How much do temples cost to build?

[TheSkepticChristian]

28 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Except in Mark -

" The Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ and confirms the truths found in the Holy Bible "
https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon?lang=eng

[JLHPROF]

19 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

" The Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ and confirms the truths found in the Holy Bible "
https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon?lang=eng

D&C 97: 10 Verily I say unto you, that it is my will that a house should be built unto me in the land of Zion, like unto the pattern which I have given you.  11 Yea, let it be built speedily, by the tithing of my people. - http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_temples/Why_does_the_Church_build_expensive_temples

The temple is a necessity to the salvation of God's children.  That is why it is just as important to build as to give to the poor.  We could stop building temples give all to the poor.  And they would have easier mortal lives and no access to blessings needed in the next.  Where is our focus?  Which should we be more willing to give up - mortal necessities or eternal necessities?

Edited December 21, 2015 by JLHPROF

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

It doesn't bother me that the church spends a lot of money in building temples, what bothers me is that our church donated 1.5 million dollars to an American museum, and donated $189,903.58 to a political campaign. I can't understand why they did that

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-clarifies-proposition-8-filing-corrects-erroneous-news-reports

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-provides-gift-to-new-american-revolution-museum

The report you cited on Prop 8 says:

"On Friday, 30 January, the Church filed the final report of its contributions (all of which were non-monetary) to the ProtectMarriage.com coalition. The report, submitted in advance of the 31 January deadline, details in-kind donations totaling $189,903.58.

"The value of the Church’s in-kind (non-monetary) contribution is less than one half of one percent of the total funds (approximately $40 million) raised for the “Yes on 8” campaign. The Church did not make any cash contribution."

I  imagine that the LDS Church authorities did not want to see SSM legalized.  So the Brethren vigorously supported the Prop 8 campaign -- in response to a request from the Roman Catholic Church.  Mormons constituted only a minuscule part of the people supporting Prop 8 (Catholics, Evangelicals, the Black churches, etc.), and the majority of California voters said "yes" to Prop 8.  

As to the Museum, the LDS Church authorities support the historical objectives of that museum (as the article you cite points out), but also "The museum, scheduled to open in late 2016, will feature objects, artifacts, artwork and manuscripts, as well as a 'Discovery Center' supported by FamilySearch."  In other words, genealogy.

[TheSkepticChristian]

21 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

The temple is a necessity to the salvation of God's children.  That is why it is just as important to build as to give to the poor.  We could stop building temples give all to the poor.  And they would have easier mortal lives and no access to blessings needed in the next.  Where is our focus?  Which should we be more willing to give up - mortal necessities or eternal necessities?

but nothing in the D&C or the Book of Mormon says that our church has to spend millions of dollars to create them. 

15 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I  imagine that the LDS Church authorities did not want to see SSM legalized.  So the Brethren vigorously supported the Prop 8 campaign -- in response to a request from the Roman Catholic Church.

I simply don't believe that corporate money in politics is right. Read Larry lessig

 

15 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

As to the Museum, the LDS Church authorities support the historical objectives of that museum (as the article you cite points out), but also "The museum, scheduled to open in late 2016, will feature objects, artifacts, artwork and manuscripts, as well as a 'Discovery Center' supported by FamilySearch."  In other words, genealogy.

that is very nice to know, but still bothers me. How is a museum going to help Genealogical Research? Museums have displays. 

Edited December 21, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[volgadon]

let museums burn, who cares about presenting the past. While we are at it, forget art galleries and libraries.

[volgadon]

There is an interesting correlation between frequent attendance in the temple and an increase in charitable activity. Essentially, the more you are engaged in temple work which is centers on helping those who cannot help themselves (and beauty focusing the mind on God and truth cannot be dismissed as a contributing factor) the more you wish to extend spiritual and material blessings to those outside it.

[JLHPROF]

14 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

but nothing in the D&C or the Book of Mormon says that our church has to spend millions of dollars to create them.

2 Nephi 5:16 And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon save it were not built of so many precious things; for they were not to be found upon the land, wherefore, it could not be built like unto Solomon’s temple. But the manner of the construction was like unto the temple of Solomon; and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine.

D&C 124:26 And send ye swift messengers, yea, chosen messengers, and say unto them: Come ye, with all your gold, and your silver, and your precious stones, and with all your antiquities; and with all who have knowledge of antiquities, that will come, may come, and bring the box tree, and the fir tree, and the pine tree, together with all the precious trees of the earth;  27 And with iron, with copper, and with brass, and with zinc, and with all your precious things of the earth; and build a house to my name, for the Most High to dwell therein.

