rockpond Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Images of the survey from the Church regarding the activity around Ordain Women. http://mormonstories.org/how-the-lds-church-does-marketing-research-around-progressive-issues/ It seems that the OW group is having some amount of impact and/or someone is paying attention.
Popular Post ERayR Posted August 14, 2014 Popular Post Posted August 14, 2014 Images of the survey from the Church regarding the activity around Ordain Women. http://mormonstories.org/how-the-lds-church-does-marketing-research-around-progressive-issues/ It seems that the OW group is having some amount of impact and/or someone is paying attention. Pardon me if I don't put much credence in anything from this source. 8
rockpond Posted August 14, 2014 Author Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) deleted Edited August 14, 2014 by rockpond
The Nehor Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 The primary impact appears to be threads on this board. 4
tonie Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Pardon me if I don't put much credence in anything from this source.Because it is much easier to simply to give an ad hom attack, than it is to explore the veracity of a claim.Is a Spokesperson for the Church a good enough source, although it is a salt lake tribune article from Peggy Fletcher Stack?The survey went to "1,000 randomly selected men and women who are active members of the church from the United States," LDS Church spokesman Dale Jones said Wednesday in a statement. "Participation is voluntary and individual responses are anonymous and confidential." 2
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Because it is much easier to simply to give an ad hom attack, than it is to explore the veracity of a claim.Is a Spokesperson for the Church a good enough source, although it is a salt lake tribune article from Peggy Fletcher Stack?The survey went to "1,000 randomly selected men and women who are active members of the church from the United States," LDS Church spokesman Dale Jones said Wednesday in a statement. "Participation is voluntary and individual responses are anonymous and confidential."Ad hom? OK.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 The primary impact appears to be threads on this board.IOW, minimal.
ERayR Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Because it is much easier to simply to give an ad hom attack, than it is to explore the veracity of a claim. Did I say anywhere that he has a bad hairdo? 1
BlueDreams Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Because it is much easier to simply to give an ad hom attack, than it is to explore the veracity of a claim.Is a Spokesperson for the Church a good enough source, although it is a salt lake tribune article from Peggy Fletcher Stack?The survey went to "1,000 randomly selected men and women who are active members of the church from the United States," LDS Church spokesman Dale Jones said Wednesday in a statement. "Participation is voluntary and individual responses are anonymous and confidential." To be fair, looking at the source is helpful on this. There was almost no context to MS's presentation of these questions. There's a little bit more in the peggy fletcher article that gives a lot less umph to this being all that amazing. If they're wanting to gauge the impact of controversial issues effecting the church I would be more shocked if they didn't have a couple of questions about women in the church, since it's been a hot topic for the last 2 years (at least). With luv,BD 3
stemelbow Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 A few weeks ago, end of June, maybe, our bishop was instructed by the SP to talk about the issues raised in our joint RS/Priesthood. There was a great deal of negativity and resentment expressed from the members. One thing I piped up and tried to point out, much to the chagrin of the audience, was the positives that is coming out of this. I think the positives will continue unravel. Women will someday, perhaps, play a more significant role in church matters. Hope so. 3
Popular Post Erin15 Posted August 14, 2014 Popular Post Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) Women will someday, perhaps, play a more significant role in church matters. Hope so.I think the overwhelming majority of LDS women are wise enough to understand that part of discipleship is serving where you are called to serve, in the way you are called to serve. Aspiring for position and prestige is incompatible with the submission Jesus requires of us. Edited August 14, 2014 by Erin15 5
Popular Post BlueDreams Posted August 14, 2014 Popular Post Posted August 14, 2014 I think the overwhelming majority of LDS women are wise enough to understand that part of discipleship is serving where you are called to serve, in the way you are called to serve. Aspiring for position and prestige is incompatible with the submission Jesus requires of us. I think this is a false dichotomy, Erin. One that basically shuts down important dialogue for maintaining the status quo. I don't agree with OW, but I don't agree that marking the need for change in terms of concerns of gender and women with more equitable roles is vying for position and prestige. With luv,BD 7
DBMormon Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) Pardon me if I don't put much credence in anything from this source.what sources do you trust? I think it is a cop-out to always write off sources that you deem as been biased differently than your bias? I am sure the survey is fake simply because I disagree with with the website and its creator..... nonsense Edited August 14, 2014 by DBMormon
sethpayne Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Pardon me if I don't put much credence in anything from this source. Yeah. Those screen shots are absolutely faked. Just like the Apollo missions. All a ruse. Good grief. 1
sethpayne Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 what sources do you trust? I think it is a cop-out to always write off sources that you deem as been biased differently than your bias? Eray doesn't trust sources that challenge or disagree with his worldview.
