Popular Post cinepro Posted January 5, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 5, 2015 In another thread, blubell claimed the following: Two of every four years of Sunday school is spent studying the bible. We only spend one of every four years on the BOM, for example. If you are going to debate our doctrine you have to at least understand it and speak of it accurately. Obviously, this is a common belief among LDS, that we are "studying the Bible" or "studying the Book of Mormon" in Gospel Doctrine class. But after 20 years of attending Gospel Doctrine classes, I think it's time to admit that no, we are not "studying the scriptures" in these classes. What we are doing is studying Gospel Doctrines (as implied by the name of the class), and using specific scriptures as resources during the year. So this year (2015), we will be studying Gospel Doctrines as taught by the Church in 2015, and using stories and quotes from the New Testament during this study. But this is not the same as "studying the New Testament". As an analogy, it would be like going to a class where you are "Studying the book To Kill a Mockingbird", and each week of the class was focused on a different subject. The first week, you study the culture of the southern USA in the 20th century, and as part of the study your teacher has you read a few paragraphs from TKAMB that mention the culture of the times. Then the next week, your lesson is on the US legal system, and your teacher has you read a few paraphrases from the book that describe the courtroom scenes. Then the next week, you study another subject, again with supporting illustrations from the book, including paraphrasing of the major plot points. By the end of the course, would you really say that you had "studied" To Kill a Mockingbird? No, you had studied several different subjects using TKAMB as a resource. Now, certainly class members could (and should) read the book on their own time. But that doesn't mean they studied it as part of the course. This may seem like a fine point, but I think it's something we at least need to acknowledge. 9
Buckeye Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Unfortunately, if the recent changes to BYU's curriculum are any guide, I fear we will be "studying the scriptures" even less in the future.
Guest Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 I think many you are projecting I "study", I read, buy resource material, and have many friends who do. Have you or others taken a poll, or just guessing. Not trying to be disagreeable, I just chose to give the benefit of the doubt.
Ahab Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 You have a very narrow view of what it means to study and what the Church, generally, is studying each year. And the point is not to study the scriptures in class but to discuss what the class members have supposedly studied in between class sessions. Just like when a student enrolls in a class in a college or university, you're supposed to have studied at least some of the material between class sessions. 2
The Nehor Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 I think they are using the word "study" in the high school sense of listening to someone drone on with the occasional factoid.
Popular Post Calm Posted January 5, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 5, 2015 Depends on the teacher….some of us actually do have the class read from the scriptures themselves and then discuss what those verses teach. 6
stemelbow Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Depends on the teacher….some of us actually do have the class read from the scriptures themselves and then discuss what those verses teach. Everybody has that. But I think his point still stands. By doing so we don't actually do much studying of the scriptures. We're just using them to highlight things we want, or have been told, to discuss. 3
bluebell Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Depends on the teacher….some of us actually do have the class read from the scriptures themselves and then discuss what those verses teach. And some members of the class actually do read the book in question (OT, NT, BOM or D&C) during the year they are taught and also follow along in the student booklet. But more to Cinepro's point, i also believe that your use of the word 'study' is way to narrow. 1
Guest Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 And some members of the class actually do read the book in question (OT, NT, BOM or D&C) during the year they are taught and also follow along in the student booklet. But more to Cinepro's point, i also believe that your use of the word 'study' is way to narrow.But the statement is that "we" don't...that is a broad brush. When I taught (25 years total either Gospel Doctrine or Gospel Essentials, I would ask before the next years study who wanted a guide that would insure the reading of that years study and all who would want me to call to keep them on track and then I would. Most who asked kept on track. I would hope hat all could be a little more charitable when when it comes to those in or out of our faith.
cinepro Posted January 5, 2015 Author Posted January 5, 2015 FWIW, I also have the same problem with the "Teachings of the Presidents of the Church" course for Priesthood/ RS. We just "studied" the teachings of Joseph Fielding Smith for a year (24 lessons). Can anyone tell me any distinctive teachings they learned last year? I remember a few stories from his life (I was especially touched by the story of him losing his son during WWII), but I can't think of a single unique "teaching".
cinepro Posted January 5, 2015 Author Posted January 5, 2015 Maybe to help me understand how peoples' classes go, you can answer this. For those of you who regularly attend LDS Gospel Doctrine classes, can you share some of the things you learned (in class) about the people, cultures, events and history of the Old Testament that were new to you?
Kenngo1969 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 ... I remember a few stories from his life (I was especially touched by the story of him losing his son during WWII), but I can't think of a single unique "teaching". [Emphasis added by Kenngo1969.]Movin' the goal posts a wee bit, are we, there, Friend? (Just askin'!)
