Calm Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 Just so no one else feels the need to post it. Actually I thought it was an interesting development, observations at the end especially: http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/2694608-155/kate-kelly-out-as-leader-of But the group's executive board, which has turned over almost entirely since Kelly's excommunication, and its backers also have paid a price during the past year — in time, religious respectability and church standing. Some have lost callings, temple access, even friends.Whether from fear, burnout or altered perspectives, some have stepped away from the organization, some have quietly withdrawn their profiles, some have a different view of women's priesthood altogether.And, for some, Kelly's post-excommunication persona and actions have created divisions over leadership and tactics. PS: and to get my ongoing rant out right away....yet another mention of crying women. Felt its inclusion was rather forced this time around, after all none of the women are still there.
Jeanne Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) To KK. Step down woman. Your voice is no longer heard. It is silenced again like so many sounds in the melody of change.Some day,,perhaps, women will realize that the voice was for her..for her posterity..and for her love for a Heavenly Mother that is there..but not. I think it is sad. I don't know Kate personally...but I heard her and understood what she was saying..even if, the tact was not always there. What else in her conscience and love for her sisters could she have done? You and I don't have to agree with her..but she has a right as a daughter of God to make her own way,..to make what she thought was important..important to all of us. After all, isn't that what current Priesthood holders are trying to do. I would give anything to have been the one to give my dying husband and beautiful children a blessing,. Edited July 4, 2015 by Jeanne 1
Calm Posted July 4, 2015 Author Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) What else in her conscience and love for her sisters could she have done? Joined them in wearing pants to church a few years ago instead of not doing so because she doesn't like pants. Added her voice to the book about OW instead of refusing because she didn't have enough control over it. Not judged other feminists because they didn't agree with her. Not mock believers. PS: this does not make her a horrible person, of course. Just someone who falls short of the ideal. Edited July 4, 2015 by calmoriah 3
ERayR Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 To KK. Step down woman. Your voice is no longer heard. It is silenced again like so many sounds in the melody of change.Some day,,perhaps, women will realize that the voice was for her..for her posterity..and for her love for a Heavenly Mother that is there..but not. I think it is sad. I don't know Kate personally...but I heard her and understood what she was saying..even if, the tact was not always there. What else in her conscience and love for her sisters could she have done? You and I don't have to agree with her..but she has a right as a daughter of God to make her own way,..to make what she thought was important..important to all of us. After all, isn't that what current Priesthood holders are trying to do. I would give anything to have been the one to give my dying husband and beautiful children a blessing,. Jacob 4:10 Wherefore, brethren, seek not to counsel the Lord, but to take counsel from his hand. For behold, ye yourselves know that he counseleth in wisdom, and in justice, and in great mercy, over all his works. I don't believe there was/is anything preventing you from giving a blessing, just not priesthood blessing. 1
JLHPROF Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 I would give anything to have been the one to give my dying husband and beautiful children a blessing,. There is zero reason you couldn't have done so. Not all blessings are priesthood based, nor do they need to be.
Jeanne Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 There is zero reason you couldn't have done so. Not all blessings are priesthood based, nor do they need to be.Perhaps you are right. I blessed them every day of my life like any wife and mother. But where is the miracle I wanted to give?
Jeanne Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Joined them in wearing pants to church a few years ago instead of not doing so because she doesn't like pants. Added her voice to the book about OW instead of refusing because she didn't have enough control over it. Not judged other feminists because they didn't agree with her. Not mock believers. PS: this does not make her a horrible person, of course. Just someone who falls short of the ideal.I never ever thought she was ideal..none of us are really. Some just have more courage than others. The fact that she didn't wear pants..was just because she wanted to wear what she wanted to wear..I don't think that she ever condemned her other sisters.
Jeanne Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Joined them in wearing pants to church a few years ago instead of not doing so because she doesn't like pants. Added her voice to the book about OW instead of refusing because she didn't have enough control over it. Not judged other feminists because they didn't agree with her. Not mock believers. PS: this does not make her a horrible person, of course. Just someone who falls short of the ideal.I never ever thought she was ideal..none of us are really. Some just have more courage than others. The fact that she didn't wear pants..was just because she wanted to wear what she wanted to wear..I don't think that she ever condemned her other sisters. Sorry about the re-post, Edited July 5, 2015 by Jeanne
Avatar4321 Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Perhaps you are right. I blessed them every day of my life like any wife and mother. But where is the miracle I wanted to give?Where is the faith to proceed it? 2
Calm Posted July 5, 2015 Author Posted July 5, 2015 I don't think that she ever condemned her other sisters. She condemned moderates as pseudofeminists.
Stone holm Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 She condemned moderates as pseudofeminists.Have always wondered about moderates concerning Christ's condemnation of lukewarms, does that apply? Fair number of sisters sitting on the edge out here wondering if KK took the right course. Always that hesitation because of fear of being condemned for "counseling the" leadership, except condemnors always say "counseling the Lord" with the certainty that they mean the same. Thing.
cinepro Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Where is the faith to proceed it? While it should be "precede", I can see a line of clever bumper stickers and t-shirts saying "Faith Proceeds The Miracle" doing quite well in some circles.
