Church And Refugees

[Spammer]

In a different thread, someone said that it's unclear what the church could do given the complexity of the refugee situation in Europe. Pope Francis just announced a plan: every parish in Europe will host two refugee families, including the two Vatican parishes. Perhaps SLC will set up something similar for the wards in Europe?

[carbon dioxide]

I have felt that of any groups that need the most protection are the Christian and Yazidis.  A large portion refugees could and should go to Saudi Arabia and other Middle East countries.  They would have a better time meshing with the populations there.  The Christians and especially the Yazidis really have little options.  Few will want them in the region.  The Church could do what the Pope suggests.  For how long I don't know.  I am not sure how many wards are in the area affected and how much it would do but every little bit helps.

Edited September 6, 2015 by carbon dioxide

[The Nehor]

They might and they might not. I am sure that if individuals and families within the church want to help there are avenues to pursue. The Church does not have to give permission or take the lead in our choices to aid others.

[Meadowchik]

It's not that simple, though. Local law can make such things complicated.

That said, we have at least 4 new immigrant families (fleeing bad situations) in our ward here in France.

[CV75]

In a different thread, someone said that it's unclear what the church could do given the complexity of the refugee situation in Europe. Pope Francis just announced a plan: every parish in Europe will host two refugee families, including the two Vatican parishes. Perhaps SLC will set up something similar for the wards in Europe?

This "old news" (January 2014) but seems to be an ongoing effort; I suppose the article might be updated in light of current events. This seems to address efforts only in Utah, but I understand any local leader has a humanitarian aid fund to draw upon. And they would have to work in concert with local government and private agencies.

 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-community-helps-refugees-resettle-in-utah

 

I think the Church would approach the issue with the same attitude as it has immigration in the USA and would encourage government leaders to balance the elements of compassion, reverence for family, and commitment to law, recognizing as much as possible that we are all children of God.

 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/immigration-church-issues-new-statement

 

Personally, I think charity, if it can be reflected in joint government-private-religious efforts, overrides security and economic concerns, and that these concerns can still be effectively addressed.

[why me]

I have felt that of any groups that need the most protection are the Christian and Yazidis.  A large portion refugees could and should go to Saudi Arabia and other Middle East countries.  They would have a better time meshing with the populations there.  The Christians and especially the Yazidis really have little options.  Few will want them in the region.  The Church could do what the Pope suggests.  For how long I don't know.  I am not sure how many wards are in the area affected and how much it would do but every little bit helps.

On france24 the station is referring to these people as migrants and not refugees. Most are single young men in search for a better life. No one looks hungry as they cross the border into europe. Many were living in turkey. The gulf states are refusing to take these people. Most likely they consider it good that europe is getting more muslims. And you right about the christians. No matter if the war is over, they will still be a persecuted minority. The slaughter and persecution of christians has been going on for a few years now and the west has ignored it. And the west continues to do so. Eventually, when millions of muslim migramts are in europe, the reality will set in and the possible blowback will happen. But this is what happens when decisions are made based on emotion and not rational thinking. For example, the costs to health carre, education, welfare handouts etc. Most of europe is cutting back on the welfare state. For these people who are experiencing cutbacks, to see migrants receiving government funds may be hard to swallow. I spoke with someone who works for the red cross in europe. Her observation was that these young men looked good and they had expensive cell phones: iphones and samsung phones. These days it is the survival of the fittest.

 

Of course back in the day, it was the children and women that left war torn areas. The men were doing the fighting. But these days, it is the single men that are leaving and leaving the women and children behind. As these young men head to europe, who is fighting against the terrorists?

Edited September 7, 2015 by why me

[bcuzbcuz]

On france24 the station is referring to these people as migrants and not refugees. Most are single young men in search for a better life. No one looks hungry as they cross the border into europe. Many were living in turkey. The gulf states are refusing to take these people. Most likely they consider it good that europe is getting more muslims. And you right about the christians. No matter if the war is over, they will still be a persecuted minority. The slaughter and persecution of christians has been going on for a few years now and the west has ignored it. And the west continues to do so. Eventually, when millions of muslim migramts are in europe, the reality will set in and the possible blowback will happen. But this is what happens when decisions are made based on emotion and not rational thinking. For example, the costs to health carre, education, welfare handouts etc. Most of europe is cutting back on the welfare state. For these people who are experiencing cutbacks, to see migrants receiving government funds may be hard to swallow. I spoke with someone who works for the red cross in europe. Her observation was that these young men looked good and they had expensive cell phones: iphones and samsung phones. These days it is the survival of the fittest.

