Are They Really "prophets, Seers & Revelators?"

[Bikeemikey]

Of course there are prophets and seers

Except when they are speaking as normal humans.

So I guess sometimes they are prophets and seers.

[Kenngo1969]

... I accept that divine inspiration is found in Mormon practice and doctrine. That does not, however, prove that it's the best or one true version of truth. I could find divine guidance in other non-mormon or even non-Christian religions and none of you are going to hold that up as evidence that they are "the one." I don't believe in "one true church" or "one true way."

 

Here's one approach: http://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/toward-interreligious-oneness/

Edited April 20, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[mfbukowski]

On the off chance anyone cares, here is that Rorty quote from P 4-5 of Contingency, Irony and Solidarity

 

We need to make a distinction between the claim that the world is out there and the claim that the truth is out there.  To say that the world is out there, that it is not our creation, is to say, with common sense, that most things in space and time are the effects of causes which do not include human mental states.  To say that truth is not out there is simply to say that where there are no sentences there is no truth, that sentences are elements of human languages and that human languages are human creations.

Truth cannot be out there - cannot exist independently of the human mind- because sentences cannot so exist, or be out there.  The world is out there, but descriptions of the world are not.  Only descriptions of the world can be true or false.  The world on its own- unaided by the describing activities of human beings- cannot.

 

 

[wenglund]

Here is what I relearned in church yesterday:

 

When Israel became separated from Moses, or rather the more the people of God are separated from the prophets, the more likely they are to devolve into idolatry and hedonism. (Exodus 32)

 

Of course, in our elevated state, this principle doesn't apply to us today.

 

I suppose that the same may be said in reverse: The more God's people devolve into idolatry and hedonism, the more they are separated from the prophets.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Ahab]

It was not meant to be cute. It is a serious suggestion. I have worn one on my more sensitive days.

And the other suggestions I made don't have to go all the way to SLC to make a change.

You are acting like this is just a fun little drama for you to play in with a starring role on the board while for many in the sister's situation it may be life or death or if not that extreme, at least whether or not she is a prisoner of her own health or able to find something that allows her to walk among her friends again.

Rest assured that the situation is being handled.

And there is no need for you to be so dramatic..

[Calm]

And there is no need for you to be so dramatic..

You were the one suggesting you needed to appeal to the presiding bishop,knock out walls, set up church in a big tent..rather than simply take a few common sense approaches.

[Ahab]

You were the one suggesting you needed to appeal to the presiding bishop,knock out walls, set up church in a big tent..rather than simply take a few common sense approaches.

I talked about how any change to a Church building or Church property would need the approval of the presiding bishop, and I shared some of the many ideas various people had shared during a brain storming session that went on during a high priest group meeting.

I suppose I could have just shared the simple common sense ideas like the ones that you shared, but I was trying to give a more accurate sense of the ideas we came up with during that meeting that would have required the approval of the presiding bishop because that was the whole point of why I shared that example.

If I had wanted to share an example of when the approval of a presiding bishop is not needed I could have come up with another example, ya know

[Calm]

If the sole purpose was to show there could be valid reasons to contact the presiding bishop, I don't think you were successful since there would be no need with simpler solutions at hand and apparently taking care of the problem.

Contacting someone with authority is always an option, people write letters all the time, but they are sent to their bishops because the solution is seen as better coming on a local level.

Edited April 22, 2014 by calmoriah

[Bikeemikey]

Here is what I relearned in church yesterday:

When Israel became separated from Moses, or rather the more the people of God are separated from the prophets, the more likely they are to devolve into idolatry and hedonism. (Exodus 32)

Of course, in our elevated state, this principle doesn't apply to us today.

I suppose that the same may be said in reverse: The more God's people devolve into idolatry and hedonism, the more they are separated from the prophets.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

You forgot to add that the prophet left the people with another prophet.

So when a prophet leaves people for a period of time with Aaron, also a prophet of a kind, maybe more like an apostle, or the presiding bishop, they go astray.

[Ahab]

If the sole purpose was to show there could be valid reasons to contact the presiding bishop, I don't think you were successful since there would be no need with simpler solutions at hand and apparently taking care of the problem.

