Is The Future Of Religion Really Bleak?

[Teancum]

According to this article by Daniel Dennett the answer is yes....short of some world wide catastrophe:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-future-of-religion-is-bleak-1430104785

I am not posting this to be cantankerous. I am honestly interested in people's thoughts.

This section caught my attention.

Could anything turn this decline around? Yes, unfortunately. A global plague, a world war fought over water or oil, the collapse of the Internet (and thereby almost all electronic communication) or some as-yet unimagined catastrophe could throw the remaining population into misery and fear, the soil in which religion flourishes best.

With hardly any significant exceptions, religion recedes whenever human security and well-being rises, a fact that has recently been shown in numerous studies, but was suspected by John Calvin in the 16th century. He noted that the more prosperous and comfortable his Genevans became, the less dependent they were on church. Presumably, those who deplore the decline of religion in the world today would not welcome the sort of devastation and despair that could give religion its second wind.

What about that last sentence? I think some who have apocoleptic views or tendencies might welcome some devestation if they honestly beleive it will turn people back to God and religion.

[ALarson]

Oops, I just posted this article too!  How do I delete my thread?

[Teancum]

I think I was ahead of you by only a few minutes.

I see you noted the reference to the Mormon Church.

Perhaps the mods could close one of our threads,

[Buckeye]

...

What about that last sentence? I think some who have apocoleptic views or tendencies might welcome some devestation if they honestly beleive it will turn people back to God and religion.

 

I'd answer the same as Alma did to the Zoramites. It's better to be righteous on your own rather than to be humbled through your circumstances. Apocalyptic events could have some effect. But much better would be angels and miracles showing up again.

[Nofear]

As a fraction of the worldwide population atheism is in decline and projections are that the trend will continue.

 

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

 

 

Note, for us latter-day saints, this is pretty applicable to our faith as well.

[rodheadlee]

Pride cycle.

[Hillel2]

I think the answer really has to do with the interaction between human personalities and the social needs. If i live in a difficult social environment, despite my natural inclinations, religion may enable me to cope with my circumstances. If i live in a comfortable low stress environment but am naturally inclined towards religious ideas and ideals (in the same way that i might enjoy folk music to adult contemp.), i will be religious. But if i have no particular inclination towards religion and no practical need for it in my environment, it stands to reason that i will discard it. That is human nature. I think that is part (emphasis) of what we are witnessing in countries where religion is on the decline.

 

Another factor has to do with information. Again, in a comfortable environment, the naturally religiously disinclined will accept the arguments that religious thinking serves no purpose. They will probably not take the time to explore the genuine depth and significance of religious thought. So, in a way, religion falls from lack of education (this is also part of what provokes some of the less than savory forms of religion that appear from time to time...). On the other hand, if religious fence sitters can be shown that religious services society in many different ways, such people may elect to stick with a particular religious program because they perceive the good that it produces and recognize that such good may not be forthcoming from any other human quarter.

 

Religion is a creative human activity (whatever its ultimate source) like language, art and music. I see no reason why it should disappear unless the human race changes its biology in which case we might jettison those other creative activities that make us interesting.

[DonBradley]

Secular people believe in the cause of secularism so much that they try to breed it out of existence. They don't have children. And that's why even if a number of religious people move into their camp, the long-term future of irreligiosity is bleak.

[Hillel2]

Secular people believe in the cause of secularism so much that they try to breed it out of existence. They don't have children. And that's why even if a number of religious people move into their camp, the long-term future of irreligiosity is bleak.

There does seem to be some correllation. I forget the sources but i recall several scientific and anthropological studies that posited religious feeling as a kind of "mutation" that proved itself advantageous to long term survival. It seems, they say, that we are here in part because our ancestors were religious. Those who were not religious did not survive in great numbers over the long term to have children. In contemporary Judaism, it is the most religious segment of the population that is having children. One estimate posits 12 million Yiddish speaking Ultra-orthodox Jews in the United States by 2050 (I suspect they're on the optimistic side) while the Conservative and Reform communities, who at MOST produce 1-2 kids per couple will pretty much disappear. All of this can change but it is a counter to the argument that religion is disappearing. Perhaps it is only the lukewarm, social club type of religion that is on the way out?

