JLHPROF Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) I created a thread (that got very big) a while back called something like "The God I Believe In Wouldn't"... I am starting to see this phrase reappearing in posts in various forms again and I thought I'd resurrect the topic (if you'll pardon the expression). On the board right now I can find people saying:- that God wouldn't ask polygamy of women- that God would send someone who had a sex change to hell- that God doesn't work in secret- that God wouldn't ask someone to kill another (family or stranger) Anyway, these are just current examples, but the idea behind them is all the same. We think we know what God would and wouldn't do, and that God ONLY does things that make us feel good and make us happy.In other words, the Old Testament God doesn't exist, and only the love everyone all the time evangelical NT God exists. So I ask as I did before - where do we get these ideas about what God would and wouldn't do (because they certainly aren't in the scriptures) and are we just trying to make him in our "21st Century Western Civilization Morality Image"? And should we stop? Edited September 5, 2014 by JLHPROF 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Everyone has their preset view concerning God. I view Heavenly Father as loving all of His children, even His transgendered children and wants them to return to Him. 1
Calm Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 "evangelical NT God"You mean the one that sends everyone to hell if they don't believe in the evangelical version? Evangelical is a wide umbrella, some of which see the saved as a minute number, others are more universal. I have no clue where the median lies.
omni Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Count me as one who sees the god of the OT as one I don't believe in. He's exactly the kind of god one would expect to come from the place and time the OT was written. A god who's xenophobic, commands his children to commit genocide, blames natural disasters and birth defects on sin, has a complete misunderstanding of science and natural processes, and places an unwavering worship of him above all else. 1
ERayR Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I created a thread (that got very big) a while back called something like "The God I Believe In Wouldn't"... I am starting to see this phrase reappearing in posts in various forms again and I thought I'd resurrect the topic (if you'll pardon the expression). On the board right now I can find people saying:- that God wouldn't ask polygamy of women- that God would send someone who had a sex change to hell- that God doesn't work in secret- that God wouldn't ask someone to kill another (family or stranger) Anyway, these are just current examples, but the idea behind them is all the same. We think we know what God would and wouldn't do, and that God ONLY does things that make us feel good and make us happy.In other words, the Old Testament God doesn't exist, and only the love everyone all the time evangelical NT God exists. So I ask as I did before - where do we get these ideas about what God would and wouldn't do (because they certainly aren't in the scriptures) and are we just trying to make him in our "21st Century Western Civilization Morality Image"? And should we stop? I think it depends on your understanding of what the mortal experience is. For those who envision it as simply a creation (starting place) and then on to life with God it should be all protected and happy. Those who look an mortal probation as some kind of a hands off test understand God of a necessity must generally keep a basic hands off approach and that this is, in the long run, a very short experience.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I can't wait to be reunited with God and thank Him for my life. 1
Jeanne Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Ouch...I got in a sort of trouble when I said that "God wouldn't" or something to that fact. I made people cringe??? The thing is, how are we to know God unless we have perceptions of what a God would do? Hugs,Jeanne
Tacenda Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) My God isn't the OT God, I'll admit that right up front, and why I dislike a lot of the scriptures, it brings to mind what that God will do, even in the BoM. Strike me down now I guess. But that God isn't whom I want to spend eternity with. In fact if that is the case, I wish I'd never been born at all. And how sad if that God is the one, because I will have pure hell the rest of my eternal life with no end in sight, so then bring on the Atheism view! ETA: I need to clarify I believe a lot of scripture is man made to scare people into good behavior. Edited September 5, 2014 by Tacenda 1