Contacting someone with authority is always an option, people write letters all the time, but they are sent to their bishops because the solution is seen as better coming on a local level.

Sounds like you'd just rather get rid of our presiding bishop while Catholics would rather have someone to govern their local bishops.

I'm sure we could come up with some solution.

[Calm]

You are not good at mind reading. All I was commenting on was your attempted argument.

[mfbukowski]

You forgot to add that the prophet left the people with another prophet.

So when a prophet leaves people for a period of time with Aaron, also a prophet of a kind, maybe more like an apostle, or the presiding bishop, they go astray.

I saw a statement recently by, I think M. Russell Ballard that Aaron already had the Melchizadec Priesthood before he was ordained to the Aaronic, because the Aaronic is an "appendage" of the M.

 

I thought that was an interesting idea.

[Ahab]

You are not good at mind reading. All I was commenting on was your attempted argument.

Your perception of my argument.

You are not good at understanding what I mean by my words.

[mfbukowski]

Your perception of my argument.

You are not good at understanding what I mean by my words.

Knowing Cal well, I must say that says a lot more about your words than it does her ability to understand English.

[randy]

"Are they really Prophets, Seers and Revelators"?  This is such and excellent question.  I just want to offer my thoughts on this...and I will be coming from a slightly different angle. This may be kinda long...so I apologize in advance....I tend to get a little wordy. 

 

For some background..I'm almost 57 yrs..my wife and I got married very young (just turned 16 by a few weeks)....my wife was baptized in the church shortly after we married.  As one might expect....we found ourselves in a very difficult situation with a little one on the way. We were trying our best to start our married life off in the best positive way we could given the difficulties that inevitably lied ahead of us in trying to graduate from HS....plus getting a job to support ourselves..etc  Suffice it to say...we had a lot on our plate.

 

Okay....that was in 1973...fast forward to 1977-78 and I was working as a laborer on the Indep.Mo. Stake center along side my best friend whose dad was the Stake President at the time. Well, one day as we were working....my buddy told me..."hey, guess what...my dad got a call last night from Pres. Kimball's Exec. Sec telling him that Pres. Kimball and "others" would be in Independence the next evening "late" but wanted to meet with him and the Mission Pres. at the Mission home which was right next to the Stake center.

 

Of course I asked what the meeting was about....which he didn't know....but as you would expect it was exciting to think about.  By this time my wife and I were struggling in the worst way...although we were both striving very hard to live the gospel as best as we could.  Since the time we got married....in many of my prayers I asked God regarding the divinity and truthfulness of this gospel I was trying so hard to embrace.  I never really received an answer...although I did receive a degree of peace in my heart...which at the time was "answer enough".

 

But when I heard Pres. Kimball was going to be here (and I'm not given to celebrity) I so wanted to just see him....to be in his presence, asking God that perhaps if I could..and if "He" could arrange it....I should like to meet him so I can receive my witness.  hahaha...I know I know....somewhat presumptious on my part...but......

 

So, the next day at work I was able to extract through waterboarding...not really...but pretty close, from my buddy that the meeting was going to be at around 9pm and would last about an hour or so.  hahahaha....that was all I needed to know.

 

So that evening...my wife and I just "happened" to be outside the Mission home around 1015 pm when out came Pres.Kimball...followed shortly thereafter by Pres. Tanner, Bro. D. Arthur Haycock and others.  Pres. Kimball looked at me and smiled...never said a word...went straight to my wife...cupped her face in his hands and kissed her on the cheek and told her "I love you"...then turned to me and told me..."you be sure and always love and cherish her".  I said "I will President".  That was 37yrs ago....we've been married over 40 yrs...we have 6 kids...and 19 grandchildren now.

 

I want to share my witness....that at that moment in time....the Lord knew exactly what I needed to feel and to know in order for me to weather the storms that were coming my way. I have zero doubt that at that moment in time....in the presence of the Lord's Prophet...just the three of us.....the Holy Ghost bore witness to me in the most simple, yet most powerful and unmistakeable way to a 20yr old young Father of two kids now...that I was standing in the presence of the Lord's Prophet.  Even as I type this now....all these many years later, I get teary eyed thinking how merciful the Lord was to me that night.  He knew what I needed most at that moment...and he gave it to me...and that witness is as strong at this moment as it was then.

