Kindergartner's Worldview

[Stone holm]

I just had a family incident which in my twisted sense of humor found hilarious, and instantly reminded me of this Board, so thought I would relate. My son practices law in a city in Tennessee, where his wife is an MD and on the faculty of a prestigious medical school. Their son enters Kindergarten next year and so like this generation's yuppies they investigated the various private Kindergartens. Now they have tried to insulate their children from the effects of the Mormon affluent bubble wards that develop in affluent neighborhoods in cities in the East near colleges and medical schools by taking an assignment to attend a Spanish speaking ward. But they take academics very seriously, and Tennessee has pretty much defunded it's public schools, so those who can afford to send their kids to private schools. So they picked out what they thought was the best kindergarten which was run by Southern Presbyterians, and applied to have their son admitted. Apparently, all the private schools require disclosure of religious affiliation. Today they got a rejection letter indicating that the Presbyterians of the school do not share the same world view as the LDS Church and therefore the admission application was denied. My son explained that apparently in the South there are two kinds of Presbyterians, one is culturally like the Southern Baptists...and this was the kind that runs the school. My thoughts, after I stopped laughing, was...yup, "deeply held religious beliefs" welcome to Southern hospitality and protection of religious discrimination.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Stone holm

[Pahoran]

I just had a family incident which in my twisted sense of humor found hilarious, and instantly reminded me of this Board, so thought I would relate. My son practices law in a city in Tennessee, where his wife is an MD and on the faculty of a prestigious medical school. Their son enters Kindergarten next year and so like this generation's yuppies they investigated the various private Kindergartens. Now they have tried to insulate their children from the effects of the Mormon affluent bubble wards that develop in affluent neighborhoods in cities in the East near colleges and medical schools by taking an assignment to attend a Spanish speaking ward. But they take academics very seriously, and Tennessee has pretty much defunded it's public schools, so those who can afford to send their kids to private schools. So they picked out what they thought was the best kindergarten which was run by Southern Presbyterians, and applied to have their son admitted. Apparently, all the private schools require disclosure of religious affiliation. Today they got a rejection letter indicating that the Presbyterians of the school do not share the same world view as the LDS Church and therefore the admission application was denied. My son explained that apparently in the South there are two kinds of Presbyterians, one is culturally like the Southern Baptists...and this was the kind that runs the school. My thoughts, after I stopped laughing, was...yup, "deeply held religious beliefs" welcome to Southern hospitality and protection of religious discrimination.

While this obviously appeals to your rather unfounded sense of Yankee superiority, there's really nothing to see here. Your son and DIL applied to a private institution and were turned down because their family didn't meet that institution's requirements. And while I do think it was a shame that it happened, that kindergarten had every right to make the choice they made. And I fail to see how it's possible to disagree with that and still plausibly claim to be in favour of, well, just about any form of liberty, really.

Regards,

Pahoran

[mfbukowski]

This is "hilarious" why exactly?

[Stone holm]

While this obviously appeals to your rather unfounded sense of Yankee superiority, there's really nothing to see here. Your son and DIL applied to a private institution and were turned down because their family didn't meet that institution's requirements. And while I do think it was a shame that it happened, that kindergarten had every right to make the choice they made. And I fail to see how it's possible to disagree with that and still plausibly claim to be in favour of, well, just about any form of liberty, really.Regards,Pahoran

Oh, I don't blame them or think it should be objectionable, I mainly find it hilarious that a kindergartener would be turned away based on a different worldview whatever the heck that may mean. I think my son, thought the whole thing kind of humorous...am waiting to hear my daughter in laws reaction. On the serious side, in States in the certain section of the country which have been busy taking the wrecking ball to their public schools, I can see where this might eventually become a problem for Mormon couples where both are highly educated and place a premium on quality schools. I found it a little hilarious because I have a couple kids who have gone through an interview and application process to get their kids in high performance pre-schools, etc. which I find a little bizarre.

[Stone holm]

This is "hilarious" why exactly?

Oh come on, can't you see a little humor in a couple yuppie Mormons getting their kid rejected from a private kindergarten based on religious bigotry? I mean after all isn't this the kind of stuff we are trying to defend?

[mnn727]

Oh come on, can't you see a little humor in a couple yuppie Mormons getting their kid rejected from a private kindergarten based on religious bigotry? I mean after all isn't this the kind of stuff we are trying to defend?

