Church Members Are Completely Overwhelmed

[strappinglad]

Too often it comes from so many trying to do so much with only their wits to guide them....they seek not the aide and blessing of heaven. Too often we view or callings as a 2nd or 3rd job. Without service the Saints grow weak...I have health problems and yearly surgeries and procedures (3 more in the next 2 months). As a result I hold not callings, everyone understands my many absences, yet my testimony and faith are the collateral damage, and I fear for my soul! I will take the crushing weight of service over the fatal weight of being a "service project". Those who serve me whatch their souls expand, while I see mine awash on the ragged rocks and shoals of the sea of eternity. I just pray I survive it!

PaPa , you have over the years blessed the lives of others. " For every thing there is a season ". I'm sure you are grateful for all the service that has been rendered for you. If I have any idea about you I suspect you are like most men who have had much responsibility and some control over events for much of their career. They hate being a burden and not really in control of their own circumstances. I know I would do all I could to avoid such a situation. That said, the saying,"  let go and let God " comes to mind . Allowing others to serve you is in itself a service to others. My hopes for a successful outcome to all your ' procedures ' . Hang in there and keep a sense of humor. Some days it's the only thing that can push back the black dog .

[Meadowchik]

Hello auteur55...

This must be a ward thing, and your ward leadership.... to me it sounds insane, and I'm surprised your members are putting up with it... Scheduling an assignment on a week day for a working person IS insane and I'd not do it... and not feel guilty

Are you a small ward where there's not enough members to fulfill the necessary callings so that it becomes necessary to have more than one calling? 

I was overwhelmed just reading your post about all the meetings, etc., If you are hearing complaints from numerous members, why not talk to the bishop?  Who cares if you get a "reputation?"   

I want and need my home teachers, and appreciate my visiting tearchers, but I don't want anyone else calling for an appt.  I'm a big girl... if I need help or more spiritual contact, I'LL decide and call my home teachers...

People should be joyful in living and serving within the gospel... not feeling "guilt" and like they can't speak up... I see this as an impending disaster where members will start dropping out entirely unless something changes soon... 

 

GG

 

The disaster can happen in more ways than one, too. Some seek escape through suicide.

 

On another note, this kind of situation may sometimes be why some non-members in Utah feel completely left out of their neighborhoods, etc..., because the Church members literally have nothing organic about their lives: no moment is free, everything is filled with the mandatory duties of family, home, work, and church.

 

I remember in 2004 we lived in a Utah family ward instead of student ward for a summer.  My husband was leaving for work one morning when he was suddenly hit by pain from a kidney stone.  After the ambulance came and got him, my visiting teacher whom I'd called came to watch my kids so I could join him at the hospital.  I vividly recall her walking down the sidewalk to me.  Her weariness and exhaustion were palpable. It was mental and physical and written all over her in her body language. I think that if I saw that now I'd know how and what to say, but at the time I rushed to the ER once she was there.

 

I wonder how she is now. I'd be half-surprised to find out that she is alive and well.

[Meadowchik]

I know everyone is being very sympathetic here so maybe it's just me, but I can't help feeling that there's a bit of exaggeration going on in this story. 

 

On what feels like a very busy week I figure I can put about six hours into my calling.  Half of that on Sunday not including the three hour block.  On a not so busy week maybe an hour.  With the amount of service that bishops and stake presidents perform I figure this really isn't very much at all. 

 

I like having things related to church to do on week nights.  It helps remind me that the church isn't something I belong to on Sunday only. 

 

Having and fulfilling a calling sets an example for my children. 

 

My wife and I try to support each other in our callings.  We try not to place demands on one another that would make it difficult to perform an assignment.

 

I am blessed to have children that can take care of themselves if a parent is not at home.  Church leaders are taught to be sensitive to family circumstances when extending callings.  I've always found this to be the case.  We've never been asked to take on callings that interfere with our family life.  At times assignments need to be turned down because of family obligations, but for the most part if I want to do something I can find the time to do it.