 

So, yes....doctrinal issues aside.....I know without doubt they are "Prophets, Seers and Revelators".  I remember the title of talk given in General Conference given by Elder Anderson of the Twelve Apostles entitled "It's True isn't it? What else Matters?"   So for me, again at that moment in time...I knew in my heart and in my spirit that Pres. Kimball was a Prophet of God, and in the word of the Prophet Joseph......."I knew it, and I knew God knew it...and I could not deny it."

 

This was a singular sacred and mountaintop experience for me for which I'm so eternally grateful and thankful for.

[sheilauk]

thank you for sharing that special moment, Randy.

[teddyaware]

"Are they really Prophets, Seers and Revelators"?  This is such and excellent question.  I just want to offer my thoughts on this...and I will be coming from a slightly different angle. This may be kinda long...so I apologize in advance....I tend to get a little wordy. 

 

For some background..I'm almost 57 yrs..my wife and I got married very young (just turned 16 by a few weeks)....my wife was baptized in the church shortly after we married.  As one might expect....we found ourselves in a very difficult situation with a little one on the way. We were trying our best to start our married life off in the best positive way we could given the difficulties that inevitably lied ahead of us in trying to graduate from HS....plus getting a job to support ourselves..etc  Suffice it to say...we had a lot on our plate.

 

Okay....that was in 1973...fast forward to 1977-78 and I was working as a laborer on the Indep.Mo. Stake center along side my best friend whose dad was the Stake President at the time. Well, one day as we were working....my buddy told me..."hey, guess what...my dad got a call last night from Pres. Kimball's Exec. Sec telling him that Pres. Kimball and "others" would be in Independence the next evening "late" but wanted to meet with him and the Mission Pres. at the Mission home which was right next to the Stake center.

 

Of course I asked what the meeting was about....which he didn't know....but as you would expect it was exciting to think about.  By this time my wife and I were struggling in the worst way...although we were both striving very hard to live the gospel as best as we could.  Since the time we got married....in many of my prayers I asked God regarding the divinity and truthfulness of this gospel I was trying so hard to embrace.  I never really received an answer...although I did receive a degree of peace in my heart...which at the time was "answer enough".

 

But when I heard Pres. Kimball was going to be here (and I'm not given to celebrity) I so wanted to just see him....to be in his presence, asking God that perhaps if I could..and if "He" could arrange it....I should like to meet him so I can receive my witness.  hahaha...I know I know....somewhat presumptious on my part...but......

 

So, the next day at work I was able to extract through waterboarding...not really...but pretty close, from my buddy that the meeting was going to be at around 9pm and would last about an hour or so.  hahahaha....that was all I needed to know.

 

So that evening...my wife and I just "happened" to be outside the Mission home around 1015 pm when out came Pres.Kimball...followed shortly thereafter by Pres. Tanner, Bro. D. Arthur Haycock and others.  Pres. Kimball looked at me and smiled...never said a word...went straight to my wife...cupped her face in his hands and kissed her on the cheek and told her "I love you"...then turned to me and told me..."you be sure and always love and cherish her".  I said "I will President".  That was 37yrs ago....we've been married over 40 yrs...we have 6 kids...and 19 grandchildren now.

 

I want to share my witness....that at that moment in time....the Lord knew exactly what I needed to feel and to know in order for me to weather the storms that were coming my way. I have zero doubt that at that moment in time....in the presence of the Lord's Prophet...just the three of us.....the Holy Ghost bore witness to me in the most simple, yet most powerful and unmistakeable way to a 20yr old young Father of two kids now...that I was standing in the presence of the Lord's Prophet.  Even as I type this now....all these many years later, I get teary eyed thinking how merciful the Lord was to me that night.  He knew what I needed most at that moment...and he gave it to me...and that witness is as strong at this moment as it was then.