mfbukowski Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I created a thread (that got very big) a while back called something like "The God I Believe In Wouldn't"... I am starting to see this phrase reappearing in posts in various forms again and I thought I'd resurrect the topic (if you'll pardon the expression). On the board right now I can find people saying: - that God wouldn't ask polygamy of women - that God would send someone who had a sex change to hell - that God doesn't work in secret - that God wouldn't ask someone to kill another (family or stranger) Anyway, these are just current examples, but the idea behind them is all the same. We think we know what God would and wouldn't do, and that God ONLY does things that make us feel good and make us happy. In other words, the Old Testament God doesn't exist, and only the love everyone all the time evangelical NT God exists. So I ask as I did before - where do we get these ideas about what God would and wouldn't do (because they certainly aren't in the scriptures) and are we just trying to make him in our "21st Century Western Civilization Morality Image"? And should we stop?So your god would have a sex change? Would Jesus have had one? 2
mfbukowski Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 "evangelical NT God" You mean the one that sends everyone to hell if they don't believe in the evangelical version? Evangelical is a wide umbrella, some of which see the saved as a minute number, others are more universal. I have no clue where the median lies.The problem is they don't either. They blame us for having confused doctrine while theirs doesn't exist. 1
Tsuzuki Posted September 6, 2014 Posted September 6, 2014 So I ask as I did before - where do we get these ideas about what God would and wouldn't do (because they certainly aren't in the scriptures) and are we just trying to make him in our "21st Century Western Civilization Morality Image"? And should we stop? 21st Century Modern Civilization morality is superior to (give or take) 10th Century BCE Desert Nomad morality, and I look forward to our ideas about God evolving as we ourselves progress. 2
ERayR Posted September 6, 2014 Posted September 6, 2014 Ouch...I got in a sort of trouble when I said that "God wouldn't" or something to that fact. I made people cringe??? The thing is, how are we to know God unless we have perceptions of what a God would do? Hugs,Jeanne The problem with that is that you are make God fit your image instead of you making you in his image.
ERayR Posted September 6, 2014 Posted September 6, 2014 My God isn't the OT God, I'll admit that right up front, and why I dislike a lot of the scriptures, it brings to mind what that God will do, even in the BoM. Strike me down now I guess. But that God isn't whom I want to spend eternity with. In fact if that is the case, I wish I'd never been born at all. And how sad if that God is the one, because I will have pure hell the rest of my eternal life with no end in sight, so then bring on the Atheism view! ETA: I need to clarify I believe a lot of scripture is man made to scare people into good behavior. Such theatrics. How would you change him and the way he runs things and still not mess up choice and agency?
Tacenda Posted September 6, 2014 Posted September 6, 2014 Such theatrics. How would you change him and the way he runs things and still not mess up choice and agency?You mean there's a possible career in store?
ERayR Posted September 6, 2014 Posted September 6, 2014 You mean there's a possible career in store? Just land the right roles and you should do fine.
Teancum Posted September 6, 2014 Posted September 6, 2014 Everyone creates God in their own image. An Orthodox Mormon accepts what someone else tells them about God. A Catholic, EV christian or Muslim does the same. Then when someone deviates from their selected orthodoxy they modify. Unless God has appeared to you directly how can you really know what God is? 2
The Nehor Posted September 6, 2014 Posted September 6, 2014 Everyone creates God in their own image. An Orthodox Mormon accepts what someone else tells them about God. A Catholic, EV christian or Muslim does the same. Then when someone deviates from their selected orthodoxy they modify. Unless God has appeared to you directly how can you really know what God is? From when he communicates directly. We create God in out own image because while people may think other people are more skilled, more intelligent, more learned, more attractive, more charismatic, more insightful, and more talented it is very rare that people imagine others are more wise then them. Why should God be any different?
Guest Posted September 7, 2014 Posted September 7, 2014 I created a thread (that got very big) a while back called something like "The God I Believe In Wouldn't"... I am starting to see this phrase reappearing in posts in various forms again and I thought I'd resurrect the topic (if you'll pardon the expression). On the board right now I can find people saying:- that God wouldn't ask polygamy of women- that God would send someone who had a sex change to hell- that God doesn't work in secret- that God wouldn't ask someone to kill another (family or stranger) Anyway, these are just current examples, but the idea behind them is all the same. We think we know what God would and wouldn't do, and that God ONLY does things that make us feel good and make us happy.In other words, the Old Testament God doesn't exist, and only the love everyone all the time evangelical NT God exists. So I ask as I did before - where do we get these ideas about what God would and wouldn't do (because they certainly aren't in the scriptures) and are we just trying to make him in our "21st Century Western Civilization Morality Image"? And should we stop?It has always been man's nature to try and create God in "his" own image, rather than see the truth that we are created in "His" image.