No, don't see any humor in it at all. People open religious based schools for a reason.

[Boanerges]

The Catholic schools in my neck of the woods are so strapped for cash that they take anyone. The yuppie types in our stake (we have a couple wards that fit the description of your son's) all send their kids to Catholic schools and they're glad to have them.

[guerreiro9]

Oh come on, can't you see a little humor in a couple yuppie Mormons getting their kid rejected from a private kindergarten based on religious bigotry? I mean after all isn't this the kind of stuff we are trying to defend?

Humorous yes, but I also support it.

-guerreiro9

[Stone holm]

Boanerges, quote function doesn't work on this computer.  Yeah, one of my sons went to Boston College and there was no discrimination against him, and the University of Notre Dame basically paid for my MA in American Studies there -- they found my Mormonism intriguing and interesting.   I told him he should have indicated that his forebearers were Scottish Covenanters (Reformed Presbyterians) but that might not have worked either because Covenanters were notorious abolitionists.

 

Guerreiro9, yeah I don't have a problem with it, just found it humorous on a couple levels.

[thesometimesaint]

Wow! Instead of science we teach Creationism. Instead of history we teach American Exceptionalism. Instead of obedience to law we teach my beliefs trump your law.

 

What could possibly go wrong?

[Ham Clam]

What will that be indoctrinating those kindergartners with anyways ...





But in all seriousness, that sucks. Hopefully they can find something else.

[Stone holm]

Wow! Instead of science we teach Creationism. Instead of history we teach American Exceptionalism. Instead of obedience to law we teach my beliefs trump your law.

 

What could possibly go wrong?

Yeah, but those are just in the public schools where the poor folk go to school, the Middle class send their kids to private school in Tennessee. My son from down there said to me once, "you know Dad, fixing the public schools is actually pretty easy." I replied "How is that?" He said, "Just force everyone to send their kids to public school, and even the Southern public schools will quickly improve because the parents simply won't stand for the rubbish." Fortunately, I have always lived in States with pretty good public schools, and all my vast army of children attended public schools, although my youngest went to a private school which was also the local public school."

[sethpayne]

I just had a family incident which in my twisted sense of humor found hilarious, and instantly reminded me of this Board, so thought I would relate. My son practices law in a city in Tennessee, where his wife is an MD and on the faculty of a prestigious medical school. Their son enters Kindergarten next year and so like this generation's yuppies they investigated the various private Kindergartens. Now they have tried to insulate their children from the effects of the Mormon affluent bubble wards that develop in affluent neighborhoods in cities in the East near colleges and medical schools by taking an assignment to attend a Spanish speaking ward. But they take academics very seriously, and Tennessee has pretty much defunded it's public schools, so those who can afford to send their kids to private schools. So they picked out what they thought was the best kindergarten which was run by Southern Presbyterians, and applied to have their son admitted. Apparently, all the private schools require disclosure of religious affiliation. Today they got a rejection letter indicating that the Presbyterians of the school do not share the same world view as the LDS Church and therefore the admission application was denied. My son explained that apparently in the South there are two kinds of Presbyterians, one is culturally like the Southern Baptists...and this was the kind that runs the school. My thoughts, after I stopped laughing, was...yup, "deeply held religious beliefs" welcome to Southern hospitality and protection of religious discrimination.

 

Stone holm,

 

I want to thank  you for sharing with us, proof positive, why the chicken-littles on this board who claim the government is somehow going to force LDS clergy to marry gays in the temple (or elsewhere) are out of their minds.

 

This is how things are with private institutions.  They can discriminate however they wish and by whatever standard.

[strappinglad]

A close relative( LDS) sends his kids to a nearby Mennonite run school. They teach the basics there, imagine that. There are few disciple problems and the dress code is uniform(ahem). They will definitely get a massive culture shock when the kids pass 8th grade and have to enter a secular school which also has a large LDS population.

[Yirgacheffe]

The Catholic schools in my neck of the woods are so strapped for cash that they take anyone. The yuppie types in our stake (we have a couple wards that fit the description of your son's) all send their kids to Catholic schools and they're glad to have them.