 

So, yes....doctrinal issues aside.....I know without doubt they are "Prophets, Seers and Revelators".  I remember the title of talk given in General Conference given by Elder Anderson of the Twelve Apostles entitled "It's True isn't it? What else Matters?"   So for me, again at that moment in time...I knew in my heart and in my spirit that Pres. Kimball was a Prophet of God, and in the word of the Prophet Joseph......."I knew it, and I knew God knew it...and I could not deny it."

 

This was a singular sacred and mountaintop experience for me for which I'm so eternally grateful and thankful for.

For reasons I don't really understand, I've been placed on what's called "limited" status on this discussion board. I'm only able to make a limited number of posts per day and I'm also unable to give reputation points to posts I believe deserve recognition. So if I wasn't on limited status I'd give you a rep point. But I'd have written this note of thanks anyway because your story filled my heart with the Spirit and tears of joy filled my eyes just as they did yours. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to allow the Spirit to testify to me once again that Spence w, Kimball truly was a Prophet of God. I'm so grateful that you took the time. All the best to you, your bride and your family...

Edited April 24, 2014 by teddyaware

[randy]

Teddy and Sheila,

 

Thank you for these kind words.  Ya know....it really is amazing that over the years...after all the church related books I've read...all the Sacrament meetings, PH meetings, Conferences etc etc...which have all been great and have helped strengthen my testimony...none of them have even come close to being able to replicate what I felt and came to know that night at 1015pm.. standing on a little sidewalk at 305 W. Pleasant st. in Indep. Mo.  No crowds...no big entourages...no camera's...nothing....just me, my wife and the Prophet of the Lord.  The whole experience probably didn't last a total of 120 seconds...yet I remember it and feel it as though it just happened a moment ago, and which has lasted me all these years..and which I'm certain will last me until I've finished my turn on earth.  It was my witness....just for me, for when I needed it most.  I truly shake my head in amazement at the love Jesus does truly offer me.  Thank you both again.

 

It's true isn't it?  Then what else matters?

[mfbukowski]

"Are they really Prophets, Seers and Revelators"?  This is such and excellent question.  I just want to offer my thoughts on this...and I will be coming from a slightly different angle. This may be kinda long...so I apologize in advance....I tend to get a little wordy. 

 

For some background..I'm almost 57 yrs..my wife and I got married very young (just turned 16 by a few weeks)....my wife was baptized in the church shortly after we married.  As one might expect....we found ourselves in a very difficult situation with a little one on the way. We were trying our best to start our married life off in the best positive way we could given the difficulties that inevitably lied ahead of us in trying to graduate from HS....plus getting a job to support ourselves..etc  Suffice it to say...we had a lot on our plate.

 

Okay....that was in 1973...fast forward to 1977-78 and I was working as a laborer on the Indep.Mo. Stake center along side my best friend whose dad was the Stake President at the time. Well, one day as we were working....my buddy told me..."hey, guess what...my dad got a call last night from Pres. Kimball's Exec. Sec telling him that Pres. Kimball and "others" would be in Independence the next evening "late" but wanted to meet with him and the Mission Pres. at the Mission home which was right next to the Stake center.

 

Of course I asked what the meeting was about....which he didn't know....but as you would expect it was exciting to think about.  By this time my wife and I were struggling in the worst way...although we were both striving very hard to live the gospel as best as we could.  Since the time we got married....in many of my prayers I asked God regarding the divinity and truthfulness of this gospel I was trying so hard to embrace.  I never really received an answer...although I did receive a degree of peace in my heart...which at the time was "answer enough".

 

But when I heard Pres. Kimball was going to be here (and I'm not given to celebrity) I so wanted to just see him....to be in his presence, asking God that perhaps if I could..and if "He" could arrange it....I should like to meet him so I can receive my witness.  hahaha...I know I know....somewhat presumptious on my part...but......

 

So, the next day at work I was able to extract through waterboarding...not really...but pretty close, from my buddy that the meeting was going to be at around 9pm and would last about an hour or so.  hahahaha....that was all I needed to know.