mfbukowski Posted September 7, 2014 Posted September 7, 2014 Count me as one who sees the god of the OT as one I don't believe in. He's exactly the kind of god one would expect to come from the place and time the OT was written. A god who's xenophobic, commands his children to commit genocide, blames natural disasters and birth defects on sin, has a complete misunderstanding of science and natural processes, and places an unwavering worship of him above all else.Unfortunately guess what- that is the best any of us can do. This thread presumes that somehow we can find out "what God is really like" and present an image or representation which is "correct". Guess what, all? We cannot. God will always be what we make him out to be. It can't be otherwise. For me, the LDS God is what inspires me to be the best human I can possibly be to become "like" him. I don't think humans can dream up a better model for God than that. A cloud of nothing or "Force" is nothing I can relate to, nor emulate, nor can such a vague concept change anyone's life. No thanks, I will take the LDS God any day.
mfbukowski Posted September 7, 2014 Posted September 7, 2014 The problem with that is that you are make God fit your image instead of you making you in his image.That is a subtle distinction and you are right! If God is not our Ideal in every way,- meaning someone we must aspire to be like- he is a useless vague concept which cannot change one's life.
Bikeemikey Posted September 7, 2014 Posted September 7, 2014 Beats making god in someone else's image!
thesometimesaint Posted September 7, 2014 Posted September 7, 2014 I created a thread (that got very big) a while back called something like "The God I Believe In Wouldn't"... I am starting to see this phrase reappearing in posts in various forms again and I thought I'd resurrect the topic (if you'll pardon the expression). On the board right now I can find people saying:- that God wouldn't ask polygamy of women- that God would send someone who had a sex change to hell- that God doesn't work in secret- that God wouldn't ask someone to kill another (family or stranger) Anyway, these are just current examples, but the idea behind them is all the same. We think we know what God would and wouldn't do, and that God ONLY does things that make us feel good and make us happy.In other words, the Old Testament God doesn't exist, and only the love everyone all the time evangelical NT God exists. So I ask as I did before - where do we get these ideas about what God would and wouldn't do (because they certainly aren't in the scriptures) and are we just trying to make him in our "21st Century Western Civilization Morality Image"? And should we stop? Love God, and love our fellow man. The one thing God will not do is violate our agency. It is we that choose to do evil and hateful things, and then blame God for it.
Kind Debater Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 Count me as one who sees the god of the OT as one I don't believe in. He's exactly the kind of god one would expect to come from the place and time the OT was written. A god who's xenophobic, Please state the evidence for this. "...and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed" (Gen 22:18) commands his children to commit genocide, "They did not destroy the peoples, as the Lord commanded them, but they mixed with the nations and learned to do as they did. They served their idols, which became a snare to them. They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons; they poured out innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was polluted with blood." (Ps 106:34-48) blames natural disasters and birth defects on sin, has a complete misunderstanding of science and natural processes, Again, please state your evidence for these claims. and places an unwavering worship of him above all else. Well, yeah...do LDS not think that God wants us to worship him?
Bikeemikey Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 Please state the evidence for this."...and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed" (Gen 22:18)"They did not destroy the peoples,as the Lord commanded them,but they mixed with the nationsand learned to do as they did.They served their idols,which became a snare to them.They sacrificed their sonsand their daughters to the demons;they poured out innocent blood,the blood of their sons and daughters,whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan,and the land was polluted with blood." (Ps 106:34-48)Again, please state your evidence for these claims.Well, yeah...do LDS not think that God wants us to worship him?Cherry pick much?The OT is a giant xenophobic genocidal rant broken up periodically by fornication, rape, incest and adultery!Is it scripture, sure. Just because it is scripture does not mean it can not also be xenophobic etc.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 I love God. Heavenly Father can be whatever image He pleases and I will love Him dearly and know He loves me dearly. 2
Recommended Posts