[Gray]

Secular people believe in the cause of secularism so much that they try to breed it out of existence. They don't have children. And that's why even if a number of religious people move into their camp, the long-term future of irreligiosity is bleak.

 

Isn't that largely also an issue for education level and income level? Both of those categories show an inverted correlation with birth rate. 

[Uncle Dale]

Depends on what is meant by the word "religion."

If it is meant in the sense of people believing in supernatural

events and explanations, then, yes, that sort of world view is

fading. But have no fear -- Islam will continue to spread for

at least another thousand years.

If we mean the human tendency to band together in the

advocacy and promotion of a cause greater than ourselves,

and superseding common politics, then I think there is hope.

That has been a natural, but somewhat inexplicable group

phenomenon since prehistoric times. Why should we even

contemplate working together for a higher good? Selfish

needs and desires would logically always take precedence,

one might suppose.

But, as in the articulation of the somewhat artificial chart

of "Maslow's Hierarchy," we human beings seem to look

for a higher level of understanding and satisfaction, than

is supplied by simple self preservation and greed. And

that higher level seems to generally entail compassion

and concern for others, besides our own selves, families

and clans.

"Religion," in that sense, is built into us. It will evolve,

perhaps, but I cannot imagine it ever disappearing.

UD

[The Nehor]

Isn't this one of the concepts taught repeatedly by the Book of Mormon?

 

C.S. Lewis also talked about how people will generally run to any other source for help before they will turn to God which makes God cutting off and destroying those other sources a cruel mercy. It also shows that God is not arrogant. I would not think much of a friend who only came to me for help when everyone else had already turned their back on him. The Old Testament metaphor of us being unfaithful brides running off to adulterous lovers is very true. Yet God will accept people who come to him out of such desperate reasons as fear of hell or utter rejection everywhere else.

[Avatar4321]

Pride cycle.

exactly what I was thinking.

the Book of Mormon is two hundred years ahead of the curve.

[Teancum]

Secular people believe in the cause of secularism so much that they try to breed it out of existence. They don't have children. And that's why even if a number of religious people move into their camp, the long-term future of irreligiosity is bleak.

I know many people who are not religion and they have children. I think your premise is flawed.

[Teancum]

Isn't this one of the concepts taught repeatedly by the Book of Mormon?

 

C.S. Lewis also talked about how people will generally run to any other source for help before they will turn to God which makes God cutting off and destroying those other sources a cruel mercy. It also shows that God is not arrogant. I would not think much of a friend who only came to me for help when everyone else had already turned their back on him. The Old Testament metaphor of us being unfaithful brides running off to adulterous lovers is very true. Yet God will accept people who come to him out of such desperate reasons as fear of hell or utter rejection everywhere else.

Well I certainly thought of the Book of Mormon pattern when I read this.

[rongo]

I know many people who are not religion and they have children. I think your premise is flawed.

But the irreligious have children at rates far below the replacement rate (the more secular the country, the lower the birthrate and the higher the incidence of birth control, abortion, etc.). Religious people (of all kinds) have many more children than irreligious people. Even within the Church, the number of children where at least one parent served a mission is 3.7. Where neither parent did, it's 1.7 (national average is 2.3).

 

The reason why I don't think encroaching secularism will wipe out religion is my mission in Europe. Deeply religious people, while few in number, stand out. There is a hunger for deep religiousity, and those who feel this hunger find and sort themselves: Jehovah's Witnesses, Pentacostals, Mormons, Seventh-Day Adventists, Islam, etc. In a way, while the work itself is hard, it's easy to find seekers due to the stark contrast.

 

It's not clear to me why some think that seekers as a group are going to vanish.

[Robert F. Smith]

Isn't that largely also an issue for education level and income level? Both of those categories show an inverted correlation with birth rate. 

True, but Mormons do the opposite:  The higher the educational level, the higher the income, the higher the activity level of LDS members.  Very counterintuitive.

[Gray]

True, but Mormons do the opposite:  The higher the educational level, the higher the income, the higher the activity level of LDS members.  Very counterintuitive.

 

Yes, I think Mormonism produces quite a few successful professionals. I remember my mission president encouraged me to get an MBA in one of our interviews, even though I had no interest in any kind of business degree.