Nofear Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 An interesting theory: http://mic.com/articles/104096/there-s-a-suicide-epidemic-in-utah-and-one-neuroscientist-thinks-he-knows-why. Renshaw believes that oxygen-poor air tampers with brain chemistry, leading to a drop in serotonin and an uptick in dopamine. Serotonin and dopamine are neurotransmitters, brain chemicals that relay signals between neurons and other cells. ... As Renshaw's theory goes, serotonin deficiency exacerbates symptoms of pre-existing anxiety and depression, increasing the likelihood of becoming suicidal (mental illness is a factor in about 90% of suicides). People with an existing mood disorder, or a predisposition to mental illness, would be more sensitive to the effects of waning serotonin levels. Women, who naturally have half as much serotonin as men, Renshaw said, are more likely to develop a mood disorder as a result of living in the mountains (about 24% of middle-aged women in Utah take an SSRI — double the national rate. The various anecdotes about anxious Utah women, Renshaw believes, bolster his theory). The theory bears more study and is preliminary. Comments to the article range widely in opinion. What's your take?
Calm Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) "Women, who naturally have half as much serotonin as men"That is the Curse of Eve if ever there was one.That is depressing just to read.Looks like I am not moving back to the beach though, less dopamine means more RLS for me, sigh. Edited November 17, 2014 by calmoriah
JAHS Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 I started a thread on this about 5 minutes before this one.
Scott Lloyd Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) It has been a favorite weapon of antagonists to blame the suicide rate in Western states, Utah among them, on the influence of the Church of Jesus Christ. Yet FairMormon Answers makes this observation: On a geographical basis, Utah performs well on low rates of suicide. This may be correlated to the willingness of Utah's population to seek treatment, as evidenced by rates of anti-depressant medication prescription. (See LDS antidepressant use.) Religion is generally protective against suicide, and studies on Latter-day Saints bear this out.It is unfortunate that critics wish to trivialize a serious problem such as suicide—a leading cause of death in the United States—by using it as a club to beat a specific religion. They do this without any data implicating the Church, and much data which argues against the patients' religion as a causative factor.Religion is generally a patient's ally in mental health. Cheap slogans and finger pointing do nothing to help address the real problems faced by the mentally ill who are at risk of depression, schizophrenia, and other risk factors for suicide. While Utah does well in comparison to its neighbors, there is clearly much to be done to understand the western United States' higher suicide rates, and to help lower the rates of suicide and attempted suicide nationally and internationally.Critics should avoid concluding that Utah data = Mormon data. This is often not true, and in this case the Mormon influence may be lowering Utah's suicide rates below those of its neighboring states.If we follow the flawed logic of the critics, one is better off as an American by not being a Southern Baptist, since states in which they are the most common religion almost always have worse suicide rates than the nation as a whole. Clearly this logic is specious and ought to be rejected. (Bold emphasis mine.) Now comes this study suggesting that the suicide rate may be due to environmental factors. Which lends support to the theory that, if anything, the Church may be a mitigating factor against the environmental conditions that lead to the high suicide rate. Edited November 18, 2014 by Scott Lloyd
Duncan Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 if altitude was the main factor then you would see high suicide rates in higher altitude areas of the world, I have no idea if that is true but just a thought
Scott Lloyd Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 I started a thread on this about 5 minutes before this one.This is the first one I saw, so i posted here. If you like, I'll repeat my post in your thread. Or maybe the moderators should consolidate the two.
pogi Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) An interesting theory: http://mic.com/articles/104096/there-s-a-suicide-epidemic-in-utah-and-one-neuroscientist-thinks-he-knows-why. The theory bears more study and is preliminary. Comments to the article range widely in opinion. What's your take? Wow, they are really stretching here. I don't think we can blame it on "oxygen-poor air". Are people who live in the Andes more prone to suicide than Utahns? Unless a person has pulmonary or cardiac dysfunction, their 02 saturations will be above 90%, even in Utah. That is NOT a deficiency. Edited November 17, 2014 by pogi
ERayR Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 An interesting theory: http://mic.com/articles/104096/there-s-a-suicide-epidemic-in-utah-and-one-neuroscientist-thinks-he-knows-why. The theory bears more study and is preliminary. Comments to the article range widely in opinion. What's your take? Laramie WY should be rampant with suicides in that case.
Judd Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) An interesting theory: http://mic.com/articles/104096/there-s-a-suicide-epidemic-in-utah-and-one-neuroscientist-thinks-he-knows-why.The theory bears more study and is preliminary. Comments to the article range widely in opinion. What's your take?The serotonin theory of depression is somewhat simplistic. Likewise, I would have a hard time using serotonin as a marker for depression when trying to correlate (assign cause?) with other arbitrary factors such as oxygen level. It's also important to realize that the marker we are using for depression in Utah is the usage of antidepressants. Actually being prescribed an antidepressant is a very multi factorial process and, to my knowledge, its correlation to actual serotonin levels (the measure that's being referenced in relation to oxygen) is unknown. It is somewhat difficult to know what the author's actual opinion is as many times as news articles seem to have a difficult time understanding and appreciating the nuances of what a researcher may or may not be suggesting.However, what this does emphasize the fact that geographical variance in things such as "antidepressant usage" is difficult to be ascribed to one convenient variable that may or may not fit someone's personal agenda. Edited November 18, 2014 by Judd
Nofear Posted November 18, 2014 Author Posted November 18, 2014 Mods should merge this thread to the other one?
thesometimesaint Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 Pure nonsense.SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
Scott Lloyd Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 Pure nonsense.SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rateWhile I'm agnostic thus far on this study, I don't see how it can be dismissed as "pure nonsense" merely by a blithe gesture toward a table of suicide rates in countries of the world. 1
thesometimesaint Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 While I'm agnostic thus far on this study, I don't see how it can be dismissed as "pure nonsense" merely by a blithe gesture toward a table of suicide rates in countries of the world. While correlation is not causation it is evidence of tendencies. The US ranks 34th of 101 countries studied in suicide rates. There really is no relationship between resident altitude and suicide.
Calm Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Still says nothing given you have not shown comparison by altitudes nor have you removed other possible factors that may confuse findings. 1
pogi Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 While I'm agnostic thus far on this study, I don't see how it can be dismissed as "pure nonsense" merely by a blithe gesture toward a table of suicide rates in countries of the world. I dismiss it on it's claim that the "oxygen-poor air" of Utah is the causative factor. If high elevation truly does increase risk for suicide, it is not related to blood oxygen saturation levels. I can assure you that unless you have a pulmonary or cardiac problem, your 02 saturation will not be deficient if you live in Utah to effect "brain chemistry." Our bodies acclimatize in the short run through increased respiration and heart rate, and in the long run with higher capillary concentration and hematological adaptation, etc. It only takes weeks to acclimatize. In other words, our bodies may go through some adaptations to acclimatize, but our brain chemistry is not effected from low 02. We maintain levels within normal limits.
Scott Lloyd Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I dismiss it on it's claim that the "oxygen-poor air" of Utah is the causative factor. If high elevation truly does increase risk for suicide, it is not related to blood oxygen saturation levels. I can assure you that unless you have a pulmonary or cardiac problem, your 02 saturation will not be deficient if you live in Utah to effect "brain chemistry." Our bodies acclimatize in the short run through increased respiration and heart rate, and in the long run with higher capillary concentration and hematological adaptation, etc. It only takes weeks to acclimatize. In other words, our bodies may go through some adaptations to acclimatize, but our brain chemistry is not effected from low 02. We maintain levels within normal limits.As I said, I'll give it a while before I dismiss it out of hand.
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