 

I've never heard of anyone being asked to fulfill a welfare assignment during their work hours.  Daytime welfare assignments are typically filled by individuals who are retired or work nights.  I'm even aware of some bishops asking individuals who are out of work and receiving assistance from the church to serve at the cannery or other such places.  This seems appropriate.

 

I've rarely had the need to meet with anyone so badly that it couldn't wait a week or so when schedules worked out better.

 

On a normal week, six hours in a calling would be near too much for my husband.  He commutes 5 hours to work, so when he is home, time is precious. 

 

The OP is a single dad.  I would easily imagine that duties related to parenting and taking care of the home could make his schedule comparable to that of my husband.  And it's not just the scheduling here which seems like a problem, but the pressure.  If an active sister you've called has to fend you off from coming for such a visit you've been told you have to make, there really may be an issue of excess emanating from the ward or stake leadership. IMO.

 

Edited July 15, 2015 by Meadowchik

[Meadowchik]

Too often it comes from so many trying to do so much with only their wits to guide them....they seek not the aide and blessing of heaven. Too often we view or callings as a 2nd or 3rd job. Without service the Saints grow weak...I have health problems and yearly surgeries and procedures (3 more in the next 2 months). As a result I hold not callings, everyone understands my many absences, yet my testimony and faith are the collateral damage, and I fear for my soul! I will take the crushing weight of service over the fatal weight of being a "service project". Those who serve me whatch their souls expand, while I see mine awash on the ragged rocks and shoals of the sea of eternity. I just pray I survive it!

 

I feel for you and your health issues. 

 

However, it should not have to be a choice between "crushing weight of service over the fatal weight of being a "service project"."

 

Being the service project isn't a "fatal" situation, either.

 

It sounds like you are putting an all-important emphasis on church service.  The problem with this is, church service is not salvation.  If church service is the only thing that expands one's soul, something imo is wrong and off the mark.

[Tacenda]

I feel for you and your health issues. 

 

However, it should not have to be a choice between "crushing weight of service over the fatal weight of being a "service project"."

 

Being the service project isn't a "fatal" situation, either.

 

It sounds like you are putting an all-important emphasis on church service.  The problem with this is, church service is not salvation.  If church service is the only thing that expands one's soul, something imo is wrong and off the mark.

I agree, and service can be more than physical labor. How about him calling the lonely, homebound or widowed? I should talk, but think Pa Pa would be a welcome caller in my home. Plus if all he did was read his many poems he's written that would be enough. In fact a fun conversation and kind words beats a meal dropped off etc. Pa Pa has way more to offer than he's willing to admit.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Tacenda

[Meadowchik]

I Agree, and service can be more than physical labor. How about him calling the lonely, homebound or widowed? I should talk, but think Pa Pa would be a welcome caller in my home. Plus if all he did was read his many poems he's written that would be enough. In fact a fun conversation and kind words beats a meal dropped off etc. Pa Pa has way more to offer than he's willing to admit.

 

Yes.

 

And the spiritual can also be found in quiet reflection and devotion in doing mundane ordinary things.  Doing the laundry, preparing food, in courteous driving, in just seeing people you pass in daily activities. 

 

I'm very glad someone not new to the board, unlike me, came to remind Pa Pa about the rich contribution he makes in his own way! Thank you, Tacenda!

[Avatar4321]

I Agree, and service can be more than physical labor. How about him calling the lonely, homebound or widowed? I should talk, but think Pa Pa would be a welcome caller in my home. Plus if all he did was read his many poems he's written that would be enough. In fact a fun conversation and kind words beats a meal dropped off etc. Pa Pa has way more to offer than he's willing to admit.

Amen

[ksfisher]

 

  If an active sister you've called has to fend you off from coming for such a visit you've been told you have to make, there really may be an issue of excess emanating from the ward or stake leadership. IMO.

It seems like the easy solution to this would be saying something like, "how about sometime next week?"

[Meadowchik]

It seems like the easy solution to this would be saying something like, "how about sometime next week?"

 

And if they're busy, next week, too?

