Freedom Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Please read this link and then get back to us: http://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/bickmore-book-of-mormon-trinitarianism-or-modalism.pdfGreat article. I forgot about this reference in 3 Nephi 26:8-9. These verses are key to understanding the format and content of the Book of Mormon
HOLY CATHOLIC Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Fair does admit Mormonism's view of God evolved after The Bible and Book of Mormon teach a self-exiting God Mosiah 3:5 and it does mention modalism which is taught in Ether 3:14, Mosiah 16:15 and Mosiah 15:3-4. Something Holy Catholics reject as heresy since we do not believe God the Father and Jesus are same person. The Athanasion Creed does say not confounding the persons [ mixing the up ] found in these same verses . Must be a dumb mistake like Alma 7:10 which says Jesus was born in Jerusalem when even in Micah 5:2 , 800 years before his birth got it right . Why would Mormonism view of God evolve if they were led by a omniscient God ?
HOLY CATHOLIC Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 3 Nephi 26:21 does mention the Churches name "Church of Christ"
Freedom Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Fair does admit Mormonism's view of God evolved after The Bible and Book of Mormon teach a self-exiting God Mosiah 3:5 and it does mention modalism which is taught in Ether 3:14, Mosiah 16:15 and Mosiah 15:3-4. Something Holy Catholics reject as heresy since we do not believe God the Father and Jesus are same person. The Athanasion Creed does say not confounding the persons [ mixing the up ] found in these same verses . Must be a dumb mistake like Alma 7:10 which says Jesus was born in Jerusalem when even in Micah 5:2 , 800 years before his birth got it right . Why would Mormonism view of God evolve if they were led by a omniscient God ? Dumb mistake? You continue to make manifest your profound ignorance. You do understand the difference between how we understand something and what that something actually is don't you? The Book of Mormon does not contradict our current doctrine, rather our doctrine has become more clear through modern revelation. Clearly if you only had the Book of Mathew to rely on your doctrine of God would be greatly reduced.
thesometimesaint Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Fair does admit Mormonism's view of God evolved after The Bible and Book of Mormon teach a self-exiting God Mosiah 3:5 and it does mention modalism which is taught in Ether 3:14, Mosiah 16:15 and Mosiah 15:3-4. Something Holy Catholics reject as heresy since we do not believe God the Father and Jesus are same person. The Athanasion Creed does say not confounding the persons [ mixing the up ] found in these same verses . Must be a dumb mistake like Alma 7:10 which says Jesus was born in Jerusalem when even in Micah 5:2 , 800 years before his birth got it right . Why would Mormonism view of God evolve if they were led by a omniscient God ? The Book of Mormon doesn't claim Jesus was born in Jerusalem.SEE Alma 7:9-109. But behold, the Spirit hath said this much unto me, saying: Cry unto this people, saying—Repent ye, and prepare the way of the Lord, and walk in his paths, which are straight; for behold, the kingdom of heaven is at hand, and the Son of God cometh upon the face of the earth.10. And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God. Edited January 21, 2015 by thesometimesaint
Freedom Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 3 Nephi 26:21 does mention the Churches name "Church of Christ" And?
ex_nihilio Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 as for being a church of this man Joe Smith, and not a church of Christ Jesus, can you deny that the foundation of your entire religion is the teachings of this one man? if you were a church of Christ, you would honor Him - but wherever the teachings of the Lord Jesus contradict this false prophet of yours, you chose the man, and reject the Savior. "you have not chosen me, but I have chosen you" says the Lord. but your false teachers tell you that you chose Him. "I and the Father are one" says the Lord. but your false prophets tell you these are different gods, not even gods, but men. "I am not a man" says the Lord. but your self-exalted ones tell you He is a flesh and blood creature, made of dust, as you are. your foundation is not Jesus Christ -- you use His name to snare the innocent and make merchandise of those who follow after His name. as for "stains" -- These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.(Jude 12-13) These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.(Jude 16-19) you puff each other up and appeal to the carnal nature of yourselves, telling each other that you are gods and that you will ascend to the throne and be like the most high. you mention Jah and take on an appearance of godliness to be seen before each other but in your hearts you are motivated by your own vain pride, seeking to exalt yourselves and diminish the glory of the Eternal One. even the Muslims do not consider you "people of the book" i was not sent to pamper you and tickle your ears, but to testify against you. those that love the Truth hate lies, and whoever loves righteousness hates evil. go your way, ban me again, it is no matter. the Lord rebuke you, and He will send another, and another, until your ears are plugged up and scabbed over and you will bear the witness of His glory no more.
