Tacenda Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 I forget which of the Great Lakes but if you drained it, the water would cover all of North America in 2 feet of water, that just one lakeWell, I have heard someone can die in just a tablespoon of water.
Anijen Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 So David was an idiot?Rob, This type of answer is why so many here do not take you seriously. They were what David believed at the time. I think if David (or whoever may have added upon them) lived today and had a better grasp of science he would write something different. This in no way takes away all the good things or sacred things and spiritual uplifting things from Psalms. How do you get "so David was an idiot?" out of my post Of course I do not believe David was an idiot at all. I did not imply it in anyway. You asked about the Psalms you posted, I replied. My point again for you is David did not have the same knowledge about the earth as we do today. David did not know the way mountains are formed and spoke to what he and others thought at the time.
Rob Osborn Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Rob, This type of answer is why so many here do not take you seriously. How do you get "so David was an idiot?" out of my post Of course I do not believe David was an idiot at all. I did not imply it in anyway. You asked about the Psalms you posted, I replied. My point again for you is David did not have the same knowledge about the earth as we do today. David did not know the way mountains are formed and spoke to what he and others thought at the time. This is all your opinion. You have no idea what David believed in. You automatically assume that he was limited in his knowledge but what is that based upon? You are pretty much saying that because he did not have access to modern science that he was without knowledge. You assume that just because you have a different view then David must have thus been wrong.
Duncan Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 That is assuming we built a giant retaining wall around North America to keep it from sloshing out. Pass it onto the Macgyver, he can build anything!!!
Anijen Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 This is all your opinion. You have no idea what David believed in. You automatically assume that he was limited in his knowledge but what is that based upon? You are pretty much saying that because he did not have access to modern science that he was without knowledge. You assume that just because you have a different view then David must have thus been wrong.This is all your opinion. Yes. You have no idea what David believed in. I think I do, since I can read. You automatically assume that he was limited in his knowledge but what is that based upon? Well, its based on advances in science, technology, education, literacy etc. An example of this is I assume David did not have the knowledge of television, the internet etc. You are pretty much saying that because he did not have access to modern science that he was without knowledge. No, not even close. I am saying he lived back then and not today. His knowledge was the knowledge he gained from those times. You assume that just because you have a different view then David must have thus been wrong. I do not assume that at all. Your reading comprehension is very poor or you are in the bad habit of putting meanings into peoples post that are not there. Which brings back my question; how do you get "so David was an idiot?" out of my post? 1
mfbukowski Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 So what part of the flood is a symbol?There are so many it is hard to count. The ark of the covenant, like Noah's ark, shows that covenant people will be saved. It is a temple- a place of salvation. The ark had three decks, like the sacred areas of the temple. The celestial terrestrial and telestial kingdoms have three levels and are the salvation of the Lord's people because they keep his covenants. The NT teaches about the ark in this context as well- that the Savior visited the spirits in prison-" Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." Note that they were saved BY water- not from the water. Baptism. Water is symbolic of re-birth- the carnal man "dies" in the waters of baptism and is raised anew - reborn, as from the waters of his mother's womb- into salvation, just as Noah was in the story. The evil people died, and the good people were saved and mankind was reborn anew. Noah is another Adam, an Adam saved by his covenant and so also therefore a predecessor of Christ who saves us through the covenants. Moses was another leader of Israel who was saved in an ark through covenants, after coming through the waters. Another parallel with the temple is that the ark rested on a mountain top- the temple is the mountain of the Lord, and contained the ark of the covenant. Noah is Gabriel who announced the pregnancy of Mary- the mother of the savior who would come from the waters of her womb to save the world. That's a start. 1
mfbukowski Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Well, I have heard someone can die in just a tablespoon of water. Or it can save your life
mfbukowski Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Wikipedia on Noah According to 2 Peter 2:5, Noah is considered a "preacher of righteousness". Of the Gospels in the New Testament, the Gospel of Luke compares Noah's Flood with the coming Day of Judgement: "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so too it will be in the days of the coming of the Son of Man."[26]The First Epistle of Peter compares the saving power of baptism with the Ark saving those who were in it. In later Christian thought, the Ark came to be compared to the Church: salvation was to be found only within Christ and his Lordship, as in Noah's time it had been found only within the Ark. St Augustine of Hippo (354–430), demonstrated in The City of God that the dimensions of the Ark corresponded to the dimensions of the human body, which corresponds to the body of Christ; the equation of Ark and Church is still found in the Anglican rite of baptism, which asks God, "who of thy great mercy didst save Noah," to receive into the Church the infant about to be baptised.In medieval Christianity, Noah's three sons were generally considered as the founders of the populations of the three known continents, Japheth/Europe, Shem/Asia, and Ham/Africa, although a rarer variation held that they represented the three classes of medieval society – the priests (Shem), the warriors (Japheth), and the peasants (Ham).In Latter-day Saint theology, the angel Gabriel lived in his mortal life as the patriarch Noah. Gabriel and Noah are regarded as the same individual; Noah being his mortal name and Gabriel being his heavenly name.[27]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah
The Nehor Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 So David was an idiot?Stop projecting your own flaws onto poor David. It got bad enough with the whole murder affair coverup that he does not need you making it worse for him.