DBMormon Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) ERAYR it seems you may have been wrong on its trustworthiness http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58293555-78/church-women-lds-members.html.csp Edited August 14, 2014 by DBMormon
sethpayne Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 ERAYR it seems you may have been wrong on its trustworthiness http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58293555-78/church-women-lds-members.html.csp I'm telling you, Bill. This is a conspiracy. There is no way that the Brethren would ever respond to concerns raised by members in a loud, public way. And besides, you are quoting the Trib. We all know that is the apostate paper. Until I see in in the DN -- it is simply untrue.
sethpayne Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) Did I say anywhere that he has a bad hairdo? No. But you dismissed the information presented based on John Dehlin's character. That is the classic definition of an ad hominem. But of course, the use of ad hominem is a valid form of argumentation as there are times when the nature/character of the person making an argument IS relevant to the argument itself. This instance, however, is not one of those times. Edited August 14, 2014 by sethpayne
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 I would never have known about the Ordain Women movement if it wasn't for this board. 1
Calm Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 No. But you dismissed the information presented based on John Dehlin's character. That is the classic definition of an ad hominem. But of course, the use of ad hominem is a valid form of argumentation as there are times when the nature/character of the person making an argument IS relevant to the argument itself. This instance, however, is not one of those times.Or he might have dismissed it based on his past experiences of accuracy fo information coming from this particular source.Is saying I don't trust the credibility of this source for this issue because my experience is that it has misrepresented many other issues ad hom? 4
sethpayne Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Or he might have dismissed it based on his past experiences of accuracy fo information coming from this particular source.Is saying I don't trust the credibility of this source for this issue because my experience is that it has misrepresented many other issues ad hom? Well, but this wasn't a situation where John Dehlin was *simply* reporting a rumor. He was reporting a rumor with some very accurate-looking screen shots. Given that there was dismissal with no regard to the actual evidence presented, I would say that yes, this was an ad hominem argument. I would be in complete agreement with you if the *only* thing we had was the report of a rumor. JD has not always been a reliable source of rumors alone. But since this was a case of rumor + evidence .... I think it is a slightly different case. It's like dismissing the 1826 trial documents because of the (dishonest) way they were obtained -- although I know there is some debate about that. It doesn't matter how the docs were obtained or who provided them. The how and who have absolutely nothing to do with the content of the documents.
CV75 Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 It seems that the OW group is having some amount of impact and/or someone is paying attention.It would rather seem that the OW group is paying attention to the same issues the Church is, just in a different way.
sethpayne Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 It would rather seem that the OW group is paying attention to the same issues the Church is, just in a different way. Do you really think the Church had this survey prepared before OW began making noise?
rockpond Posted August 14, 2014 Author Posted August 14, 2014 It would rather seem that the OW group is paying attention to the same issues the Church is, just in a different way.Yep, I know... the fact that women were invited to pay in GC for the first time after the petition was submitted was just coincidence. It was already scheduled to happen. And the opening up of priesthood session to be watched live at home had nothing to do with the OW request. And pictures of the female leaders would have appeared on the walls of the conference center even without the publicity brought about by these groups.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Yeah. Those screen shots are absolutely faked. Just like the Apollo missions. All a ruse. Good grief.Straw men are useful sometimes. I don't think that Ray thinks that what he said is fake. That is you imposing that on to him. He was basically saying that he doesn't care for what JD says even if it is true. 1
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