Mystery Meat Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 So, this past week the girl I am dating got a message from a guy she hasn't spoken to in a long time. He sent her a link to the CES letter and said something to the effect of "This letter does a good job of summarizing why I left the Church and details some of the doctrines the church really believes but won't admit publicly." Is this common?
Coreyb Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 So, this past week the girl I am dating got a message from a guy she hasn't spoken to in a long time. He sent her a link to the CES letter and said something to the effect of "This letter does a good job of summarizing why I left the Church and details some of the doctrines the church really believes but won't admit publicly." Is this common?Yes, on NOM, RFM and MSPC people regularly discuss ways to share it (and other things) with TBMs. It's crazy how similar devout exmormons are to devout Mormons 4
cinepro Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) It would make sense that people who leave the Church might feel some of the same impulses to "share the truth" that we try so hard to foster in the members. It's probably the same with other religions who have people leaving under the same "epiphanies" (Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses etc.) Hopefully the former-members aren't better at it than the current ones... Edited February 7, 2015 by cinepro
readstoomuch Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 I think your first question is about them being returned missionaries. My oldest son is a returned missionary and though technically hash`t resigned from the Church, once he went to a MormonStories conference he stopped going and became antagonistic. The returned missionary has the challenge of gospel knowledge and depending on the mission, they had investigators and antagonists that asked questions and gave them literature. Not all missionaries have a great experience or put in the effort or spiritual growth that would be ideal. So, yes there are a number of members that become alienated from the Church in varying degrees that are returned missionaries. That includes a number of women.
bluebell Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 So, this past week the girl I am dating got a message from a guy she hasn't spoken to in a long time. He sent her a link to the CES letter and said something to the effect of "This letter does a good job of summarizing why I left the Church and details some of the doctrines the church really believes but won't admit publicly." Is this common? I had that same experience with a previous missionary companion when she left the church. It wasn't to me personally though, she put up things on her Facebook status.
Mystery Meat Posted February 7, 2015 Author Posted February 7, 2015 I don't think comparing Mormon missionaries to what these people are doing is a good comparison (even though I did it myself in the thread title), as I don't think Mormon missionaries, if they are doing it right, are trying to destroy faith; they are trying to build upon it. I have a little faith with people who try to destroy; people like John Dehlin. 2
Avatar4321 Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 I tend to think they are great missionaries... For us. Their attacks on the church end up building us more than hurting us.
Storm Rider Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 I do think some have left the church and joined other churches and upon hearing their story I find their path and choices to be healthy for them personally; however, for the vast majority of ex-Mormons who are only committed to destroying the Church of Jesus Christ, complaining, and significantly changing their lifestyle I have little patience or interest. I really do believe in the foundation of the 13th Article of Faith and when I see it active in a person's life I am comforted. I feel like whatever is happening they are being led by the Holy Spirit. When I see an absence of those qualities I tend to think that an individual is more probably in the grasp of the evil one. 4
Teancum Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 Yes, on NOM, RFM and MSPC people regularly discuss ways to share it (and other things) with TBMs. It's crazy how similar devout exmormons are to devout Mormons Why is it crqazy? Mormons are strongly urged to do missionary work. Mormons rejoice when someone converts from another religion and they hope that person can use their excitement about their new found "truth" to persuade others to consider Mormonism. But when someone leaves and wants to share it they are somehow crazy or evil. Pot and kettle here perhaps? 1
Teancum Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 I don't think comparing Mormon missionaries to what these people are doing is a good comparison (even though I did it myself in the thread title), as I don't think Mormon missionaries, if they are doing it right, are trying to destroy faith; they are trying to build upon it. I have a little faith with people who try to destroy; people like John Dehlin. I once asked a believing LDS friend it a true atheist who believes religion is damaging should have every right to persuade a believer not to believe as much as the believer may try to persuade the atheist to believe. He said he found the idea of someone trying to take away faith repulsive. Ahhh the double standard that true believers hold to is simply amazing. 1
Teancum Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 Oh and Dehlin does not try to destroy faith. That is simple a simplistic view of what the man is about. But I am not surprised it was stated by lvjd66. 3
Popular Post carbon dioxide Posted February 7, 2015 Popular Post Posted February 7, 2015 I once asked a believing LDS friend it a true atheist who believes religion is damaging should have every right to persuade a believer not to believe as much as the believer may try to persuade the atheist to believe. He said he found the idea of someone trying to take away faith repulsive. Ahhh the double standard that true believers hold to is simply amazing.Not all. I have no problem with an atheist explaining to a believer why they believe there is no god, why religion is damaging and all that. As long as they state what they believe and not misrepresent the position of the believer, all is fair. Exchanging ideas should be encouraged so we can make better, informed decisions. I don't think destroying faith is what motivates Mr Dehlin. I don't think building faith motivates him either. But he is either an asset or a liability to the Church. Does the church benefit from him being a member or is he a stumbling block. If he is a stumbling block for others, the Church needs to remove his membership. He will continue to do what he will do but at least he can't use the label of him being a member to gain some credibility. 5
Avatar4321 Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) I once asked a believing LDS friend it a true atheist who believes religion is damaging should have every right to persuade a believer not to believe as much as the believer may try to persuade the atheist to believe. He said he found the idea of someone trying to take away faith repulsive.Ahhh the double standard that true believers hold to is simply amazing.how is it a double standard to not want to tear people down when we believe in building them up? Edited February 7, 2015 by Avatar4321 1
Avatar4321 Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 Oh and Dehlin does not try to destroy faith. That is simple a simplistic view of what the man is about. But I am not surprised it was stated by lvjd66.right. And the pope isn't trying to persuade people to be catholic 2
Avatar4321 Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 You're probably right though. I'm sure he is mor interested in cash flow.
