Teancum Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 I concur. And I respect your position. I hope you give the Gospel another chance some day. Thanks, -SmacAre you willing to give it a chance that the LDS gospel is not what it claims?
Russell C McGregor Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 I have never engaged in defamation or slander of anyone in the church or out of it. Really? Never? Are you sure?
Kenngo1969 Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Scott has trouble dealing with things that may challenge him. Thus he ignores or kicks the can down the road.No, he doesn't have as much trouble doing that as you might suggest ... provided the people doing the challenging are acting in good faith. With due respect, often, there's ample room for doubt on that score. 1
Teancum Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Scott, you haven't really arrived at that sty until John accuses you of encouraging him to commit suicide.Scott, you haven't really arrived at that sty until John accuses you of encouraging him to commit suicide.Scott, you haven't really arrived at that sty until John accuses you of encouraging him to commit suicide.Ahh the wondrous Russell swoops in with his typical polemics.How Christ like of you. Regards
Russell C McGregor Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Ahh the wondrous Russell swoops in with his typical polemics.How Christ like of you.Regards If by "typical polemics" you mean facts, then you are right.
jkwilliams Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Ahh the wondrous Russell swoops in with his typical polemics.How Christ like of you.Regards I am not going to get into another discussion of a misunderstanding he and I had 10 years ago. It's in the past, and I plan on keeping it there.
Russell C McGregor Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 I am not going to get into another discussion of a misunderstanding he and I had 10 years ago. It's in the past, and I plan on keeping it there. If you use "misunderstanding" as a synonym for conscious falsehood, then you may be right. Apart from that, I agree that it is in the past. But the past is not "never." Sort of by definition.
Teancum Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 If by "typical polemics" you mean facts, then you are right.No Russll facts are clearly not important to you. I have watched you for years,Defamation of your opponents...that is high on your list of priorities.
Teancum Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 No, he doesn't have as much trouble doing that as you might suggest ... provided the people doing the challenging are acting in good faith. With due respect, often, there's ample room for doubt on that score.I guess it is a matter of perspective and view points.
Teancum Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 If you use "misunderstanding" as a synonym for conscious falsehood, then you may be right. Apart from that, I agree that it is in the past. But the past is not "never." Sort of by definition.Thus my case and point.Regards Russell, regards.
Russell C McGregor Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 No Russll facts are clearly not important to you. I have watched you for years, Then your observation is defective. Facts are important to me. Defamation of your opponents...that is high on your list of priorities. And yet right now, you are the one defaming. Funny, that. 1
jkwilliams Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Thus my case and point.Regards Russell, regards. My recollection is that Russell and I agreed we had seriously misread each other on a very dark day for me 10 years ago. I guess he sees it differently. All I can do is move on.
ERayR Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Are you willing to give it a chance that the LDS gospel is not what it claims? I have already been through that. A long time ago.
Kenngo1969 Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 ...Most people feel something in the range of mildly irritated to outright offended when they are told by Mormons that their Church is false and that in order to please God, they need to leave their Church, religious community, and cultural heritage and join Mormonism. It's the same natural reaction that Mormons feel when they are told they should leave Mormonism. But I would think Mormons would have more sympathy when somebody says that both staying and leaving are honorable choices, as long as you are following your heart.Yep, that's what we tell them, all right: "You're wrong, and you have to join us to be right." And, "I know you have some ersatz fruit there, but it's actually kinda thorny and thistly; and some ersatz bread there, but it's actually kinda stony; and some ersatz fish there, but it's actually kinda serpenty." If only President Gordon B. Hinckley (and I think President Brigham Young, and maybe others before President Hinckley) had said something like, "Bring all of the good that you have, and let us see if we can add to it." Sigh! If only! https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/toward-interreligious-oneness/ 1
ERayR Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Ahh the wondrous Russell swoops in with his typical polemics.How Christ like of you.Regards With all due respect your halo seems to be tangled in your horns an awful lot.
jkwilliams Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 With all due respect your halo seems to be tangled in your horns an awful lot. He just needs to do what I've done: get rid of the halo. Problem solved. 2
Teancum Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Then your observation is defective. Facts are important to me. And yet right now, you are the one defaming.Funny, that.No Russell no defamation.Just dealing in facts,The wicked take the truth to be hard.