 

Of course back in the day, it was the children and women that left war torn areas. The men were doing the fighting. But these days, it is the single men that are leaving and leaving the women and children behind. As these young men head to europe, who is fighting against the terrorists?

Is that really what France24 is saying? That the people entering Europe (France) are "migrants not refugees"? I suggest then that you access either Euronews (a very good news source), BBC, Al Jazeera (Europe) or Sky News. Your representation of the refugee situation is fundamentally misleading.

[why me]

Is that really what France24 is saying? That the people entering Europe (France) are "migrants not refugees"? I suggest then that you access either Euronews (a very good news source), BBC, Al Jazeera (Europe) or Sky News. Your representation of the refugee situation is fundamentally misleading.

Not just france24. But also sections of the american media:

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/world/europe/pope-calls-on-europeans-to-house-refugees.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

 

 

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/syrians-fleeing-europe-treated-worse-dogs-article-1.2350552

 

Take a look at the pictures. All young men with a sprinkling of children and women.  Where are the persecuted christians? Also, if these young men cannot find work in europe (the unemployment rate is quite high), what will be the consequences? We are looking at severe problems in the future as many could drift toward radical islam or become islamists or become marginalized. But such is life when the emotional takes the place of the rational when making decisions.

 

If the Turkish border is so porous, one must consider just how many ISIS people are among them. There are no controls. Also, among the migrants are kurds who have been living in Turkey without jobs. These are young men. Thus, when the border is open and germany gives cart blanche many would join the line., I have seen them with iphones and samsung phones, calling home to tell their folks that all is okay. The great majority are young men who are quite healthy and sturdy looking. Back in the day, it were the women and children who would leave and the men would stay. But not now. Just the opposite. Now of course, since europe is now open, young male migrants will make up the majority of the people searching for work and a better life.

 

Sadly such migrants paint a more opportunistic picture but of course, there are geniune refugees too. But it is not easy when a bus pulls up to the red cross and out comes 90 young men and one family. (such is my experience)

 

So in this situation, what can the lds church do? How tolerant of christians is this group of young men heading into europe? Who are they? What did they do when in syria or in turkey? Did they fight with ISIS? Were they persecuting  christians, burning their churches? No one really knows who they are. Also, many are coming from albania, kosovo, africa etc. It is a nuthouse because of germany's open invitation. Here is a quote from the NYT:

 

Two men held out smartphones showing videos of the camp where they had been held near the Serbian border. Hundreds of people squatted in the dust while the police tossed sandwiches and bottles of water to them over a barbed-wire fence.

 

There server is in Turkey where they must have been living.

 

 

Refugees and migrants arrive onboard the Tera Jet passenger ship at the port of Piraeus, near Athens, Greece on Sunday

 

Edited September 7, 2015 by why me

[bcuzbcuz]

Not just france24. But also sections of the american media:

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/world/europe/pope-calls-on-europeans-to-house-refugees.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

 

 

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/syrians-fleeing-europe-treated-worse-dogs-article-1.2350552

 

Take a look at the pictures. All young men with a sprinkling of children and women.  Where are the persecuted christians? Also, if these young men cannot find work in europe (the unemployment rate is quite high), what will be the consequences? We are looking at severe problems in the future as many could drift toward radical islam or become islamists or become marginalized. But such is life when the emotional takes the place of the rational when making decisions.

 

If the Turkish border is so porous, one must consider just how many ISIS people are among them. There are no controls. Also, among the migrants are kurds who have been living in Turkey without jobs. These are young men. Thus, when the border is open and germany gives cart blanche many would join the line., I have seen them with iphones and samsung phones, calling home to tell their folks that all is okay. The great majority are young men who are quite healthy and sturdy looking. Back in the day, it were the women and children who would leave and the men would stay. But not now. Just the opposite. Now of course, since europe is now open, young male migrants will make up the majority of the people searching for work and a better life.

