Can We Please Be Done Debating With Trinitarians?

[smac97]

No, I believe we believe in EXACTLY the Christ of the Bible.  We don't believe in the sectarian Christ who was just one part of the essence of God made incarnate.

"The sectarian Christ" is the Christ of the Bible. We are (Mormons, Catholics, Protestants, etc.) therefore speaking of the same numerical being, but we have differing understandings of his nature, attributes, etc.

I don't like it when sectarian critics accuse us of worshipping "another Christ." I don't think we should reciprocate the insult. It is incorrect either way.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Anakin7]

       I am so Thankful that ONLY 1 person who ever walked this Earth has the authority and right to say if I enter Heaven or not. Not anyone else - no one.

 

In His Debt/Grace

       Anakin7

[JLHPROF]

"The sectarian Christ" is the Christ of the Bible. We are (Mormons, Catholics, Protestants, etc.) therefore speaking of the same numerical being, but we have differing understandings of his nature, attributes, etc.

I don't like it when sectarian critics accuse us of worshipping "another Christ." I don't think we should reciprocate the insult. It is incorrect either way.

Thanks,

-Smac

 

And that's why we end up with 133 page threads that convince nobody of anything.

I agree with your analysis of the situation, but if the nature and attributes we worship are different from the nature and attributes they believe he possess then by most definitions, they are different beings.  That is all I am conceding.

[JLHPROF]

       I am so Thankful that ONLY 1 person who ever walked this Earth has the authority and right to say if I enter Heaven or not. Not anyone else - no one.

 

In His Debt/Grace

       Anakin7

 

Hmm...I could comment against this, but that would be derailing my own thread...

[Calm]

Not really JLH. For fifteen years I have seen you guys worry about what Protestants think. I would be one of you before I could ever be one of them. And I don't get why you guys care that they exclude you from their definition of Christianity.

For me it is because it interferes with people who truly want to understand our faith by setting up a wrong assumption that can at times take a good effort to overcome, especially if they have been thinking we aren't Christians since their youth and they think that means we don't believe in Christ, not that we understand his divine attributes in a different way.

If everyone was never misled by the Mormons are not Christians, it wouldn't bother me in the least at this point in my life.

[HOLY CATHOLIC]

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith page 370 teaches three gods in the Godhead contrary to the Book of Mormon

 

2 Nephi 31:21

 

Alma 11:44

 

Mormon 7:7

 

Mark 12:28-29

[bluebell]

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith page 370 teaches three gods in the Godhead contrary to the Book of Mormon

2 Nephi 31:21

Alma 11:44

Mormon 7:7

Mark 12:28-29

Please don't try to interpret our beliefs. You only end up looking silly.

Yes, LDS believe there are three Gods in the Godhead and yes, we believe there is one God.

We don't believe that is contradictory or contrary.

[HOLY CATHOLIC]

1X1X1= 1 in Orthodox Christianity, three separate and distinct persons represent the ONE GOD . Jesus prayed to a separate and distinct person, God the Father.

 

The 4th and 5th century Creeds define the Godhead as GOD, Essence, Substance and Being as synonym's . Always three when referring to persons , always ONE when referring to God

 

Mark 12:28-28 - 2 Nephi 32:21, Alma 11:44 and Mormon 7:7- The Book of Mormon clearly teaches the 4th and 5th century Creeds. I conclude the Book of Mormon was written by Creedal Professor or Teacher of them.

[HOLY CATHOLIC]

Maybe you could tell me what God the Father and The Holy Ghost were doing when Jesus "Jehovah GOD' was leading the people of Israel ?

 

Holy Catholics have always taught Jesus is the GREAT I AM, listen to songs like "Mary Did You KNOW" and " I Have Returned " to find out

[JLHPROF]

Maybe you could tell me what God the Father and The Holy Ghost were doing when Jesus "Jehovah GOD' was leading the people of Israel ?

 

Holy Catholics have always taught Jesus is the GREAT I AM, listen to songs like "Mary Did You KNOW" and " I Have Returned " to find out

 

What part of "it's pointless to debate trinitarians" don't you get?  We don't care if you disagree with our beliefs.