 

The point was that the pressure on him was so hight that he was pressuring her so much that she lost it. This, when visits are supposed to help, not hurt the visited.

[ksfisher]

And if they're busy, next week, too?

 

The point was that the pressure on him was so hight that he was pressuring her so much that she lost it. This, when visits are supposed to help, not hurt the visited.

 

Are people really so busy that they don't have any time during a two week period that they can't receive a visit from a ward member?  It would seem like that would be even more of a problem than the supposed pressure from ward leaders to make a visit.

 

And as I said before, I've never had anyone tell me that a church assignment, especially a visit, was so life and death that all other considerations had to be tossed aside.

 

The whole scenario that the OP is presenting just doesn't ring true to me.  Being asked to fulfill a welfare assignment instead of going to work?  Really?  That one is also hard to swallow.

[Guest]

PaPa , you have over the years blessed the lives of others. " For every thing there is a season ". I'm sure you are grateful for all the service that has been rendered for you. If I have any idea about you I suspect you are like most men who have had much responsibility and some control over events for much of their career. They hate being a burden and not really in control of their own circumstances. I know I would do all I could to avoid such a situation. That said, the saying," let go and let God " comes to mind . Allowing others to serve you is in itself a service to others. My hopes for a successful outcome to all your ' procedures ' . Hang in there and keep a sense of humor. Some days it's the only thing that can push back the black dog .

I am ex-military, retired police and inspector...before the accident I took on a very demanding job more suited for young men physically the age of 52, and crushed it. The entire time I was serving in many callings and loved it...now I feel like I am being acted upon rather than acting. Other than Church (when I can) I never leave my home except to see doctors, because driving (well riding in my case) hurts too much. It is insulting for a man to receive checks for being injured. I am 58, and there is still so much I want to do in my profession. I teach from time to time for good money, but every class I usually have my sons drive me in case the class becomes hard or if I need to take meds after it is over.

I am tired, I am hurting, and I get so angry at times I lash out...then I am hurting and ashamed! Maybe there is a point, just not seeing it right now. Saturday at a funeral, I struggled to find the words to say and then wondered if I believed what I said. Truth is it was a horrible accident that made no sense, a church project where one brother I love drove a fire truck retrieving flags and the other brother I love falling to his death...in the wake his wife and a 12 year old son. There was a time when I knew what to say and believed completely what I said...now I fumble and trip over my words.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Pa Pa

[Meadowchik]

Are people really so busy that they don't have any time during a two week period that they can't receive a visit from a ward member?  It would seem like that would be even more of a problem than the supposed pressure from ward leaders to make a visit.

 

And as I said before, I've never had anyone tell me that a church assignment, especially a visit, was so life and death that all other considerations had to be tossed aside.

 

The whole scenario that the OP is presenting just doesn't ring true to me.  Being asked to fulfill a welfare assignment instead of going to work?  Really?  That one is also hard to swallow.

 

 

Yes, they really, really can be.  It's not mysterious, it's a matter of hours in the day which are finite. 

 

For instance, my husband commutes 5+ hours a day by train, 3 days of the week.  we have 7 kids, ages 4 to 15, the youngest are twins, a couple acres of garden which needs maintaining and a contractor working on projects on our house. You can bet that an hour can easily top us off, depending on the 2-week period, or even a month, depending on the month.

 

If the vagaries of life can do this to us, surely it can do so to countless others.

 

And the whole point of the OP is that there are just too many things.  Sure, you may have 6 hours to spare this week and next, so here's a calling.  Now, here's a service project, now here's a talk.  Oops, had a problem at work, time to work extra.  Oops, meetings at school.  Oops, orthodontist for the kids.  Oops, massive paperwork that needs doing by the end of the month.

 

I sure hope this is at least in theory understandable, in real life it is absolutely possible.

[ksfisher]

Yes, they really, really can be.  It's not mysterious, it's a matter of hours in the day which are finite. 

 

For instance, my husband commutes 5+ hours a day by train, 3 days of the week.  we have 7 kids, ages 4 to 15, the youngest are twins, a couple acres of garden which needs maintaining and a contractor working on projects on our house. You can bet that an hour can easily top us off, depending on the 2-week period, or even a month, depending on the month.