 

Sadly such migrants paint a more opportunistic picture but of course, there are geniune refugees too. But it is not easy when a bus pulls up to the red cross and out comes 90 young men and one family. (such is my experience)

 

So in this situation, what can the lds church do? How tolerant of christians is this group of young men heading into europe? Who are they? What did they do when in syria or in turkey? Did they fight with ISIS? Were they persecuting  christians, burning their churches? No one really knows who they are. Also, many are coming from albania, kosovo, africa etc. It is a nuthouse because of germany's open invitation.

 

Refugees and migrants arrive onboard the Tera Jet passenger ship at the port of Piraeus, near Athens, Greece on Sunday

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One picture says So Very Little. If I only knew how to post pictures I would show you from todays BBC.com site. The title says "About 11,000 more immigrants are expected to arrive in Germany on Monday. Look at the people in those pictures. It´s all families and some children by themselves, Listen to what German Chancellor Angela Merkel says.

 

Check out the pictures on Euronews.com.

 

Again, I state. You are sadly misinformed.

 

Then you pitch your "Ooooh, I´m scared." message about ISIS smuggling in young Islamist. Tell you what, I live here in Europe. I´m a volunteer with the Red Cross to teach newly arrived adult refugees basic Swedish and how to navigate the minefields of Swedish bureaucracy. There are also crowded classes teaching beginner´s Swedish to small children and young children.

 

If a few ISIS nut cases sneak into Sweden, well that´s a risk we have to take. We can´t turn away babies and children and struggling parents and young men because we are afraid of the fact that the war in Syria has radicalized some youth. 

 

My wife and I have both contributed time and money since this crisis began. It´s easier for me since I´m a pensioner. We have both marched in demonstrations to get Sweden´s government to make our borders freer and more open. This year Sweden has taken 20,000 Syrians and 50,000 total seeking asylum. We think it is not enough. (Sweden has a population of 9 million but huge areas of land sparsely populated)

 

Maybe your news sources have an agenda of their own. You must admit that America´s political showcasing is rabidly anti-immigration. 

 

What should the church be doing? Everything possible to lessen the suffering of these thousands, maybe millions of refugees. We have a saying here in Sweden. "If there´s room in your heart, then there´s room in your home." (Please forgive my translation. The saying is slightly more crude)

Edited September 7, 2015 by bcuzbcuz

[why me]

One picture says So Very Little. If I only knew how to post pictures I would show you from todays BBC.com site. The title says "About 11,000 more immigrants are expected to arrive in Germany on Monday. Look at the people in those pictures. It´s all families and some children by themselves, Listen to what German Chancellor Angela Merkel says.

 

Check out the pictures on Euronews.com.

 

Again, I state. You are sadly misinformed.

 

Then you pitch your "Ooooh, I´m scared." message about ISIS smuggling in young Islamist. Tell you what, I live here in Europe. I´m a volunteer with the Red Cross to teach newly arrived adult refugees basic Swedish and how to navigate the minefields of Swedish bureaucracy. There are also crowded classes teaching beginner´s Swedish to small children and young children.

 

If a few ISIS nut cases sneak into Sweden, well that´s a risk we have to take. We can´t turn away babies and children and struggling parents and young men because we are afraid of the fact that the war in Syria has radicalized some youth. 

 

My wife and I have both contributed time and money since this crisis began. It´s easier for me since I´m a pensioner. We have both marched in demonstrations to get Sweden´s government to make our borders freer and more open. This year Sweden has taken 20,000 Syrians and 50,000 total seeking asylum. We think it is not enough. (Sweden has a population of 9 million but huge areas of land sparsely populated)

 

Maybe your news sources have an agenda of their own. You must admit that America´s political showcasing is rabidly anti-immigration. 

 

What should the church be doing? Everything possible to lessen the suffering of these thousands, maybe millions of refugees. We have a saying here in Sweden. "If there´s room in your heart, then there´s room in your home." (Please forgive my translation. The saying is slightly more crude)

I think that I did say that there are refugees among them. But the great majority of people are single men who are now being referred to as migrants. If you live in europe you will know that it is impossible for all these men to find work. The EU economy is doing very badly. No room for migrants who happen to be single men. Marginalization, unemployment, etc will grip quite a few EU countries since it is private business who does the hiring and quite a few companies are laying off their workers. It is a disaster in the making.