Growing up the girl whose back yard backed up against mine went to Catholic school, so did 4 other kids in my suburban neighborhood.  Janie, who lived behind me, said a lot of the kids at school weren't Catholic but everyone had to take religion and pass it.

[Storm Rider]

I just had a family incident which in my twisted sense of humor found hilarious, and instantly reminded me of this Board, so thought I would relate. My son practices law in a city in Tennessee, where his wife is an MD and on the faculty of a prestigious medical school. Their son enters Kindergarten next year and so like this generation's yuppies they investigated the various private Kindergartens. Now they have tried to insulate their children from the effects of the Mormon affluent bubble wards that develop in affluent neighborhoods in cities in the East near colleges and medical schools by taking an assignment to attend a Spanish speaking ward. But they take academics very seriously, and Tennessee has pretty much defunded it's public schools, so those who can afford to send their kids to private schools. So they picked out what they thought was the best kindergarten which was run by Southern Presbyterians, and applied to have their son admitted. Apparently, all the private schools require disclosure of religious affiliation. Today they got a rejection letter indicating that the Presbyterians of the school do not share the same world view as the LDS Church and therefore the admission application was denied. My son explained that apparently in the South there are two kinds of Presbyterians, one is culturally like the Southern Baptists...and this was the kind that runs the school. My thoughts, after I stopped laughing, was...yup, "deeply held religious beliefs" welcome to Southern hospitality and protection of religious discrimination.

 

Our children attended private school after finding public schools failing in many areas.  We applied to several schools.  The only schools in the Seattle area that rejected their applications were 1) a Christian school run by a Protestant group, and 2) a liberal school that felt their distance from our home would create too many problems in the long run.  The Catholic school and two other schools highly regarding in the city of Seattle accepted them.  Our children chose to attend the Bush School.  

 

Discrimination in private schools is far more common than you obviously think.  In my home town in Florida they did not even let Mormons join the Christian softball league that used the city's public ball fields.  That did not occur when I was a child, but last year.  

 

Discrimination happens to far more people than your pet groups or those that whine the loudest and really have nothing to whine about at all. 

[Stone holm]

Our children attended private school after finding public schools failing in many areas.  We applied to several schools.  The only schools in the Seattle area that rejected their applications were 1) a Christian school run by a Protestant group, and 2) a liberal school that felt their distance from our home would create too many problems in the long run.  The Catholic school and two other schools highly regarding in the city of Seattle accepted them.  Our children chose to attend the Bush School.  

 

Discrimination in private schools is far more common than you obviously think.  In my home town in Florida they did not even let Mormons join the Christian softball league that used the city's public ball fields.  That did not occur when I was a child, but last year.  

 

Discrimination happens to far more people than your pet groups or those that whine the loudest and really have nothing to whine about at all.

I suppose I knew about the discrimination, but it never really hit me because I always lived where there was strong support for public schools and they did a good job. What persecution I have run into over my faith has always come from fundamentalist Protestants, never from the much vilified agnostics, atheists, and liberals. Where I have lived, the latter groups tend to simply ignore us, unless we start to try and impose our standards on them.

[Storm Rider]

I suppose I knew about the discrimination, but it never really hit me because I always lived where there was strong support for public schools and they did a good job. What persecution I have run into over my faith has always come from fundamentalist Protestants, never from the much vilified agnostics, atheists, and liberals. Where I have lived, the latter groups tend to simply ignore us, unless we start to try and impose our standards on them.

 

One of the main reasons we had with leaving public schools is our son's experience.  He was a bright kid, but his second grade teacher, the head of the local teacher's union, was a very, very, strong feminist and, frankly, was abusive to all boys in her class. Liberals do discriminate against all those who believe or think differently from them.  It is always funny with all the consistent attack on Fox News by liberals.  

 

I would agree with you that fundamentalist Protestants, specifically Evangelicals, are notorious for discriminating against LDS.  They seem to be virulently anti-Mormon and this often results in bad behavior from their adherents toward LDS.  

 

I don't think any single group is devoid of discrimination against someone.  There is always a group of people identified as bad from males, to fat people, to gays, to religious people. 