 

If the vagaries of life can do this to us, surely it can do so to countless others.

 

And the whole point of the OP is that there are just too many things.  Sure, you may have 6 hours to spare this week and next, so here's a calling.  Now, here's a service project, now here's a talk.  Oops, had a problem at work, time to work extra.  Oops, meetings at school.  Oops, orthodontist for the kids.  Oops, massive paperwork that needs doing by the end of the month.

 

I sure hope this is at least in theory understandable, in real life it is absolutely possible.

 

So then, is church just something we do for three hours on Sunday?

 

Both my wife and I work full time.  We have three children at home.  We both have stake callings that can require extra time on Sunday and sometimes during the week.  We've never had a problem fulfilling our church assignments and taking care of home as well.  It requires having a good calendar and knowing when to say "I can't do that Tuesday, how about Sunday after church."

 

Service projects come along once every few months.  Almost always they're on the calendar several months in advance and can be planned for.  If either of us have another assignment it's never been a problem to say "I can't." 

 

I speak in church every other month.  I've always had plenty of time to prepare.

 

Perhaps my experience is just different than others, but I've always found it a joy to serve in the church.  And I believe our family is stronger because we're committed to serving others.  Sometimes things do get hectic and it feels like there is more that needs to be done than can, but I know that during those times the Lord blesses and strengthens us.  Burdens become lighter as we serve with joy.

 

I've always found that I have the time to do the things that I truly want to do.

[bluebell]

So then, is church just something we do for three hours on Sunday?

 

Both my wife and I work full time.  We have three children at home.  We both have stake callings that can require extra time on Sunday and sometimes during the week.  We've never had a problem fulfilling our church assignments and taking care of home as well.  

 

 

 

Then the OP doesn't apply to you and you can go on your merry way happily being the perfect scheduler of life.  

 

Seriously though, when someone tells you that they are overwhelmed, the least helpful thing to say is that you aren't overwhelmed and therefore they shouldn't be either.   

[ksfisher]

Then the OP doesn't apply to you and you can go on your merry way happily being the perfect scheduler of life.  

 

Seriously though, when someone tells you that they are overwhelmed, the least helpful thing to say is that you aren't overwhelmed and therefore they shouldn't be either.   

 

 

 

Understand your second point.  My point is I'm having a difficult time believing everything the OP is saying. 

[bluebell]

Understand your second point.  My point is I'm having a difficult time believing everything the OP is saying. 

 

I get what you're saying, and i wouldn't be surprised if some of it is perception, but given that the OP is just looking to vent and probably feel better, does it really matter?    

 

As Dr. Phil is fond of saying "perception is reality".  

[Meadowchik]

I am ex-military, retired police and inspector...before the accident I took on a very demanding job more suited for young men physically the age of 52, and crushed it. The entire time I was serving in many callings and loved it...now I feel like I am being acted upon rather than acting. Other than Church (when I can) I never leave my home except to see doctors, because driving (well riding in my case) hurts too much. It is insulting for a man to receive checks for being injured. I am 58, and there is still so much I want to do in my profession. I teach from time to time for good money, but every class I usually have my sons drive me in case the class becomes hard or if I need to take meds after it is over.

I am tired, I am hurting, and I get so angry at times I lash out...then I am hurting and ashamed! Maybe there is a point, just not seeing it right now. Saturday at a funeral, I struggled to find the words to say and then wondered if I believed what I said. Truth is it was a horrible accident that made no sense, a church project where one brother I love drove a fire truck retrieving flags and the other brother I love falling to his death...in the wake his wife and a 12 year old son. There was a time when I knew what to say and believed completely what I said...now I fumble and trip over my words.

 

That's an enormous amount of gear-switching that you've had to do!

I think it it totally normal to feel lost with such sudden life changes, and I am sorry that I was insensitive before!

Can you forgive me?

[Meadowchik]

So then, is church just something we do for three hours on Sunday?