 

From the NYT:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2015/09/06/world/europe/migrants-on-the-move-across-europe/s/20150907MIGRANTS-slide-TL4I.html

 

The borders are open. Migrants are coming through. And there is no work. What should the church do in Europe when so many europeans are living in poverty too?

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/314543/Spain-is-a-picture-of-poverty-as-the-people-turn-their-backs-on-the-euro

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/oct/28/poverty-and-education-a-lost-decade-for-spains-children

http://yle.fi/uutiset/finlands_poor_at_nearly_one_million/7437980

http://www.indexmundi.com/denmark/population_below_poverty_line.html

 

And the situation of migrants in Europe is terrible. Here is sweden:

 

http://www.capx.co/swedish-welfare-model-traps-immigrants-in-poverty/

 

It remains to be seen if these challenges can be traversed in Sweden or not. So far the answer unfortunately seems to be no. If the combination of a high rate of immigration and a failure to integrate continues, the long-term finances of the Swedish welfare model could be at risk. The high-spending model is simply not fit to cope with the challenges of integration.

 

 

I can go on and on. Europe is not the land of milk and honey.

Edited September 7, 2015 by why me

[rodheadlee]

I think that I did say that there are refugees among them. But the great majority of people are single men who are now being referred to as migrants. If you live in europe you will know that it is impossible for all these men to find work. The EU economy is doing very badly. No room for migrants who happen to be single men. Marginalization, unemployment, etc will grip quite a few EU countries since it is private business who does the hiring and quite a few companies are laying off their workers. It is a disaster in the making.

 

From the NYT:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2015/09/06/world/europe/migrants-on-the-move-across-europe/s/20150907MIGRANTS-slide-TL4I.html

 

The borders are open. Migrants are coming through. And there is no work. What should the church do in Europe when so many europeans are living in poverty too?

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/314543/Spain-is-a-picture-of-poverty-as-the-people-turn-their-backs-on-the-euro

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/oct/28/poverty-and-education-a-lost-decade-for-spains-children

http://yle.fi/uutiset/finlands_poor_at_nearly_one_million/7437980

http://www.indexmundi.com/denmark/population_below_poverty_line.html

 

And the situation of migrants in Europe is terrible. Here is sweden:

 

http://www.capx.co/swedish-welfare-model-traps-immigrants-in-poverty/

 

It remains to be seen if these challenges can be traversed in Sweden or not. So far the answer unfortunately seems to be no. If the combination of a high rate of immigration and a failure to integrate continues, the long-term finances of the Swedish welfare model could be at risk. The high-spending model is simply not fit to cope with the challenges of integration.

 

 

I can go on and on. Europe is not the land of milk and honey.

What would you suggest? How do you know these men are single? How do you know they are not going to send for the family once they get settled?

[bcuzbcuz]

If you live in europe you will know that it is impossible for all these men to find work.

I'm an immigrant to Sweden. I just happened to immigrate in a more favourable time. Work will be hard to find. Is it any easier where you live? But scarcity of jobs will not justify turning people away.

 

http://www.capx.co

It remains to be seen if these challenges can be traversed in Sweden or not. So far the answer unfortunately seems to be no. If the combination of a high rate of immigration and a failure to integrate continues, the long-term finances of the Swedish welfare model could be at risk. The high-spending model is simply not fit to cope with the challenges of integration.

 

Now you're quoting capx.co? Any more right leaning and it would topple. Try to find some source for your information that hasn't already a prejudiced before it even begins to look at a question.

 

I can go on and on. Europe is not the land of milk and honey.

Land of milk and honey??? You're joking, right? (If you believe the US is the "land of milk and honey" we can cut our losses and discontinue this discussion now)

Sweden isn't a land of milk and honey, but that doesn't mean we turn our backs on people running (sometimes walking without shoes) from threats to their lives.

"If there's room in our heart, there is room in our house."

[bcuzbcuz]

What would you suggest? How do you know these men are single? How do you know they are not going to send for the family once they get settled?

Thank you. I´ve seen many such cases.

My wife fled Chilé from the tyranny of Pinochet in the late 70´s. We can do no less than provide sanctuary for those who now seek safety.

If a single man sends for his family,? fantastic.

[bcuzbcuz]

More walls?

You´re actually dead on right. Hungary is building walls and is so afraid that refugees will jump train in their country that they are sealing trains bound for Germany..