[Sevenbak]

Holy Catholic, welcome to the board.  You might want to read this before you start making a long list of seemingly accusatory posts.  It WILL help you understand the LDS position which you refer to.

 

Cheers.

 

 

DOES THE BOOK OF MORMON TEACH MAINSTREAM TRINITARIANISM OR MODALISM? 

 

http://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/bickmore-book-of-mormon-trinitarianism-or-modalism.pdf

[HOLY CATHOLIC]

Modalism is considered a heresy to Orthodox Christians. It teaches Jesus and God the Father are the same person. The Book of Mormon hints of the that in Ether 3:14, Mosiah 16:15 and Mosiah 15:3-4 , But Othodox Christians says the separate and distinct persons. Jesus did not pray to himself    

[HOLY CATHOLIC]

The Fair site does not clear up the issue

 

Modalism = One GOD , One Person

 

Trinitarians = ONE GOD, Three distinct and separate persons. Your Fair article does not address that  

[JLHPROF]

Modalism is considered a heresy to Orthodox Christians. It teaches Jesus and God the Father are the same person. The Book of Mormon hints of the that in Ether 3:14, Mosiah 16:15 and Mosiah 15:3-4 , But Othodox Christians says the separate and distinct persons. Jesus did not pray to himself    

 

No, those Book of Mormon verses do not teach that Christ is God the Father.  They teach that he becomes the father - http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Jesus_Christ,_Fatherhood_and_Sonship_of

 

Now please stop hijacking my thread.  There are two other threads where you can post this nonsense.

Board rules - "Derailing threads with irrelevant or unwanted commentary (i.e. If a discussion is about the nature of the Godhead, don't inject comments like, "There is no God." You can start your own thread about evidences of God's existence.)"

 

Please start your own thread on the Godhead of the Book of Mormon.

Edited January 5, 2015 by JLHPROF

[HOLY CATHOLIC]

Since I'm a Holy Catholic and Trinitarian and went to Private Christian Schools and Catechism I consider myself an expert in the Trinity Doctrine. It can summarized by saying " Within the Nature of the ONE ETERNAL GOD their is three separate and distinct Persons. EACH fully God , EACH self existent, None had a Father or Mother. Jesus became the son at incarnation "flesh" Mosiah 15:3-4  

[BCSpace]

We have two threads on why we aren't Christian and the topic keeps creeping into other threads.  It's also causing the evangelical attacks to multiply and preventing discussion of real gospel truth.

 

We won the debate decades, if not centuries ago. But new people are born everyday and ultimately will need this debate as per opposition in all things. The need for this debate, therefore, will never end.

 

Personally, I'm prepared to concede the following:

3. I do believe that we can become exactly like God and that God was once mortal.

5. I do not believe that God, Christ and the Holy Ghost share anything other than a purpose (see number 3).

 

You definitely disagree with official LDS doctrine on the highlighted point (See Gospel Principles ch 47). On the rest, you might also be in disharmony with official doctrine depending on what exactly you mean.

 

Do you disagree with, for example, the following verse sets:

 

Philippians 2:5-6

Revelation 3:21

 

?

 

The scriptures themselves testify that when we become Gods, we will have the same power and authority as God the Father.

 

So I say again, can we be done pointless trying to convince other religions who don't share our beliefs that we are right and focus on our own religion?  We might as well try and convince a Muslim that Mohammed wasn't a prophet.  Waste of time.

 

Such is never pointless. Also, it is impossible to 'focus on our own religion' without sharing our beliefs with others and attempting conversion. Such is the mission and doctrine of the Church.

Edited January 5, 2015 by BCSpace

[HOLY CATHOLIC]

So is "The Way"  a believer in modalism

[JLHPROF]

Since I'm a Holy Catholic and Trinitarian and went to Private Christian Schools and Catechism I consider myself an expert in the Trinity Doctrine. It can summarized by saying " Within the Nature of the ONE ETERNAL GOD their is three separate and distinct Persons. EACH fully God , EACH self existent, None had a Father or Mother. Jesus became the son at incarnation "flesh" Mosiah 15:3-4  

 

And it's still not true OR biblical.