Coreyb Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 Why is it crqazy? Mormons are strongly urged to do missionary work. Mormons rejoice when someone converts from another religion and they hope that person can use their excitement about their new found "truth" to persuade others to consider Mormonism. But when someone leaves and wants to share it they are somehow crazy or evil. Pot and kettle here perhaps?I guess you're right, maybe crazy is not the right word (I find that I use that word differently than most). How about amusing? I say this because while many ex mormons are rejecting things like Truth with a capital T, or faith promoting rumors, or conversion narratives, or any way at getting to understanding outside of cold hard reason, or inspiration, or us vs them paradigms, they seem to cling to these same things as long as they agree with their new found beliefs. Don't get me wrong, this is not true for all (most?) ex Mormons, it is just very prevelant with the most active members of the groups I mentioned, and I spend as much time there as I do here.
Mystery Meat Posted February 7, 2015 Author Posted February 7, 2015 Oh and Dehlin does not try to destroy faith. That is simple a simplistic view of what the man is about. But I am not surprised it was stated by lvjd66. I have noticed that you are a very angry person. I don't know why you are so bitter. I gave you a rep point. I hope that makes you a bit less angry.
Stargazer Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 I once asked a believing LDS friend it a true atheist who believes religion is damaging should have every right to persuade a believer not to believe as much as the believer may try to persuade the atheist to believe. He said he found the idea of someone trying to take away faith repulsive. Ahhh the double standard that true believers hold to is simply amazing. It's only a double standard if the Church isn't true. Is it repulsive to convince someone to leave the Church if the Church is true? Of course. Is it repulsive to convince someone to leave the Church if the Church isn't true? Nope. It's a matter of perspective. You may consider the activity a worthy one. I don't. So there we are.
omni Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 I'm actually surprised we don't see more, after all it was Pres Hinckley who said "well it's either true or false. If it's false, then we're engaged in a great fraud...". I personally don't hold to such a black and white view, but if Pres. Hinckley does, I can imagine a number of other members and former members do. For better or worse the Church has made this bed and now it must lie in it. We shouldn't be surprised at seeing former members sharing their "truth" when they've been taught their entire life the importance of doing so - many of whom did so full-time for 18-24 mos. 2
Teancum Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 how is it a double standard to not want to tear people down when we believe in building them up?You just illustrated my point perfectly. Maybe some reallly believe religion is rearing down and lack of it is building up as much as you believer the opposite . 2
Teancum Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 right. And the pope isn't trying to persuade people to be catholicYes what I said is right, Dogma prevent many from seeng the truth. 1
Teancum Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 I have noticed that you are a very angry person. I don't know why you are so bitter. I gave you a rep point. I hope that makes you a bit less angry.Funny is m not angry at all. I am quite happy. Disagreeing with what I view as dogmatic positions that I see from you or others and expressing why does not make me angry. Calling me angry is an ad hominem attack. Dealing with what I say is not . 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 I'm surprised at those who leave after devoting 18-24 months of their life to the church.
Teancum Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 It's only a double standard if the Church isn't true.Is it repulsive to convince someone to leave the Church if the Church is true? Of course. Is it repulsive to convince someone to leave the Church if the Church isn't true? Nope.It's a matter of perspective. You may consider the activity a worthy one. I don't. So there we are.There is no substantive evidence the church is any more true than another church or to the position of an athiest, for you because of personal spiritual witness the church is true and that is wonderful....for you. An athiest may beleive they have the truth as much as you do. A catholic may beleive they have the truth as much as you do and so on and on. This Mormons rejoice when a Catholic joins the church and leaves their previous faith but not so much when it is the other way around, I don't find one more worthy or repulsive than the other, I am quite fine with anyone who believes something strongly in respectfully persuading or encouraging others to explore it, This in spite of being told I am angry in a recent post on this thread, I believe in live and let live as long as what someone is doing is not harming others. 1
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