[why me]

I'm an immigrant to Sweden. I just happened to immigrate in a more favourable time. Work will be hard to find. Is it any easier where you live? But scarcity of jobs will not justify turning people away.

 

Now you're quoting capx.co? Any more right leaning and it would topple. Try to find some source for your information that hasn't already a prejudiced before it even begins to look at a question.

 

Land of milk and honey??? You're joking, right? (If you believe the US is the "land of milk and honey" we can cut our losses and discontinue this discussion now)

Sweden isn't a land of milk and honey, but that doesn't mean we turn our backs on people running (sometimes walking without shoes) from threats to their lives.

"If there's room in our heart, there is room in our house."

I dont believe that anywhere  these days there is a land of milk and honey. But many of these men do think so. Big disappointment awaits them.  If they have wives and family, they are in turkey. Do you think that this   number of  men began their journey in syria, marching through ISIS lines, rebel lines, government lines and kurdish lines? And then crossing the border into turkey? They are well fed young men. They were in turkey hanging around for quite awhile. Rather safe. But with open borders and no work, who wants to stay in turkey? So, off they go. If all these men will send for families, the problem will only get larger. 

 

The far right party is the most popular party in sweden at the moment. And they will gain in popularity. The swedish goverinment is busing migrants to haparanda and telling them to cross into finland. Such is life. No time to be emotional....just rational thinking is needed. The sweden of Olaf Palmer is gone.

[CV75]

In a different thread, someone said that it's unclear what the church could do given the complexity of the refugee situation in Europe. Pope Francis just announced a plan: every parish in Europe will host two refugee families, including the two Vatican parishes. Perhaps SLC will set up something similar for the wards in Europe?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865565323/LDS-Charities-gives-million-dollar-humanitarian-effort-for-Syrian-refugees.html?pg=all

 

I think the Church will work on this level with governments willing to work with us. This is made possible (financially) because individual members heed the Lord's call to help the poor and needy.

[why me]

What would you suggest? How do you know these men are single? How do you know they are not going to send for the family once they get settled?

No ring on the finger. Also, it would be impossible to get a family out of syria. Too many factions of fighters. So, they must be in turkey, safe and sound. See my point? Most are migrants.  And  what man  would leave their family in such a situation as exists in syria?

 

Why Me has been removed for politicizing the thread. The prior thread on this topic didn't last long and this was probably won't either.

[bcuzbcuz]

No ring on the finger. Also, it would be impossible to get a family out of syria. Too many factions of fighters. So, they must be in turkey, safe and sound. See my point? Most are migrants. And what man would leave their family in such a situation as exists in syria?

"And what man would leave their family in such a situation as exists in syria?" I suggest you view any of Hans Rosling´s superb videos on YouTube. Hans Rosling is a professor (he calls himself a teacher) who clearly and succinctly explains difficult issues.

Hans Rosling: "How Not To Be Ignorant About the World"

"Don´t Use the News Media to Understand the World"

"Religions and Babies"

"The Best Stats You´ve Ever Seen"

"200 Countries, 200 Years, 4 Minutes, The Joy of Stats"

"Why Boat Refugees Don´t Fly"

I just watched Hans Rosling explain the last of these, "Why Boat Refugees Don´t Fly". A airplane ticket to Sweden costs less than $200 USD, but a smuggler takes around $2,000 USD for a place on a leaky boat.

A refugee cannot buy an airplane ticket because airlines don´t allow refugees on board. If they permit someone on board and the country where the plane lands does not accept the submission of refugee status, the airline must pay the flight back, plus the cost of living in a refugee camp. The total cost can be $5,000 dollars or more. So airlines just say No.

Do countries refuse refugee status? YES.

Sweden changed its law, TODAY, to not allow municipalities to say no to refugee status to families from Syria. Prior to today it could take 2 years or more for persons to get refugee status. Sounds straightforward. But if you were fleeing a country at war, how would you prove you came from that country? 99% of the people coming to Sweden do not have any official paperwork from their country, such as a driver´s license or a passport.

Edited September 7, 2015 by bcuzbcuz

[bcuzbcuz]

I throw out a challenge.

What if the US became embroiled in a war? A war that splits the country into a number of factions, fighting a civil war. But the war is not like the US civil war of the 1860´s. There are few "borders" or "boundaries". No one is ever completely sure who the enemy is from day to day because there are no uniforms, except for those from a weak central government.