Not sure how this is a question.

[Sevenbak]

We got nuthin' on that wascally spending Solomon and his temple.  

 

 

• 1 Chronicles 22:14- 100,000 talents of gold, 1 million talents of silver, quantities of bronze and iron too great to be weighted.
• 1 Chronicles 29:3- 3,000 talents of gold, 7,000 talents of silver from David's personal treasures.
• 1 Chronicles 29:7- 5,002.5 talents of gold, 10,000 talents of silver, 18,000 talents of bronze, 100,000 talents of iron from the leaders of Israel.
• 1 Kings 5:10- King Hiram of Tyre gave Solomon many cedar trees for the temple. (had to pay King Hiram with 20 towns in Galilee! (1 Kings 9:11) )

In total, over 108,002.5 talents of gold, 1,017,000 talents of silver, and quantities of bronze much greater than that. 

 

108,002.5 talents of gold.  One talent was approximately 75 pounds, so 108,002.5 talents would be 8,100,187.5 pounds of gold.

1,017,000 talents of silver = 76,275,000 pounds of silver.  

Excluding the bronze, and using the average current price of gold, the gold alone of Solomon's temple would have been $194,404,500,000.

The silver would have been $22,199,076,000.  

This does not include all the precious metals, bronze, iron, ivory, or cedar wood used in the temple. Building the temple took over seven years.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2015 by Sevenbak

[TheSkepticChristian]

43 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Not sure how this is a question.

still no money is mentioned. The early saints created the temples themselves. Forget it. Never mind. 

 

[strappinglad]

Sevenbak, something is odd about the figures listed. 8 million pounds of gold has a volume sufficient to cover every wall, floor and ceiling  of the temple with gold 5 inches thick. 

[Stargazer]

28 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Sevenbak, something is odd about the figures listed. 8 million pounds of gold has a volume sufficient to cover every wall, floor and ceiling  of the temple with gold 5 inches thick. 

He didn't say they covered the temple with 8 million pounds of gold.  They SPENT a huge sum of gold and silver paying for everything.  You seem to have forgotten that they didn't use Federal Reserve Notes in the days of Solomon.  They used what is called "specie", meaning actual money (gold and silver coinage or ingots), as opposed to symbolic tokens in the place of money.  Well, they probably didn't have coins, since those weren't invented until the 8th or 7th centuries BCE.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Stargazer

[Tony Frank]

Nothing is too good for our Heavenly Father.

[Sevenbak]

We could really have fun and hijack this thread to talk about King Solomon's mines.  ;-0

[omni]

11 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

 8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?

 9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.

 10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.

 11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.

Wouldn't building 4 or 5 times as many temples of modest construction be considered "good work"?  Think of all the additional ordinances that could be performed if the temples were closer to the members.

[Jeanne]

The answer to this question is....way too much. 

[Rain]

14 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

 

that is very nice to know, but still bothers me. How is a museum going to help Genealogical Research? Museums have displays. 

First,  there are many people who will visit museums,  but not anything LDS related. If they see the display their hearts may turn to their fathers and envisage them to start doing family history. 

Second,  museums more and more and not just displays. They are interactive.  (Love the science museum in San Jose! ) They are filled with learning opportunities that stimulate the minds of those that go.  If you go to the discovery center (in Salt Lake)  it is just like this and you actually do family history in a fun way.  

Edited December 21, 2015 by Rain

[The Nehor]

About $75.

 

[Robert F. Smith]

10 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

................................................................. 

I simply don't believe that corporate money in politics is right. Read Larry lessig

I understand what you are saying, but the LDS Church is a very pragmatic institution, and has always expended time and  money in political power plays (even Joseph Smith himself running for the Presidency, and using the apostles as campaign tools).  Nothing in Scripture suggests that that is wrong in any sense.  Of course, the IRS does not allow religious money to be spent for personal candidates, but does not prevent campaigning on specific issues.  Many churches, synagogues, and mosques expend a lot of money on issue campaigns now, and preach about them from the pulpit.

.................................., but still bothers me. How is a museum going to help Genealogical Research? Museums have displays. 

Most museums are very interactive generally, as with this museum.  They no longer simply have displays.  Then there is the Family Search "Discovery Center," which will allow visitors to do genealogy right there.  This is a primary objective of the Mormon faith, and we are good at it.