[thesometimesaint]

Yeah, but those are just in the public schools where the poor folk go to school, the Middle class send their kids to private school in Tennessee. My son from down there said to me once, "you know Dad, fixing the public schools is actually pretty easy." I replied "How is that?" He said, "Just force everyone to send their kids to public school, and even the Southern public schools will quickly improve because the parents simply won't stand for the rubbish." Fortunately, I have always lived in States with pretty good public schools, and all my vast army of children attended public schools, although my youngest went to a private school which was also the local public school."

 

I've gone to both. The best private schools and the best public schools. Wouldn't trade the experience for all the world. I want both to thrive and prosper in our country,

[Teancum]

While this obviously appeals to your rather unfounded sense of Yankee superiority, there's really nothing to see here. Your son and DIL applied to a private institution and were turned down because their family didn't meet that institution's requirements. And while I do think it was a shame that it happened, that kindergarten had every right to make the choice they made. And I fail to see how it's possible to disagree with that and still plausibly claim to be in favour of, well, just about any form of liberty, really.

Regards,

Pahoran

 

 

I have to say I agree with Pahoran here.

[Kenngo1969]

While this obviously appeals to your rather unfounded sense of Yankee superiority, there's really nothing to see here. Your son and DIL applied to a private institution and were turned down because their family didn't meet that institution's requirements. And while I do think it was a shame that it happened, that kindergarten had every right to make the choice they made. And I fail to see how it's possible to disagree with that and still plausibly claim to be in favour of, well, just about any form of liberty, really.

Regards,

Pahoran

 

I have to say I agree with Pahoran here.

Prepare ye, prepare ye!  The Second Advent of the Lord of Light is nigh!

[Stone holm]

One of the main reasons we had with leaving public schools is our son's experience.  He was a bright kid, but his second grade teacher, the head of the local teacher's union, was a very, very, strong feminist and, frankly, was abusive to all boys in her class. Liberals do discriminate against all those who believe or think differently from them.  It is always funny with all the consistent attack on Fox News by liberals.  

 

I would agree with you that fundamentalist Protestants, specifically Evangelicals, are notorious for discriminating against LDS.  They seem to be virulently anti-Mormon and this often results in bad behavior from their adherents toward LDS.  

 

I don't think any single group is devoid of discrimination against someone.  There is always a group of people identified as bad from males, to fat people, to gays, to religious people.

When I lived in the Midwest, Indiana, we were constantly being attacked in the Newspapers by the Conservative Churches, to the point that liberal Churches ministers would contact me personally to apologize for the diatribes launched in the papers. I do not recall even one time during that period being attacked by the left. Out here we are not attacked in the press, although our leadership in the State legislative fight against Civil Unions did bring out a certain level of public disgust over some of the arguments made, but after that we quickly were forgotten and fell beneath the public radar.

[Calm]

At one university, one of the female liberal professors used "well, you know he's a Mormon" to argue my husband was unfit for a supervisory role. It wasn't the only time such a thing happened. They simply assumed he was a bigot and was sexist and did not make any effort to confirm or let him defend himself. On the other hand, the women who worked with him on a daily basis once got together when they heard of this happening and let it be known he was the most respectful and easy to work with individual they had experience with, including female professors.

It comes from all sides.

Edited February 21, 2015 by calmoriah

[Stone holm]

At one university, one of the female liberal professors used "well, you know he's a Mormon" to argue my husband was unfit for a supervisory role. It wasn't the only time such a thing happened. They simply assumed he was a bigot and was sexist and did not make any effort to confirm or let him defend himself. On the other hand, the women who worked with him on a daily basis once got together when they heard of this happening and let it be known he was the most respectful and easy to work with individual they had experience with, including female professors.

It comes from all sides.

I can see that happening. There is a basic assumption that all Mormons are sexist bigots and John Birchers out here. It is a more subtle form of discrimination based on assumptions drawn from our political activism, not our actual religious beliefs. There isn't any question about that type of assumption about all Mormons. It's kind of a, "Oh he's a Mormon" dismissal which assumes that we are all ultra social conservatists who want Creationism taught in the schools, women to stay at home, dend climate change, and only reluctantly believe in equality. Not fair towards a fair segment of the members, but is the definite stereotype which we have managed to continue to project and it definitely can have an impact based on those assumptions.

[Calm]

not our actual religious beliefs

 

I disagree.  The all male priesthood and the past history of polygyny has as much if not more in my experience to cause a belief that Mormon men are sexist.