[JLHPROF]

We won the debate decades, if not centuries ago. But new people are born everyday and ultimately will need this debate as per opposition in all things. The need for this debate, therefore, will never end.

 

 

You definitely disagree with official LDS doctrine on the highlighted point (See Gospel Principles ch 47). On the rest, you might also be in disharmony with official doctrine depending on what exactly you mean.

 

Do you disagree with, for example, the following verse sets:

 

Philippians 2:5-6

Revelation 3:21

 

?

 

The scriptures themselves testify that when we become Gods, we will have the same power and authority as God the Father.

 

 

Such is never pointless. Also, it is impossible to 'focus on our own religion' without sharing our beliefs with others and attempting conversion. Such is the mission and doctrine of the Church.

 

Gospel Principles Ch 47- You mean where it says "Joseph Smith taught: “It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God. … He was once a man like us; … God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 345–46)."

 

Sounds like mortal to me.

And I fail to see any conflict between those scriptures you provide and the points I listed as conceded.

[Kaleb Webb]

 

 

Quote

Personally, I'm prepared to concede the following:

3. I do believe that we can become exactly like God and that God was once mortal.

5. I do not believe that God, Christ and the Holy Ghost share anything other than a purpose (see number 3).

 

You definitely disagree with official LDS doctrine on the highlighted point (See Gospel Principles ch 47). On the rest, you might also be in disharmony with official doctrine depending on what exactly you mean.

 

Do you disagree with, for example, the following verse sets:

 

Philippians 2:5-6

Revelation 3:21

 

?

The point about God once being mortal doesn't contradict LDS doctrine according to Joseph Smith, who said that "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!" Lorenzo Snow also said that “As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be." Joseph later told Lorenzo that that couplet was a revelation to him.

But I'm derailing the thread here.

Anyway, JHL, I agree with pretty much all the points you conceded to.

[HOLY CATHOLIC]

What part of my statement is Not Biblical or disagreeing with the Book of Mormon. In Fact it is easier to prove from the pages of the Book of Mormon . Since the Book of Mormon completely agrees with the 4th and 5th century Creeds.

 

Mosiah 3:5

Mosiah 5:15

3 Nephi 19:18

3 Nephi 17:11

2 Nephi 26:12

 

2 Nephi 31:21

Alma 11:44

Mormon 7:7

 

I would have a hard time finding anything in the BOM that disagrees with the Creeds other than the modalism texts

[HOLY CATHOLIC]

Kaleb could you give me a quote that God was a man who progressed to God from the Book of Mormon ? Because the Book of Mormon I'm reading says he was ETERNALLY GOD Mosiah 3:5

[JLHPROF]

Can one of the Mods please lock this thread before it becomes a third "Godhead" debate thread instead of the discussion on debating religion it was intended to be?

 

Thank you.

[Scott Lloyd]

Maybe you could tell me what God the Father and The Holy Ghost were doing when Jesus "Jehovah GOD' was leading the people of Israel ?

 

Holy Catholics have always taught Jesus is the GREAT I AM, listen to songs like "Mary Did You KNOW" and " I Have Returned " to find out

Funny you should mention "Mary Did You Know?" in this context.

 

As the choir director in our ward (Mormon congregation) I arranged that song for performance by our choir a year ago at Christmas time. We performed it both at our sacrament meeting (worship service) just before Christmas and at a devotional put on in our stake (a group of wards) a week prior to that.

 

I can assure you I never would have selected it for performance had I found any of its content the least bit at odds with my doctrinal beliefs as a Mormon.

 

While I'm at it, I'll respond to the rest of your post by saying that I too believe Jesus is the great I AM, that He led the children of Israel (under the direction of His Father) and that the Holy Ghost has His own mission which, among other things, is to bear witness of Christ.

 

(I am not acquainted with the song "I Have Returned.")

Edited January 5, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[LittleNipper]

http:www.bing.com/videos/search?q=holy%2c+holy+holy+lord"god+almighty&FORM=VIRES#view=detail&mid=476325BE1B1054EBC410476325BE1B1054EBC410