 

[TheSkepticChristian]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Many churches, synagogues, and mosques expend a lot of money on issue campaigns now

and that is not right. Most people cannot afford to donate $189,903.58 to a political campaign. We need a Democracy, so it means that a rich person or a powerful church shouldn't donate big money to a political campaign. 

In a democracy, political campaigns are funded by small contributions only because most people are not rich. 

Edited December 21, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[Robert F. Smith]

17 hours ago, Stargazer said:

................................................

................................they probably didn't have coins, since those weren't invented until the 8th or 7th centuries BCE.

CFR on the invention of coins.  Where and when?

[Robert F. Smith]

7 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

and that is not right. Most people cannot afford to donate $189,903.58 to a political campaign. We need a Democracy, so it means that a rich person or a powerful church shouldn't donate big money to a political campaign. 

In a democracy, political campaigns are funded by small contributions only because most people are not rich. 

As I said above, that was not a cash donation:

Quote

 

The report you cited on Prop 8 says:

"On Friday, 30 January, the Church filed the final report of its contributions (all of which were non-monetary) to the ProtectMarriage.com coalition. The report, submitted in advance of the 31 January deadline, details in-kind donations totaling $189,903.58.

"The value of the Church’s in-kind (non-monetary) contribution is less than one half of one percent of the total funds(approximately $40 million) raised for the “Yes on 8” campaign. The Church did not make any cash contribution."

 

I didn't donate any money to the Prop 8 campaign.  I donated my time and talents, as did many other members -- learning what political activity is in a democracy.  I recall the bishop's son (a high school kid) standing out there on the streetcorner with us demonstrating and learning his first lessons in practical democracy.  I think that he was uncomfortable at first, afraid that fellow HS students might drive by and see him.  Most people driving by gave us a thumbs up.

[JLHPROF]

9 hours ago, omni said:

Wouldn't building 4 or 5 times as many temples of modest construction be considered "good work"?  Think of all the additional ordinances that could be performed if the temples were closer to the members.

Maybe.  That's up to God when he chooses where he wants temples and how many.

However, according to any scripture on the subject that I can find, temples of God are to be built with all your precious things of the earth and  the workmanship is to be exceedingly fine.

 

18 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

still no money is mentioned. The early saints created the temples themselves. Forget it. Never mind.

 

You clearly don't understand the principle being shown in the scriptures about both sacrifice and materials used for ordinance work.  Or apparently how that translates into dollar money today.

God expects his saints to give their best to him first, even to the point of sacrifice of the poor (ie the widow's mite).

I find it interesting that those complaining about spending temples and not making them so fancy or expensive are advocating similar principles from scripture as Cain, Judas, etc did.

Whereas those who have no problem with expensive temples have principles practiced by Christ, Solomon, Nephi, Joseph Smith, Abel backing them up etc.

I would be worried if I fell into the first category.

[TheSkepticChristian]

49 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

As I said above, that was not a cash donation:

I didn't donate any money to the Prop 8 campaign. 

it doesn't matter, it was still $189,903.58 in value. 

I don't mind small contributions. Like I said, in a true democracy a political campaign is funded by small contributions, a big money contribution is not right in my opinion. I hope our church never again donates more than 1,500 dollars to a political campaign because it needs to be fair 

For example 

 

 

 

 

[Calm]

Quote

I hope our church never again donates more than 1,500 dollars to a political campaign because it needs to be fair 

If by "fair" you mean contribute equally to all campaigns no matter what they support, I most definitely challenge that claim.

[Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

CFR on the invention of coins.  Where and when?

You're kidding, right?  I thought you were wider read than that...

• "The first coins were developed independently in Iron Age Anatolia and Archaic Greece, India and China around the 8th and 7th centuries BCE."  -- Wikipedia: Coins: History
• And, in case Wikipedia gives you the willies, "Archaeologists and numismatic scholars are coming to an agreement that the coins were invented independently at three different locations on the eurasian continent between 700-600 BCE. They are Lydia, India and China, shown in the map below. Evidence exists for Lydian coins but only circumstantial evidence exist for the Indian and Chinese coins of this period." -- A Brief History of Coin Invention
• And, "Coins were introduced as a method of payment around the 6th or 5th century BCE. The invention of coins is still shrouded in mystery: According to Herdotous (I, 94), coins were first minted by the Lydians, while Aristotle claims that the first coins were minted by Demodike of Kyrme, the wife of King Midas of Phrygia." -- Ancient History Encyclopedia: Coinage

Does that all suffice for your CFR?

Edited December 22, 2015 by Stargazer