 

So that evening...my wife and I just "happened" to be outside the Mission home around 1015 pm when out came Pres.Kimball...followed shortly thereafter by Pres. Tanner, Bro. D. Arthur Haycock and others.  Pres. Kimball looked at me and smiled...never said a word...went straight to my wife...cupped her face in his hands and kissed her on the cheek and told her "I love you"...then turned to me and told me..."you be sure and always love and cherish her".  I said "I will President".  That was 37yrs ago....we've been married over 40 yrs...we have 6 kids...and 19 grandchildren now.

 

I want to share my witness....that at that moment in time....the Lord knew exactly what I needed to feel and to know in order for me to weather the storms that were coming my way. I have zero doubt that at that moment in time....in the presence of the Lord's Prophet...just the three of us.....the Holy Ghost bore witness to me in the most simple, yet most powerful and unmistakeable way to a 20yr old young Father of two kids now...that I was standing in the presence of the Lord's Prophet.  Even as I type this now....all these many years later, I get teary eyed thinking how merciful the Lord was to me that night.  He knew what I needed most at that moment...and he gave it to me...and that witness is as strong at this moment as it was then.

 

So, yes....doctrinal issues aside.....I know without doubt they are "Prophets, Seers and Revelators".  I remember the title of talk given in General Conference given by Elder Anderson of the Twelve Apostles entitled "It's True isn't it? What else Matters?"   So for me, again at that moment in time...I knew in my heart and in my spirit that Pres. Kimball was a Prophet of God, and in the word of the Prophet Joseph......."I knew it, and I knew God knew it...and I could not deny it."

 

This was a singular sacred and mountaintop experience for me for which I'm so eternally grateful and thankful for.

Wow.

 

Thanks.

[mfbukowski]

Teddy and Sheila,

 

Thank you for these kind words.  Ya know....it really is amazing that over the years...after all the church related books I've read...all the Sacrament meetings, PH meetings, Conferences etc etc...which have all been great and have helped strengthen my testimony...none of them have even come close to being able to replicate what I felt and came to know that night at 1015pm.. standing on a little sidewalk at 305 W. Pleasant st. in Indep. Mo.  No crowds...no big entourages...no camera's...nothing....just me, my wife and the Prophet of the Lord.  The whole experience probably didn't last a total of 120 seconds...yet I remember it and feel it as though it just happened a moment ago, and which has lasted me all these years..and which I'm certain will last me until I've finished my turn on earth.  It was my witness....just for me, for when I needed it most.  I truly shake my head in amazement at the love Jesus does truly offer me.  Thank you both again.

 

It's true isn't it?  Then what else matters?

Yes it is!!!

[sheilauk]

 

It was my witness....just for me, for when I needed it most.  I truly shake my head in amazement at the love Jesus does truly offer me. 

 

I feel like that too.

 

Thank you both again.

 

You're welcome!  Thank you.

 

It's true isn't it?  Then what else matters?

 

Yes.  Exactly!

[Avatar4321]

Been reviewing Conference this past week. I read Elder Ballards talk and the Spirit confirmed to me that they really are prophets, seers, and revelators. Especially his challenge to invite at least one person to meet with the missionaries every three months. It's what I needed to hear. And I am taking up the challenge.

[randy]

Avatar.....you are so right!   For me....being the simple man that I am....I figure it this way. The Lord has given me a sure knowledge that there is a Prophet on the earth. With that pure knowledge...which of course solidified my testimony that Christ lives and that prayers are truly answered. I am reminded of what Pres. Hinckley counseled when he exhorted us to just "be a little better each day than the day before".  We do not have to eat the whole elephant at one sitting, but rather just a bite at a time...over time.  We just need to be sure and make a little progress each day.

 

I'm reminded of what a good Bishop that I served with back in the day always used to say...he' say...."Randy....just remember this...all we need to do each morning is to remember to turn toward the light...literally and figuratively. Just turn toward the light. I've always remembered that.   So yes....all we need to do is to open our mouths every once in a while when prompted....go out on that willow limb and test the Lord that he will not steady it for us. Open our mouths and trust that the Lord will put some words in it that won't totally embarrass and humiliate us!    We can do this!!  I know we can!  I believe in you....that you can do it..and that miracles will be wrought because of your striving to do the Lord's will.

 

I will be looking forward to hearing from you in the coming weeks and months...of some of your Heaven sent opportunities!  Proud of you!