Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 This is going to ruffle a few feathers -- but then, that's what satire does. It might be compared to Nibley's "How to Write an Anti-Mormon Book" of a couple of generations ago. I think it deftly slices and dices behavior I see constantly on the Internet.
jkwilliams Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 This is going to ruffle a few feathers -- but then, that's what satire does.It might be compared to Nibley's "How to Write an Anti-Mormon Book" of a couple of generations ago.I think it deftly slices and dices behavior I see constantly on the Internet.Agreed, only I would argue that it such behavior isn't limited just to ex-Mormons. His first point in particular seems ironic. No one has a monopoly on behaving badly. I should know. 3
Popular Post JeremyOrbe-Smith Posted October 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted October 29, 2015 Speaking as a millennial who has given in to the temptation of sarcasm way too often, I feel like I have the necessary experience and almighty authority to hereby pronounce this kind of stuff as immature, not successful or amusing or clever as satire, and unhelpful. Does anyone seriously think that after reading this, one of the prodigal sons or daughters will be persuaded that they made the wrong choice to leave? Exmormons behave in a lot of annoyingly cliched ways ripe for parody, but jeez, are we really so partisan that we can't see comparably annoying and cliched behavior among current members? Humans are silly self-righteous mammals predisposed to cognitive errors and conspiracy theories, who are often mean to members of a different tribe of chimps. We should learn to live with our fellow primates, and that's not going to happen if one tribe doesn't take responsibility to be mature homo sapiens; the feud just turns into a cycle. Whichever side we're on, we should stop being so mean to each other. Mean not good. Mean bad. 9
Popular Post rockpond Posted October 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted October 29, 2015 This is going to ruffle a few feathers -- but then, that's what satire does. It might be compared to Nibley's "How to Write an Anti-Mormon Book" of a couple of generations ago. I think it deftly slices and dices behavior I see constantly on the Internet. His own article commits the errors that he is cautioning "Millenial Ex-Mormons" against. I guess that's what he was going for. We'd all be better off to work on showing more empathy and seeking to understand rather than criticize. 6
jkwilliams Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 His own article commits the errors that he is cautioning "Millenial Ex-Mormons" against. I guess that's what he was going for.We'd all be better off to work on showing more empathy and seeking to understand rather than criticize.We have met the enemy, and he is us. 1
Jeanne Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 His own article commits the errors that he is cautioning "Millenial Ex-Mormons" against. I guess that's what he was going for. We'd all be better off to work on showing more empathy and seeking to understand rather than criticize.Thank you. I agree. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2015 Author Posted October 29, 2015 Yeah, can't we all just get along? That is, up until the next time somebody feels disposed to bash Mormonism again. 2
jkwilliams Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Yeah, can't we all just get along?That is, up until the next time somebody feels disposed to bash Mormonism again.How does bashing ex-Mormons help? 2
rockpond Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Yeah, can't we all just get along? That is, up until the next time somebody feels disposed to bash Mormonism again. Now, ask yourself why someone feels disposed to say or do something that you feel is bashing Mormonism? And I'll ask myself why you feel that what has been said or done is bashing Mormonism. We can get there.
Jeanne Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) How does bashing ex-Mormons help?Thank you. I agree. Edited October 29, 2015 by Jeanne
Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2015 Author Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) How does bashing ex-Mormons help?Satire by definition is using humor to point out error. So, to the extent this does so, it could be argued that it is helpful. I suppose one could argue that satire is inherently evil, something to be devoutly avoided. I don't think I'm willing to go there. Edited October 29, 2015 by Scott Lloyd 1
jkwilliams Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Satire by definition is using humor to point out error. So, to the extent this does so, I could be argued that it is helpful.I suppose we could argue that satire is inherently evil, something to be devoutly avoided. I don't think I'm willing to go there.As others have noted, the error is not restricted to exmos. Satire generally doesn't come from a happy place. Again, I should know.
Calm Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 "Does anyone seriously think that after reading this, one of the prodigal sons or daughters will be persuaded that they made the wrong choice to leave?" I kind of doubt that was his intent. He is quite intelligent and wouldn't make that error, imo. He was probably just in the mood to have some fun. Not having read it yet, just having heard about it, I can't say whether or not I feel it was inappropriate. I can be quite sarcastic at times about situations I am frustrated with or just think are absurd and I can laugh when my friends or others are being sarcastic as well, but I don't generally post my sarcastic comments online beyond maybe some close friends who know that isn't the limit of my feelings toward the situations. That may make me worse than he is. Isn't the thought as bad as the act in many ways?