 

Both my wife and I work full time.  We have three children at home.  We both have stake callings that can require extra time on Sunday and sometimes during the week.  We've never had a problem fulfilling our church assignments and taking care of home as well.  It requires having a good calendar and knowing when to say "I can't do that Tuesday, how about Sunday after church."

 

Service projects come along once every few months.  Almost always they're on the calendar several months in advance and can be planned for.  If either of us have another assignment it's never been a problem to say "I can't." 

 

I speak in church every other month.  I've always had plenty of time to prepare.

 

Perhaps my experience is just different than others, but I've always found it a joy to serve in the church.  And I believe our family is stronger because we're committed to serving others.  Sometimes things do get hectic and it feels like there is more that needs to be done than can, but I know that during those times the Lord blesses and strengthens us.  Burdens become lighter as we serve with joy.

 

I've always found that I have the time to do the things that I truly want to do.

 

I can see that and I am happy for you. 

 

Hopefully, though, if you can imagine a family that organizes and prioritizes poorly without taking important things into account, you can imagine a ward or stake doing something similar on an institutional level.  It's not a binary thing, activity or none, it's a balance.  And if the need for balance exists, than definitely the possibility of imbalance exists.  Over the pulpit we've heard counsel about it and our leaders have also been advised against imbalanced church activity.  It's reasonable to surmise those words were a response to excess in some places and families.

 

Did you read the part about my visiting teacher?  Really, truly, I do wonder if she is alive and well. I don't recall her name--we were only there for a summer--or I would have checked years ago. Really, she looked overworn in every sense. Looking back with more experience behind me, my heart breaks for her.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Meadowchik

[Guest]

That's an enormous amount of gear-switching that you've had to do!

I think it it totally normal to feel lost with such sudden life changes, and I am sorry that I was insensitive before!

Can you forgive me?

My policy on forgiveness is that it must be quick and absolute...it was already so, and why I did not respond. I am not allowed to remain angry or hate.

I am a child of God, I am the son of Albert and Frankie Lee, husband to Pam Lee, father of four, Papa of 8...they are all, always watching. I can't let them down...this is why I keep my feelings of woe at times close to the vest.

Besides, I have lost enough friends.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Pa Pa

[ksfisher]

I get what you're saying, and i wouldn't be surprised if some of it is perception, but given that the OP is just looking to vent and probably feel better, does it really matter?    

 

As Dr. Phil is fond of saying "perception is reality".  

 

Dr Phil is right.  And perhaps my perception of this thread is that all the other posters believe that there really are wards that operate in the manner that the OP presents. 

 

Venting is fine, but it seems to me that there was such hyperbole involved in the OP that it makes it difficult to see what the real problem is.  Obviously there is a problem, but the OP has distorted it beyond recognition.

Edited July 15, 2015 by ksfisher

[bluebell]

Obviously there is a problem, but the OP has distorted it beyond recognition.

 

He's actually living in this ward and having these experiences.  No one else in this thread is.  Let's not pretend that we know more about it than he does.  

[ERayR]

I simply have to get this off my chest. Ever since I moved to Utah two and half years ago I have noticed something that is troubling me greatly and even causing me to have some mild faith issues. I don't know if this is happening all over the place i just know it's happening in my current ward and I do think it speaks to a more widespread church problem. 

 

to put it simply: Church members are being crushed and overwhelmed with a constant barrage of  assignments, guilt trips, callings and activities. I've never seen an organization thrust so many things onto it's members and cause so much stress and guilt when we fail to fulfill them. I thought I was the only one feeling this way until I heard these complaints coming from everyone I got to know in the ward. The women here looked stressed beyond belief and many of the men look lost in a sea of endless meetings and assignments. Not to say they don't love the gospel they do but they are stretched thin and are weary.

