Anakin7 Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Recently I came across this article that states/stresses that one need not be Baptized in Water to be Saved to Enter The Kingdom Of Heaven. Anyone come across this article before ?. One of the best anti Water Baptism articles I have come across.Responses are welcomed. www.evangelicaloutreach.org/baptism.htm In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 28, 2015 by Anakin7
Duncan Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Christ was baptized in water, that should be good enough 2
pogi Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Recently I came across this article that states/stresses that one need not be Baptized in Water to be Saved to Enter The Kingdom Of Heaven. Anyone come across this article before ?. One of the best anti Water Baptism articles I have come across.Responses are welcomed. www.evangelicaloutreach.org/baptism.htm In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 Not a bad argument if you only have the Bible as a reference and are subject to the limitations of such. D&C 39 5 And verily, verily, I say unto you, he that receiveth my gospel receiveth me; and he that receiveth not my gospel receiveth not me. 6 And this is my gospel—repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom. D&C 7650 And again we bear record—for we saw and heard, and this is the testimony of the gospel of Christ concerning them who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just— 51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given— 52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power; 53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true. 1
Uncle Dale Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Christ was baptized in water, that should be good enoughHeck, if we must go delving into the standard works, then Father Adam was immersed in the name of Christ, ere ever an earthly font was filled.I'll bet that Elder Alexander Campbell had a conniption fit when Sidney Rigdon first preached that fact (?) in Kirtland.But, more recently, Community of Christ has begun admitting converts from other Christian sects, based upon their prior baptisms. The dunked, dipped and sprinkled may now sing Redeemer of Israel together.UD
Popular Post The Nehor Posted January 28, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 28, 2015 Recently I came across this article that states/stresses that one need not be Baptized in Water to be Saved to Enter The Kingdom Of Heaven. Anyone come across this article before ?. One of the best anti Water Baptism articles I have come across.Responses are welcomed. www.evangelicaloutreach.org/baptism.htm In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 I refuse to read any article that abuses capitalization and bold text like that. I further do not believe that anyone who commits these crimes against my eyes can possibly have anything intelligent to say. 5
carbon dioxide Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 I refuse to read any article that abuses capitalization and bold text like that. I further do not believe that anyone who commits these crimes against my eyes can possibly have anything intelligent to say.Sort of a Tanner approach to things. Influence the reader to look at this part and overlook the other part that is not capitalized or in bold.
Alan Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 Uncle Dale,The Community of Christ only confirm those who have been baptised elsewhere by total immersion.
Boanerges Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 As a believer that baptism is symbolic of one's willingness to follow Christ and repent of his or her sins, I agree with much of the article.
Duncan Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 As a believer that baptism is symbolic of one's willingness to follow Christ and repent of his or her sins, I agree with much of the article. for sure but you should still do it! and done the right way as per Acts 19
The Nehor Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 As a believer that baptism is symbolic of one's willingness to follow Christ and repent of his or her sins, I agree with much of the article. There is a strange arrogance prevalent that holds that because one can see that something is symbolic it becomes unnecessary as if seeing through to the meaning of an act somehow makes the act worthless. Do they really think that the ancient Christians did not see the symbolism of baptism? Yet they did it anyways. 2
Brent Sohlden Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 The dunked, dipped andsprinkled may now sing Redeemer of Israel together. Yes unfortunately that is the case with the CoC. Not so with the Restoration Branch Movement, we who broke off from the RLDS when it was in the process of apostatizing in 1984. We practice the original doctrines and ordinances of the ancient church (1'st century) and early church (1830s-1844). The Community of Christ has changed more than just water baptism. They allow anyone who has accepted Christ (or any one who wants to. I know this because I was not a Christian and they allowed me to partake in my childhood) to take Communion. Any evangelical will proclaim to you that water baptism is not necessary for full salvation and these same men will tell you any book that says otherwise is not the Word of God. Their arguments seem valid to one who is not grounded in the Scriptures. But even the Bible without the Book of Mormon or the Doctrine and Covenants or PoGP proclaims loud and clear the need for baptism. Mark 16 says that he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. In Acts Peter responds to the men who want to know what they should do, to Arise every one of you and be baptized and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Evangelicals will twist these and other Scriptures all kinds of different ways but "Let God be True and Every Man a Liar." I choose to believe the Bible, and am so grateful for the added benefit of the rest of the Word of God that we have so far that establish the truth of the Bible. If we receive any writing as the Word of God that contradicts the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants or the Pearl of Great Price then we must repent of this for Scripture cannot be disjunctive or contradictory.
danielwoods Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 Recently I came across this article that states/stresses that one need not be Baptized in Water to be Saved to Enter The Kingdom Of Heaven. Anyone come across this article before ?. One of the best anti Water Baptism articles I have come across.Responses are welcomed. www.evangelicaloutreach.org/baptism.htm In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 Very good, thanks!
danielwoods Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 Not a bad argument if you only have the Bible as a reference and are subject to the limitations of such. D&C 39 5 And verily, verily, I say unto you, he that receiveth my gospel receiveth me; and he that receiveth not my gospel receiveth not me. 6 And this is my gospel—repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom. D&C 7650 And again we bear record—for we saw and heard, and this is the testimony of the gospel of Christ concerning them who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just— 51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given— 52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power; 53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true. Not an extension, but a contradiction. Acts 15:7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. According to the Bible, the gospel was heard, and their hearts were purified and were baptized after the Holy Spirit came on them. D&C 39:6 And this is my gospel—repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom. According to this, the gospel includes baptism, and then the Holy Spirit comes after that. The second doesn't expand on the first. It contradicts it. Teaching something different in it's place. The conclusion. The Bible isn't limited. Rather it has it's own unique message. The D&C has a different message.