MormonFreeThinker Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Fair does admit Mormonism's view of God evolved after The Bible and Book of Mormon teach a self-exiting God Mosiah 3:5 and it does mention modalism which is taught in Ether 3:14, Mosiah 16:15 and Mosiah 15:3-4. The Book of Mormon clearly contradicts modalism "Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name." (3 Nephi 9:15) John 1:1 says "with God" which allows for many interpretations, but 3 Nephi 9:15 says "with the Father" Why would Mormonism view of God evolve if they were led by a omniscient God ? It just took some years for LDS to understand the nature of God, the earliest known written description of the Trinity dates to A.D. 444 Sechnall of Ireland "the Trinity of the sacred Name and teaches one being in three persons" (Hymn in Praise of St. Patrick 22 [A.D. 444]).http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-trinity Catholic Answers says, "The Vatican Council has explained the meaning to be attributed to the term mystery in theology. It lays down that a mystery is a truth which we are not merely incapable of discovering apart from Divine Revelation, but which, even when revealed, remains "hidden by the veil of faith and enveloped, so to speak, by a kind of darkness" (Cont., "De fide. cath.", iv). In other words, our understanding of it remains only partial, even after we have accepted it as part of the Divine message"http://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/trinity
MormonFreeThinker Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) "I and the Father are one" says the Lord. but your false prophets tell you these are different gods, not even gods, but men. I cannot believe in a doctrine that contradicts mathematics and logic. Trinity teaches 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 Simple math says 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 not 1. I cannot believe in a God that lived in ex nihilio. Edited January 21, 2015 by MormonFreeThinker
Calm Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 i was not sent to pamper you and tickle your ears, but to testify against you. Great, accomplished. You can now go and visit the fatherless and the widows and keep yourself unspotted from the world. 2
JLHPROF Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 as for being a church of this man Joe Smith, and not a church of Christ Jesus, can you deny that the foundation of your entire religion is the teachings of this one man? if you were a church of Christ, you would honor Him - but wherever the teachings of the Lord Jesus contradict this false prophet of yours, you chose the man, and reject the Savior. "you have not chosen me, but I have chosen you" says the Lord. but your false teachers tell you that you chose Him. "I and the Father are one" says the Lord. but your false prophets tell you these are different gods, not even gods, but men. "I am not a man" says the Lord. but your self-exalted ones tell you He is a flesh and blood creature, made of dust, as you are. your foundation is not Jesus Christ -- you use His name to snare the innocent and make merchandise of those who follow after His name. as for "stains" -- These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.(Jude 12-13) These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.(Jude 16-19) you puff each other up and appeal to the carnal nature of yourselves, telling each other that you are gods and that you will ascend to the throne and be like the most high. you mention Jah and take on an appearance of godliness to be seen before each other but in your hearts you are motivated by your own vain pride, seeking to exalt yourselves and diminish the glory of the Eternal One. even the Muslims do not consider you "people of the book" i was not sent to pamper you and tickle your ears, but to testify against you. those that love the Truth hate lies, and whoever loves righteousness hates evil. go your way, ban me again, it is no matter. the Lord rebuke you, and He will send another, and another, until your ears are plugged up and scabbed over and you will bear the witness of His glory no more. Intra, is that you? Creating a sock account after being banned will not go over well here...
ex_nihilio Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Great, accomplished. You can now go and visit the fatherless and the widows and keep yourself unspotted from the world.as it's written: For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.(2 Timothy 4:3-4) enjoy your gilded humanism while His patience with you remains. the one He grants a hearing ear will hear, and His purpose in hardening the hearts of those vessels fit for destruction cannot be thwarted.