 

I have two callings and struggle to get all the things done for them with my full time job. I always feel as though I'm dropping the ball and I feel guilty. Beyond that I have an assignment sheet that has me scheduled at the cannary (during a work day!!) ushering, splits with missionaries, snow removal, chair set up, church cleaning, taking youth to temple and activity assignments. Beyond that there is home teaching that needs to get done, ward temple night, temple committee assignments and visits. One of my callings has me in a meeting every Sunday at 1:00 and weekly teacher visits and monthly training. All this is done before we even get to the basics of the gospel like family history research, service activities, temple attendance and family home evening.

 

Once in my meeting we brought up the stake calendar to find one night to book a teacher training. We literally could not find one night that wasn't full with something. You know like Scouts, young men and young women activities, ward activities, scouts activities random stake leadership trainings. It goes on and on and on. I had my home teacher over once (ward mission leader) and he was talking about how the bishop makes the entire PEC attend weekly. He is  up at 6:00 every sunday morning and sits through a 3 hour meeting most of which doesn't pertain to him. He was saying people in the ward keep creating initiatives and ideas that consistently add to everyones current responsibilities. You could tell he was completely burned out. The sad thing is I know that my obligations are nothing compared to many others especially those in the Bishopric.

 

Oh and at least once a month we spend an entire Priesthood meeting getting lectured about how bad everyone is at fulfilling assignments. Someone doesn't show up for a ward cleaning or a Cannery assignment and the whole group gets chastised. It's a recurring thing. I was scheduled for a cannery assignment recently on a Tuesday afternoon and had to find a replacement because of an unexpected work obligation. The elders quorum president was very clear i had to find a replacement. I asked several people everyone turned me down, I emailed Elders, high priests, youth presidents. No one could take it. I eventually paid one of the young woman 20 bucks to take the assignment. Embarrassing and ridiculous. I get emails all the time asking me to fulfill assignments that the members struggle with in their busy lives.

 

I love the gospel and all that it stands for. But we need to cut out half of these ridiculous meetings and assignments. We need to give the members their lives back and lay off the guilt tripping. 

 

Not surprising as it is a problem common to any organization and the larger the organization the harder it is to correlate between its individual members.  With families there is Young Women, Young Men, Scouts, school activities, sports, dance and civic activities.  As no two families have the same dynamics there will be different demands on each family thus scheduling difficulties not only within the family but between families. 

[ERayR]

You say you are a single dad, and nothing in any of your posts says anything about spending time with your kids.  I do not think you are neglecting your kids but I do think you are giving greater weight to accomplishing church tasks over the myriad of mundane tasks associated with your kids.  All of those things you say you are behind in need to take priority over doing things for the church.  You are one person raising kids, your first responsibility is to care for them.  You HAVE to earn the money through continued employment to create and care for a home, clean it maintain it, make it a peaceful welcoming place for your kids.  You HAVE to provide nutritious for growing kids that includes all the attendant planning, purchasing, cooking and cleaning up for 3 meals a day.  You HAVE to teach, guide, and counsel your kids.  NO ONE ELSE can do this, no one else is responsible for or cares more about doing all these stupid necessary tasks than you.  You can't afford to fail with your kids and that means YOU have to put them first, you are the only one caring for them on a daily grind basis.  Others have said you have to grow a backbone I wouldn't put it that way I would say you have to put your family first.  The backbone comes in when you care less about what others in the church think about you and more about what is needed at home.  And maybe you should spend sometime reflecting on just why you put so much stock in the opinions of others, why do you feel the need to fulfill others expectations?

 

You are absolutely correct but one very important part of that care is to provide training in their commitment to God.  A very good way to do this is by example.

[Robert F. Smith]

..........................................................................

As Dr. Phil is fond of saying "perception is reality".  

Perception is everything.

[Robert F. Smith]

Dr Phil is right.  And perhaps my perception of this thread is that all the other posters believe that there really are wards that operate in the manner that the OP presents. 

 

Venting is fine, but it seems to me that there was such hyperbole involved in the OP that it makes it difficult to see what the real problem is.  Obviously there is a problem, but the OP has distorted it beyond recognition.

Unfortunately, there are wards from Hell.  Distasteful as it is, it does happen.  I have also seen wards in which salty members wouldn't allow a bishop to get away with it -- calling him by his first name, etc.