Popular Post smac97 Posted July 5, 2015 Popular Post Posted July 5, 2015 I never ever thought she was ideal..none of us are really. Some just have more courage than others. The fact that she didn't wear pants..was just because she wanted to wear what she wanted to wear..I don't think that she ever condemned her other sisters. Sorry about the re-post, Well, she said this: "Sadly, the Mormon faith has become a place that incentivizes the survival of the least fit. Since strict obedience is demanded and harshly enforced, only the least talented, least articulate, least nuanced thinkers, least likely to take a stand against abuse, and the least courageous people thrive in the Church today." Characterizing observant Latter-day Saints as "the least talented, least articulate, least nuanced thinkers, least likely to take a stand against abuse, and the least courageous" seems fairly condemnatory. Thanks, -Smac 7
carbon dioxide Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Well, she said this: "Sadly, the Mormon faith has become a place that incentivizes the survival of the least fit. Since strict obedience is demanded and harshly enforced, only the least talented, least articulate, least nuanced thinkers, least likely to take a stand against abuse, and the least courageous people thrive in the Church today." If Kate Kelly is the one of the more talented, more articulate, higher thinkers, than being talented and a higher thinker is overrated. Courage is not the label I would apply to her. 2
smac97 Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 PS: and to get my ongoing rant out right away....yet another mention of crying women. Felt its inclusion was rather forced this time around, after all none of the women are still there.From the article: "Kelly, a returned Mormon missionary and human-rights attorney, learned that she had been excommunicated at an OW board meeting in Salt Lake City on June 23, 2014. She began to tear up at the email from her LDS bishop, and soon most of the nine or so board members around the table were weeping as well."Yeesh. More melodramatic, "Fainting Couch Feminism" twaddle from the keyboard of Peggy Fletcher Stack. Is she (Stack) trying to make the OW folks look bad? Thanks, -Smac
Russell C McGregor Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) To KK. Step down woman. Your voice is no longer heard. It is silenced again like so many sounds in the melody of change. Can I have an extra dollop of syrup, please? Her voice wasn't "silenced." She is just as free to keep twanging away at her one-note symphony as she ever was. Indeed, being no longer subject to the allegedly stifling constraint of male (ugh!) ecclesiastical leadership, she should, intuitively, be more free to do so. Sorry to interject facts into the gush-fest. Edited July 5, 2015 by Russell C McGregor 1
Russell C McGregor Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 PS: and to get my ongoing rant out right away....yet another mention of crying women. Felt its inclusion was rather forced this time around, after all none of the women are still there. Oh the wimmin was sobbin', sobbin', sobbin' fit to be tied... 1
Calm Posted July 5, 2015 Author Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Have always wondered about moderates concerning Christ's condemnation of lukewarms, does that apply? Fair number of sisters sitting on the edge out here wondering if KK took the right course. Always that hesitation because of fear of being condemned for "counseling the" leadership, except condemnors always say "counseling the Lord" with the certainty that they mean the same. Thing.These women were hardly likely moderates out of fear. They were much more effective in pushing for change than OW ever were. What they didn't buy into was forcing the Brethren into a corner or that the way for greater female equality was for men to give women the Priesthood. Edited July 5, 2015 by calmoriah 4
Stone holm Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 These women were hardly likely moderates out of fear. They were much more effective in pushing for change than OW ever were. What they didn't buy into was forcing the Brethren into a corner or that the way for greater female equality was for men to give women the Priesthood.Have wondered why there has been no push for a Priestesshood. Fear factor was not aimed at the moderates you referred to, but fence sitters out here.
Calm Posted July 5, 2015 Author Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) I don't know of any moderate woman in the church who is a "fence sitter". All the ones I've talked to have very well thought out positions based on their understanding of the gospel and experiences. Edited July 5, 2015 by calmoriah 3
bluebell Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 I don't know of any moderate woman in the church who is a "fence sitter". All the ones I've talked to have very well thought out positions based on their understanding of the gospel and experiences.I think that stonehelm is confused about the definitions for moderate and fence sitter. 1
Jeanne Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Can I have an extra dollop of syrup, please?Her voice wasn't "silenced." She is just as free to keep twanging away at her one-note symphony as she ever was.Indeed, being no longer subject to the allegedly stifling constraint of male (ugh!) ecclesiastical leadership, she should, intuitively, be more free to do so.Sorry to interject facts into the gush-fest.Again..like old times, my feelings don't matter. Gees, forgive me my gushiness. It just makes me more sensitive thnt you are. I may not hear well, but I listen..can you say the same? Edited July 5, 2015 by Jeanne
JLHPROF Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Again..like old times, my feelings don't matter. Gees, forgive me my gushiness. Everyone's feelings matter to them.But not a single feeling ever changes the reality of a situation.
Jeanne Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 I think that stonehelm is confused about the definitions for moderate and fence sitter. Or..as the women I tried to talk to before I resigned,..they are not into deep doctrine. They just nod their head and say "yes."
Russell C McGregor Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Again..like old times, my feelings don't matter. Gees, forgive me my gushiness. It just makes me more sensitive thnt you are. I may not hear well, but I listen..can you say the same? You made an assertion of fact, namely that Ms Kelly had been "silenced." That is manifestly not true. When it comes to questions of fact, nobody's feelings matter. 2
Recommended Posts