Half the population of the country feels unsafe, never knowing who will attack the next day. Half the population starts moving, trying to find safety with relatives or people of similar beliefs. The central government sees the movement of people as a threat and bombs areas of the country once thought of as loyal.

Not really knowing where to turn you take your family to Canada. You vehicle breaks down, many other vehicles stuffed with passengers pass by but then run out of gas. The roads and highways become flooded with people walking, carrying with them all their possessions they can manage. Food and water are hard to come by. Some people along the way share of what they have, still others steal what you carry.

Canada doesn´t welcome you with open arms. It´s borders are already swamped with millions of people in similar conditions. You are herded to a refugee tent camp but food and water are scarce nevertheless. Living in tents doesn´t feel safe. There are arguments and fights around you every day. Gangs take over the distribution of food. You worry for the safety of your family. Even the weather is a threat, winter is fast approaching.

Europe proclaims they can take 100,000 refugees, but only people with work skills they need. Your trade isn´t one of them. You try to get an interview with one of the European agents but gangs block the entrances and demand money or goods before you can pass.

The only country welcoming Americans is China. You hear of someone from a nearby group that wants $10,000 for passage on a boat that will take your family far from this hell hole of a tent city in Canada.

Somehow you manage to scrape together enough money to make the trip. You got a good amount of cash for your passport and your driver´s license, most people in the camp have never owned a passport. You gather your wife and children and hurriedly pack what valuables you have left.

The boat trip itself is a whole other story of hell, but you finally make it to China. You end up in another tent refugee camp, not unlike the one you left in Canada. China has stiffened its rules for immigrant refugees and you have to prove you are a victim of the civil war in the US. Hordes of young men, some Canadian, some from factions fighting in the US war, have smuggled themselves into the refugee camps.

Finally, you get an interview to explain how you came to be in this camp. If you can tell your story well enough you might be moved into temporary housing where you might find work and maybe your children will be able to get into school.

But you need to prove you´re American. The interviewer doesn´t speak English, he comes across as partly bored by the task at hand and partly aggressive because he´s seen so many who have told convincing lies about who they are. You have no paperwork, no official papers. In the rush to take your family to safety you never thought of taking employment records. Along the way, even family photos have been stolen.

The interviewer calls in a translator. He speaks a Scottish dialect of English you´ve never heard before. He uses slang expressions you do not understand. He doesn´t understand some of your mid-west American expressions, but most of all, he´s not buying that you´re an American. You sound Canadian to him, so when he translates he twists some of the information to make it unfavorable to you.

Here´s the challenge. Prove you´re an American from the US and from an area that was under threat of life or death. Can you do it?

[HappyJackWagon]

 

This "old news" (January 2014) but seems to be an ongoing effort; I suppose the article might be updated in light of current events. This seems to address efforts only in Utah, but I understand any local leader has a humanitarian aid fund to draw upon. And they would have to work in concert with local government and private agencies.

In my experience this is no longer correct, at least outside of Utah.

 

2 years ago, mid-end of the year, the church changed it's budgeting for humanitarian aid through local congregations. It used to be that each ward had access to make 2-3 $1000 humanitarian aid donations to food pantries, shelters etc, per year. But this changed in 2012-2013. Instead of each ward in our stake having access to make 2-3 donations, the entire REGION of 6-7 stakes now has 2-3 donations they can make. The ward can apply for 1 of those regional grants similar to how a local business office might apply to their corporate offices to make a donation.

 

This was a huge deal at the time because we had working relationships with 3 food pantries who expected donations each holiday season but suddenly we had cut them off without any notice. Instead of $1000 to each of our 3 groups we made 1 $500 donation out of fast offerings before we got our wrists slapped by the Stake.

 

*It's possible this was only a Regional budgeting issue, not church-wide, but the policy has persisted each year since.

[rodheadlee]

No ring on the finger. Also, it would be impossible to get a family out of syria. Too many factions of fighters. So, they must be in turkey, safe and sound. See my point? Most are migrants.  And  what man  would leave their family in such a situation as exists in syria?

 

Why Me has been removed for politicizing the thread. The prior thread on this topic didn't last long and this was probably won't either.

Yeah, because i always wear my jewelry when I visit  foreign countries.