halconero Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 So David was an idiot?Rob, the apostle Paul believed (and taught) in the early part of his ministry that Jesus' 2nd coming was imminent, and that there would be no resurrection at his coming. He later changed his views. Was he an idiot?Idiocy =/= ignorance.
mnn727 Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) No, but it does contain truths about the past- events that shaped the earth and humanity. The creation, flood and division of the earth by water was three of those historical events.That's your beliefs, not mine, and not many other peoples beliefs either. Edited May 11, 2014 by mnn727
mnn727 Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) So David was an idiot?An idiot? No, but David was a man of his times, having learned what knowledge (correct or incorrect) that was available during his lifetime.The sun revolved around the Earth which was flat would be just one example of what he "knew" Edited May 11, 2014 by mnn727
cinepro Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 When we start using our hymnbook to establish doctrine I will let the Psalms do likewise. An organist who has the sensitivity to quietly play prelude music from the hymnbook tempers our feelings and causes us to go over in our minds the lyrics which teach the peaceable things of the kingdom. If we will listen, they are teaching the gospel, for the hymns of the Restoration are, in fact, a course in doctrine! Reverence Invites Revelation, Boyd K. Packer
Rob Osborn Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 That's your beliefs, not mine, and not many other peoples beliefs either. I would bet the majority of LDS believe in the literalness of the creation, flood and division of the land as told and taught in our scriptures and church.
Rob Osborn Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 There are so many it is hard to count. The ark of the covenant, like Noah's ark, shows that covenant people will be saved. It is a temple- a place of salvation. The ark had three decks, like the sacred areas of the temple. The celestial terrestrial and telestial kingdoms have three levels and are the salvation of the Lord's people because they keep his covenants. The NT teaches about the ark in this context as well- that the Savior visited the spirits in prison-" Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." Note that they were saved BY water- not from the water. Baptism. Water is symbolic of re-birth- the carnal man "dies" in the waters of baptism and is raised anew - reborn, as from the waters of his mother's womb- into salvation, just as Noah was in the story. The evil people died, and the good people were saved and mankind was reborn anew. Noah is another Adam, an Adam saved by his covenant and so also therefore a predecessor of Christ who saves us through the covenants. Moses was another leader of Israel who was saved in an ark through covenants, after coming through the waters. Another parallel with the temple is that the ark rested on a mountain top- the temple is the mountain of the Lord, and contained the ark of the covenant. Noah is Gabriel who announced the pregnancy of Mary- the mother of the savior who would come from the waters of her womb to save the world. That's a start. The most important thing to remember is that the flood was an actual global event.
thesometimesaint Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Well, I have heard someone can die in just a tablespoon of water. It's two teaspoons.
Alan Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 One of the problems as I see it is that many assume the mountains were the same or similar height as they are now.I don't feel that is a safe assumption. 2
thesometimesaint Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 One of the problems as I see it is that many assume the mountains were the same or similar height as they are now.I don't feel that is a safe assumption. The Himalayas are loosing about an inch per year to erosion. The Indian Subcontinent is smashing into Asia about at inch per year because of continental drift. The Himalayas are gaining about an inch per year. It all balances out so that Mount. Everest has been the same size for a while.
The Nehor Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 I would consider the hymnbooks a course in doctrine too but a rather shoddy imprecise one.
The Nehor Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 The most important thing to remember is that the flood was an actual global event. The most important thing to remember is that Christ took upon himself the sins of the world and that through his redemption all can return to live with God. The physical peculiarities of a flood several millenia ago ranks roughly in importance with figuring out what method God used to make messages appear on the liahona. 3
thesometimesaint Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 I would consider the hymnbooks a course in doctrine too but a rather shoddy imprecise one. I don't, not because they are imprecise. But because they are too specific in many cases. Marching off to war, Following a cross, Flashing Swords, Hacking off the arms of people. The imagery just doesn't appeal to me anymore.
The Nehor Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 I don't, not because they are imprecise. But because they are too specific in many cases. Marching off to war, Following a cross, Flashing Swords, Hacking off the arms of people. The imagery just doesn't appeal to me anymore. If you are talking about the hymn I think you are (Onward Christian Soldiers?) then the enemy is sin personified, not people.
thesometimesaint Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 If you are talking about the hymn I think you are (Onward Christian Soldiers?) then the enemy is sin personified, not people. I understand that. It is the imagery I no longer find appealing.
Rob Osborn Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 The most important thing to remember is that Christ took upon himself the sins of the world and that through his redemption all can return to live with God. The physical peculiarities of a flood several millenia ago ranks roughly in importance with figuring out what method God used to make messages appear on the liahona. Kindly let me rephrase. The most important aspect in the flood story is that it was a global catastrophe not some localized event. Just is it was a global event we also in our day have been warned to follow and take heed to the prophets and repent because again, a worldwide catastrophe is coming only this time it will be by fire. 1
The Nehor Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Kindly let me rephrase. The most important aspect in the flood story is that it was a global catastrophe not some localized event. Just is it was a global event we also in our day have been warned to follow and take heed to the prophets and repent because again, a worldwide catastrophe is coming only this time it will be by fire.Will this fire cover Mt Everest though?
Recommended Posts