Anakin7 Posted January 29, 2015 Author Posted January 29, 2015 Response To Baptism as non essential to Salvation criticisms http://www.bebaptized.org In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
halconero Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Post-Reformation Christianty can say what it wants about baptism. Any study of Early Christian practices will reveal that baptism, even among Pauline Christians, was seen as efficacious and necessary for salvation. 1
Anakin7 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Posted January 31, 2015 That is very True halconero. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7
Freedom Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Not an extension, but a contradiction. Acts 15:7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. According to the Bible, the gospel was heard, and their hearts were purified and were baptized after the Holy Spirit came on them. D&C 39:6 And this is my gospel—repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom. According to this, the gospel includes baptism, and then the Holy Spirit comes after that. The second doesn't expand on the first. It contradicts it. Teaching something different in it's place. The conclusion. The Bible isn't limited. Rather it has it's own unique message. The D&C has a different message. You are confusing revelation from the holy ghost with the gift of the holy ghost. The message is that the gentiles, even though they were not circumcised, were still entitled to received revelation from the holy ghost to know the church is true. 1
3DOP Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Post-Reformation Christianty can say what it wants about baptism. Any study of Early Christian practices will reveal that baptism, even among Pauline Christians, was seen as efficacious and necessary for salvation. This is very true, and it is what I mean when I refer to the authority of "Sacred Tradition". From a Bible Alone perspective, apart from any historical realities, the best arguments deny that Pauline references to "baptism" are water baptisms. They can legitimately point out that the word baptism is also used with reference to the Holy Ghost, fire, and blood. As always, I contend that the Scripture alone is inadequate to resolve the doctrinal controversy.
Uncle Dale Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Uncle Dale,The Community of Christ only confirm those who have been baptised elsewhere by total immersion. So they say. But I'm told that Christians who have stood in the riverand had water poured over them (Methodists, etc.) might be acceptedin some branches -- and the precise details never reported back tothe World Church headquarters. Seems it was good enough for this guy, whoever he may have been In fact I saw something like this happen myself, in the case of avery elderly lady who was baptized in a CoC font, and her nosekept above the water all the time. She passed away soon after. So -- as they say here in Hawaii "What happens local reallydon't concern the Priesthood back in Zion, anyways, bro." UD Edited February 2, 2015 by Uncle Dale 1
Anakin7 Posted February 2, 2015 Author Posted February 2, 2015 That picture does not look like a Death/ Burial/ Ressurection to me. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7
danielwoods Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 You are confusing revelation from the holy ghost with the gift of the holy ghost. The message is that the gentiles, even though they were not circumcised, were still entitled to received revelation from the holy ghost to know the church is true.The point is that the two teachings are contradicting. It isn't about revelation, no where does it state that they got a revelation that the church was true, rather, "He accepted them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us….He purified their hearts by faith."Acts 15:7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.According to the Bible, the gospel was heard, and their hearts were purified and were baptized after the Holy Spirit came on them.
Uncle Dale Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 That picture does not look like a Death/ Burial/ Ressurection to me. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7And I doubt that John's version of baptism included the element of personal death and resurrection. I may be wrong -- I was not there on the banks of the Jordan to witness what went on, nor to enquire what the baptism of repentance meant to those Jews.Did John's adherents have to be re-baptized in order to commune with St. Paul's co-religionists at Antioch and elsewhere?If it so happened that James, the brother of Jesus was baptized, standing in the Jordan, the same day as Jesus was baptized, would have the earliest Christians refused him fellowship, until he had been re-dipped?I wonder...UD
Freedom Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 The point is that the two teachings are contradicting. It isn't about revelation, no where does it state that they got a revelation that the church was true, rather, "He accepted them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us….He purified their hearts by faith."Acts 15:7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.According to the Bible, the gospel was heard, and their hearts were purified and were baptized after the Holy Spirit came on them.Do you understand what it means by having the holy ghost come to you?
danielwoods Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Do you understand what it means by having the holy ghost come to you? The reference in Acts 15 is talking about what happened to them in Acts chapter 2.
carbon dioxide Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) Not an extension, but a contradiction. Acts 15:7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. According to the Bible, the gospel was heard, and their hearts were purified and were baptized after the Holy Spirit came on them. D&C 39:6 And this is my gospel—repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom. According to this, the gospel includes baptism, and then the Holy Spirit comes after that. The second doesn't expand on the first. It contradicts it. Teaching something different in it's place. The conclusion. The Bible isn't limited. Rather it has it's own unique message. The D&C has a different message. Or they present the same message from a different perspective. The Holy Ghost converts people to the gospel. The Holy Ghost is need to be present before baptism to convict people to the truth. This is why missionaries tell investigators to pray about the Book of Mormon for example and the Holy Ghost will manifest the truth of it to them. Then when they are baptized, they receive something different. They receive the gift of the Holy Ghost which can allow access to things of the Holy Ghost that extend far beyond what they had initially had before. To be a constant companion if one lives right rather a situational, temporary companion to those who have not been baptized. Acts 2:37 :Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?" Peter tells them the truth, the Holy Ghost pricks them in the heart. and then Acts 2:38:" Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Edited February 4, 2015 by carbon dioxide 1
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