Teancum Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) With all due respect your halo seems to be tangled in your horns an awful lot.With all due respect your certianly that your have the truth comes accords as dogmatically arrogant. Edited July 21, 2015 by Teancum
Teancum Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 He just needs to do what I've done: get rid of the halo. Problem solved. No halo here.I can admit that I may be wrong so unlike so many posters here.
Teancum Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) I have already been through that. A long time ago.I am happy for you . But my question was not submitted to you. Edited July 21, 2015 by Teancum
Kenngo1969 Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 ==I am also reminded of similar remarks made by Richard Dutcher when he was exiting the Church a few years back. Specifically, he said "The past few years have been very difficult for me. I’ve been trying to continue my journey toward God while carrying a boat on my back. I hope no one will take offense at this metaphor. I’m not saying that all of us have to leave the boat of Mormonism behind. Many of you will arrive Home in these boats, I’m sure. But, for some unknown reason, our mutual Father in Heaven requires that I take another route." Uh . . . no. I don't think God works this way. (Another brief observation: Elsewhere in his parting letter, Mr. Dutcher extols the virtues of "really expensive Irish beer" and Lapsang Souchong tea. I suppose God gave him his own unique Word of Wisdom. Convenient, that.) ... It seems like this pattern is in evidence again. Thanks, -Smac And, while anytime I hear that someone has become disaffected from or has left the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I'm not going to trot out the "Oh, they were just looking for an excuse to sin" bit, Mr. Dutcher doesn't do any favors for the disaffected in extolling his (newly-acquired) taste for things formerly forbidden.
Kenngo1969 Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) No halo here.I can admit that I may be wrong so unlike so many posters here.Admitting someone is wrong is one thing (I have no problem doing that, and I suspect many (though admittedly not all) of those you indict have less of a problem doing it than you think). Suffering oneself or one's beliefs to be misrepresented (often to the point of caricature) and suffering one's positions to be mischaracterized, on the other hand, are different things entirely, and those they do have a problem with ... however much you might think they should simply suffer such things gladly. Edited July 21, 2015 by Kenngo1969
jkwilliams Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 And, while anytime I hear that someone has become disaffected from or has left the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I'm not going to trot out the "Oh, they were just looking for an excuse to sin" bit, Mr. Dutcher doesn't do any favors for the disaffected in extolling his (newly-acquired) taste for things formerly forbidden. I don't have a problem with him enjoying a good beer. Why not? It's pretty clear it wasn't the driving motivation for him to leave the church. After my "shelf" came crashing down, nothing changed for me at all for at least 6-8 months. Then one day, a coworker brought me a mocha and said, "You can have coffee, now, can't you?" I hadn't even thought of it. So, did I leave so I could enjoy coffee? No, but I do enjoy it on occasion.
ttribe Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Scott, you haven't really arrived at that sty until John accuses you of encouraging him to commit suicide. What possible benefit to the ongoing discussion in this thread could bringing up this very old issue once again serve? This is unconscionable. Edited July 21, 2015 by ttribe 2
Kenngo1969 Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 With all due respect your certianly that your have the truth comes accords as dogmatically arrogant.If someone is uncertain about something, he should either make peace with the uncertainty or he should follow the Alma 32 formula until he becomes more certain. Whatever you're certain about (or not), no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. I can't speak for anyone else here, but if you tell me, "I believe ..." (or even "I want to believe ...") or "I think ..." or "I'm not certain, but ..." I'm going to conclude that we're on pretty much the same path (even if we're at different places thereon) and wish you well in the journey. But whatever challenges you have in your faith, they're up to you, to God, and, perhaps, to your friends, family, leaders and teachers to help you resolve. No one can make you feel inferior without your consent, no matter how many times they say, "I know ..." or what they say it about. And since many of the experiences we're trying to describe transcend description anyway, the language we use to try to describe them is irrelevant. At bottom, even if someone says, "I believe" while someone else says "I know," they're really, in essence, saying the same thing: "This principle of the Restored Gospel works because it has borne good fruit in my life."
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