Calm Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Intra, is that you? Creating a sock account after being banned will not go over well here...I don't think he cares. He is on a mission.
Mars Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I'm tellin' ya... The intra account is a Turing Test. Don't be duped! That's software you're talking to! A complex state machine!
Calm Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 as it's written: For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.(2 Timothy 4:3-4) It is unfortunate you do not recognize that this is written about you. 2
Calm Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I'm tellin' ya... The intra account is a Turing Test. Don't be duped! That's software you're talking to! A complex state machine!Just noted your Latin. Latin mottos rule! Edited January 21, 2015 by calmoriah 1
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Fair does admit Mormonism's view of God evolved after The Bible and Book of Mormon teach a self-exiting God Mosiah 3:5 and it does mention modalism which is taught in Ether 3:14, Mosiah 16:15 and Mosiah 15:3-4. Something Holy Catholics reject as heresy since we do not believe God the Father and Jesus are same person. The Athanasion Creed does say not confounding the persons [ mixing the up ] found in these same verses . Must be a dumb mistake like Alma 7:10 which says Jesus was born in Jerusalem when even in Micah 5:2 , 800 years before his birth got it right . Why would Mormonism view of God evolve if they were led by a omniscient God ? Seriously, I don't mind a serious discussion and when some one has valid concerns I will answer them. But when all some one does is go to some website and find "problems with the BoM" I take issue with that. You are essentially pretending to be concerned or interested in Mormonism. Alma 7:10 is an old debunked chestnut. It is not even worth responding too because it is such a dumb criticism.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 as for being a church of this man Joe Smith, and not a church of Christ Jesus, can you deny that the foundation of your entire religion is the teachings of this one man? if you were a church of Christ, you would honor Him - but wherever the teachings of the Lord Jesus contradict this false prophet of yours, you chose the man, and reject the Savior. "you have not chosen me, but I have chosen you" says the Lord. but your false teachers tell you that you chose Him. "I and the Father are one" says the Lord. but your false prophets tell you these are different gods, not even gods, but men. "I am not a man" says the Lord. but your self-exalted ones tell you He is a flesh and blood creature, made of dust, as you are. Joe Smith?So much for following Christ and trying to have an honest respectful dialogue. And you ripped those verses out of context. Jesus chose the 12. He is not talking about salvation in those verses. Some times you evangelical types need to check what you are spouting and actually get a grasp of what is being talked about instead of just regurgitating what your preacher said over the pulpit. Intra, you are will be banned again. Sock puppets are not allowed. You have given your self away. "He is a flesh and blood creature, made of dust, as you are"
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 as it's written: For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.(2 Timothy 4:3-4) enjoy your gilded humanism while His patience with you remains. the one He grants a hearing ear will hear, and His purpose in hardening the hearts of those vessels fit for destruction cannot be thwarted.Pot meet kettle. Paul specifically had you in mind when he wrote this.
ERayR Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Seriously, I don't mind a serious discussion and when some one has valid concerns I will answer them. But when all some one does is go to some website and find "problems with the BoM" I take issue with that. You are essentially pretending to be concerned or interested in Mormonism. Alma 7:10 is an old debunked chestnut. It is not even worth responding too because it is such a dumb criticism. And proving they are totally clueless. 2
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 And proving they are totally clueless.It is about as bad as the "Adieu" argument. Just so bad.
ERayR Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Some times you evangelical types need to check what you are spouting and actually get a grasp of what is being talked about instead of just regurgitating what your preacher said over the pulpit. This reminds me of what the adults used to ask me when I was a child prattling on. The used to ask "Do you talk just to hear yourself". 1
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 This reminds me of what the adults used to ask me when I was a child prattling on. The used to ask "Do you talk just to hear yourself".Rofl. Ha yeah.
Calm Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 And proving they are totally clueless.Or careless.
ERayR Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 It is about as bad as the "Adieu" argument. Just so bad. Some people talk without ever connecting their tongue to their brain.
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