Kenngo1969 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Maybe to help me understand how peoples' classes go, you can answer this. For those of you who regularly attend LDS Gospel Doctrine classes, can you share some of the things you learned (in class) about the people, cultures, events and history of the Old Testament that were new to you?Hmmm ... I don't think the class is entitled Gospel People, or Gospel Culture, or Gospel Events, or Gospel History ... It's entitled Gospel Doctrine. I suspect that's why you're confused. You're welcome! No problem! Glad I could clear that up for you! (And in any event, to borrow (once again!) the phrase from Stephen R. Covey that I've used so many times on this Board, we don't see the people, culture, events, or history of the Scriptures as they are; we see them as we are.) Edited January 5, 2015 by Kenngo1969 1
ERayR Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 FWIW, I also have the same problem with the "Teachings of the Presidents of the Church" course for Priesthood/ RS. We just "studied" the teachings of Joseph Fielding Smith for a year (24 lessons). Can anyone tell me any distinctive teachings they learned last year? I remember a few stories from his life (I was especially touched by the story of him losing his son during WWII), but I can't think of a single unique "teaching". If you had a magic wand and could make any changes you wanted what would studying the scriptures in Gospel Doctrine class look like? 1
Guest Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Movin' the goal posts a wee bit, are we, there, Friend? (Just askin'!)It would seem our side the stadium. BTW, painting with broad brushes is great for painting houses, but not for getting a detailed picture of people...especially not for many people. Just sayin Edited January 5, 2015 by Pa Pa
Kenngo1969 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 It would seem our side the stadium. BTW, painting with broad brushes is great for painting houses, but not for getting a detailed picture of people...especially not for many people. Just sayinWhat broad brush was I using?
bluebell Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Maybe to help me understand how peoples' classes go, you can answer this. For those of you who regularly attend LDS Gospel Doctrine classes, can you share some of the things you learned (in class) about the people, cultures, events and history of the Old Testament that were new to you? I'm not really sure why someone has to learn something new about the peoples, cultures, events, and history of the scriptures in order to be truthfully studying them. Like I said before, i think your definition of 'study' is way to narrow. When I study the scriptures, most of the new knowledge i acquire consists of spiritual knowledge that pertains to just me. If you sincerely want to know though, i can provide a few verses of scripture that I highlighted at different points during class last year where I learned something new that I didn't know or understand before. Edited January 5, 2015 by bluebell
danielwoods Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Hmmm ... I don't think the class is entitled Gospel People, or Gospel Culture, or Gospel Events, or Gospel History ... It's entitled Gospel Doctrine. I suspect that's why you're confused. You're welcome! No problem! Glad I could clear that up for you! (And in any event, to borrow (once again!) the phrase from Stephen R. Covey that I've used so many times on this Board, we don't see the people, culture, events, or history of the Scriptures as they are; we see them as we are.) When we study the bible in our church, we learn about the people, culture and events from their perspective, the key being, how did they interpret what was written originally to that group?
The Nehor Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 If you had a magic wand and could make any changes you wanted what would studying the scriptures in Gospel Doctrine class look like?Chuck the manuals and stick with the scriptures. Maybe assign certain chapters for the lesson. Start with students who all read the chapters commenting on insights, things they just noticed, and other tidbits. Foster an atmosphere of trust such that anyone can ask any question without humiliation. Have an environment where you can ask more difficult questions that you may not have an answer for. Let the class go where the questions lead it as long as they are rooted in scripture.While I am at it I will wish for a supermodel wife, a pastrami sub, my calling and election made sure, and a pony. 2
mass168 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Chuck the manuals and stick with the scriptures. Maybe assign certain chapters for the lesson. Start with students who all read the chapters commenting on insights, things they just noticed, and other tidbits. Foster an atmosphere of trust such that anyone can ask any question without humiliation. Have an environment where you can ask more difficult questions that you may not have an answer for. Let the class go where the questions lead it as long as they are rooted in scripture.While I am at it I will wish for a supermodel wife, a pastrami sub, my calling and election made sure, and a pony.Winnerrrrrr
Kenngo1969 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) ... While I am at it I will wish for a supermodel wife, a pastrami sub, my calling and election made sure, and a pony. P.S.: The pony thing sounds like a consolation prize for those (many! ) of us who didn't luck out in the Supermodel Wife Department. Edited January 5, 2015 by Kenngo1969
Kenngo1969 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Chuck the manuals and stick with the scriptures. Maybe assign certain chapters for the lesson. ...This part of your wish might not be so far outside the realm of possibility, if the Worldwide General Sunday School Training I recently attended is any indication.
The Nehor Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 This part of your wish might not be so far outside the realm of possibility, if the Worldwide General Sunday School Training I recently attended is any indication. I have been doing it for years when I teach. While part of me applauds the move if it is happening I am also concerned. I am not sure if all our teachers can do it.
ERayR Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Chuck the manuals and stick with the scriptures. Maybe assign certain chapters for the lesson. Start with students who all read the chapters commenting on insights, things they just noticed, and other tidbits. Foster an atmosphere of trust such that anyone can ask any question without humiliation. Have an environment where you can ask more difficult questions that you may not have an answer for. Let the class go where the questions lead it as long as they are rooted in scripture.While I am at it I will wish for a supermodel wife, a pastrami sub, my calling and election made sure, and a pony. You really area dreamer.
Kenngo1969 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 When we study the bible in our church, we learn about the people, culture and events from their perspective, the key being, how did they interpret what was written originally to that group? Such an approach has its usefulness from certain perspectives. By no means am I arguing that such an approach isn't useful. Conversely, one of the things Latter-day Saints are encouraged to do (though by no means is it the only sanctioned approach) is to "liken all scripture unto us, that it might be for our profit and learning" (1 Nephi 19:23).
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