MiserereNobis Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) Satire is great -- even bad satire is better than low level humor. Satire is even better when people take offense at it or try to criticize it Thanks for the link and fun read. For those who didn't like it, I'd say create a satire of the Mormon apologist so we can giggle at that, too. P.S. Ambrose's Devil Dictionary is delightful fun. Peruse and enjoy! Here's a taste: MARRIAGE, n. The state or condition of a community consisting of a master, a mistress and two slaves, making in all, two.CHRISTIAN, n.. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin. hee hee! Edited October 29, 2015 by MiserereNobis 2
Tacenda Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Satire is great -- even bad satire is better than low level humor. Satire is even better when people take offense at it or try to criticize it Thanks for the link and fun read. For those who didn't like it, I'd say create a satire of the Mormon apologist so we can giggle at that, too. P.S. Ambrose's Devil Dictionary is delightful fun. Peruse and enjoy! Here's a taste: MARRIAGE, n. The state or condition of a community consisting of a master, a mistress and two slaves, making in all, two.I think ex-Mormon is made out to be a derogative label, as is apologist. They just can't win either side, so yes, someone might might want to make up satire for apologist as well.
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 I think ex mormons are free of eternal punishment as long as they still believe in a loving Heavenly Father and Jesus.
carbon dioxide Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 I think ex mormons are free of eternal punishment as long as they still believe in a loving Heavenly Father and Jesus.I don't think that simply loving the Father and Son will be enough. God expects more. Jesus said if ye love me, keep my commandments. If the LDS Church is the Lord's Church and one leaves the Lord's church, one would be disobeying the Lord which is to come unto him and do his will. If one has received a testimony of the Church by the Holy Ghost and they then reject that testimony for whatever reason to purposely leave the Church, they can expect lots of eternal punishment in the future. Joining and leaving the LDS Church is not like joining and leaving ones membership at Costco. It is a big deal and it has serious consequences. The Lord is not playing around on this. He takes this matter seriously. 1
Five Solas Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 ah, the fruits of Utah County (yes, I have extended family there). I'd offer a rebuttal to the author's irony, his sarcasm, his memes - but the guy lives in Orem and, well--I just can't bring myself to pile on. ;0) --Erik 1
Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2015 Author Posted October 29, 2015 His own article commits the errors that he is cautioning "Millenial Ex-Mormons" against. Maybe you think so, but it's not self-evident.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2015 Author Posted October 29, 2015 ah, the fruits of Utah County (yes, I have extended family there). I'd offer a rebuttal to the author's irony, his sarcasm, his memes - but the guy lives in Orem and, well--I just can't bring myself to pile on. ;0) --ErikI tend to think he could hold his own against you any day, were he so inclined. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2015 Author Posted October 29, 2015 I don't think that simply loving the Father and Son will be enough. God expects more. Jesus said if ye love me, keep my commandments. If the LDS Church is the Lord's Church and one leaves the Lord's church, one would be disobeying the Lord which is to come unto him and do his will. If one has received a testimony of the Church by the Holy Ghost and they then reject that testimony for whatever reason to purposely leave the Church, they can expect lots of eternal punishment in the future. Joining and leaving the LDS Church is not like joining and leaving ones membership at Costco. It is a big deal and it has serious consequences. The Lord is not playing around on this. He takes this matter seriously.To the extent that "eternal punishment" is a synonym for God's punishment, I agree with this. The scriptures make clear that "eternal" when applied as a descriptor for "punishment" does not mean never-ending.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2015 Author Posted October 29, 2015 As others have noted, the error is not restricted to exmos. Satire generally doesn't come from a happy place. Again, I should know.Depends on whether or not the satire conveys truth.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2015 Author Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) I think ex-Mormon is made out to be a derogative label, as is apologist. They just can't win either side, so yes, someone might might want to make up satire for apologist as well. I don't see anything inherently negative about apologist, though I grant that some might who don't like being contradicted by apologists. What term would you use as a substitute for ex-Mormon? Edited October 29, 2015 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2015 Author Posted October 29, 2015 I think Smoot did an elegant job. But as I predicted and fully expected, his piece is getting some negative responses. I expect there will be many more to come. It is axiomatic that objects of satire seldom like being satirized. 1
MiserereNobis Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 It is axiomatic that objects of satire seldom like being satirized. which is precisely why satire is so important 2
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