A Simple Question For Latter-Day Saint Friends

[FormerLDS]

HmmmMMMMmmmmm........

[Scott Lloyd]

I am not worried I just don't feel like playing his/her childish games.

Agreed.

 

I'm finished here.

[JLHPROF]

Well, let's see - according to my religion and scripture:

 

1. Did I exist as some kind of intelligence (self aware) prior to my spirit birth  - check

2. Did I live before I came here in some form - check.

3. Am I alive now in some form - check

4. Will I be alive after I die in some form - check (everyone except sons of perdition)

5. No matter where I end up assuming I don't suffer the second death will I continue to live and progress forever - check

 

So during what part of eternity am I not alive?

Edited April 7, 2014 by JLHPROF

[FormerLDS]

Well, let's see - according to my religion and scripture:

 

1. Did I exist as some kind of intelligence (self aware) prior to my spirit birth  - check

2. Did I live before I came here in some form - check.

3. Am I alive now in some form - check

4. Will I be alive after I die in some form - check (everyone except sons of perdition)

5. No matter where I end up assuming I don't suffer the second death will I continue to live and progress forever - check

 

So during what part of eternity am I not alive?

 

Hence my question, "Do you have eternal life?"

 

"Verily, verily, I say unto you , He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."  John 5:24

[Brian 2.0]

Well, let's see - according to my religion and scripture:

 

1. Did I exist as some kind of intelligence (self aware) prior to my spirit birth  - check

2. Did I live before I came here in some form - check.

3. Am I alive now in some form - check

4. Will I be alive after I die in some form - check (everyone except sons of perdition)

5. No matter where I end up assuming I don't suffer the second death will I continue to live and progress forever - check

 

So during what part of eternity am I not alive?

 

"Eternal Life" is a phrase used in scripture to define something specific.  Something beyond simply "living forever".   LDS theology makes a distinction between immortality and eternal life...  and "eternal life" isn't simply about being alive throughout eternity.

[Brian 2.0]

Hence my question, "Do you have eternal life?"

 

"Verily, verily, I say unto you , He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."  John 5:24

 

"Everlasting Life" is not a direct parallel to "Eternal Life" by LDS definition.

[Brian 2.0]

"Everlasting Life" is not a direct parallel to "Eternal Life" by LDS definition.

 

well... maybe it is. 

 

LDS search for "everlasting life" say "SEE Eternal Life"  HA!

[JLHPROF]

"Eternal Life" is a phrase used in scripture to define something specific.  Something beyond simply "living forever".   LDS theology makes a distinction between immortality and eternal life...  and "eternal life" isn't simply about being alive throughout eternity.

Oh, I know that.  My overly-simplistic logic response was to the overly-simplified original silly question.

 

Which allowed to OP to pounce with:

 

Hence my question, "Do you have eternal life?"

 

"Verily, verily, I say unto you , He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."  John 5:24

 

To which I will now respond with:

 

1. In the pre-earth life I heard his word and believed on him.

2. In this life I heard his word and believed on him.

3. In the next life I am sure to hear his word and continue to believe him.

 

So yes, I both live eternally and have eternal life.  Got them both covered.

[teddyaware]

Teddyaware, while I can appreciate your personal observation, I would say that Paul had not "already attained" that which is mentioned in the previous verse and not "eternal life" (just my opinion).

 FLDS

 

Paul is not just talking about the resurrection in these verses (something that comes upon the unjust as well as the just without any need for faith in Christ). Rather, he was pressing on toward perfection and the high calling of God; and that's why he said he was not yet perfect nor had he already fully attained the high calling of God. Like Paul says of himself in verse 13, the Latter-day Saints are taught to (paraphrasing) "count not ourselves to have apprehended: but this one thing we do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, we press on toward the prize of the fullness of eternal reward and glory."

[Brian 2.0]

I actually am surprised that I am the only "no" response. 

 

Would those that answer "yes" say "yes" to this simple addition...  "Do you have the gift of eternal life?"

 

I understand that the OP raised an overly simplistic question and may be trying to pose a gotcha trap, and his definition of eternal life may be differently from LDS definition of eternal life... but why try to answer using his definition, or standard Christianity's definition...

 

why not say... "No.  We believe God's gift of Eternal Life is to live in God's presence.  We are currently on earth in our mortal probation and look forward to returning to live with God and have Eternal Life."

[Gray]

I have no idea.

[teddyaware]

Hence my question, "Do you have eternal life?"

 

"Verily, verily, I say unto you , He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."  John 5:24

Believing in God is not as simple as a mere acknowledgement of His existence and expressions of gratitude and appreciation for the salvation He offers man. Believing God means not only believing in Him, but it also means believing His word enough to do what He command us to do. In the following verses from Luke, the Lord Himself tells us what's actually involved in truly believing in Him:

44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

7 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was foundedupon a rock. (Luke 6)

 

The above words of the Lord perfectly express the true meaning of believing in God, as accepted by the LDS Church.

 

Edited April 7, 2014 by teddyaware

[Brian 2.0]

HmmmMMMMmmmmm........

I gave you my definition (taken from LDS.org) of Eternal Life and said no to your poll question. I assume you would agree that by that same definition you also do not currently have eternal life.

Feel free to share your definition of Eternal Life at this point in our discussion if you disagree with my definition.

[teddyaware]

I gave you my definition (taken from LDS.org) of Eternal Life and said no to your poll question. I assume you would agree that by that same definition you also do not currently have eternal life.

Feel free to share your definition of Eternal Life at this point in our discussion if you disagree with my definition.

Some confusion may be due to the fact that there's a difference between the promise of eternal life ("the earnest of our inheritance" spoken of by Paul) and eternal life as experienced by the resurrected and glorified sons and daughters of God.

Edited April 7, 2014 by teddyaware

[FormerLDS]

True, not every one that says "Lord, Lord" shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of the Father which is in heaven.

 

What then is the "will of the father"?

 

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" John 6:40

[Brian 2.0]

Some confusion may be due to the fact that there's a difference between the promise of eternal life (the earnest of our expectation spoken of by Paul) and eternal life as experienced by the resurrected and glorified sons and daughters of God.

Agreed.

I would also add that there is a fundamental difference between Protestant Christianity and LDS theology as to how set it stone that promise is, and how contingent that promise is based on the future actions of "enduring to the end."

[teddyaware]

True, not every one that says "Lord, Lord" shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of the Father which is in heaven.

 

What then is the "will of the father"?

 

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" John 6:40

There's a lot more to it than that. Try the beatitudes for a starter and serving and doing good "unto the least of these my brethren." And as I already said, believing in Him also means believing what He says and doing what He commands us to do. Even the devils believe, but they don't do what God commands. We must do what He says. And He commands us to many more things than just what's said in that isolated verse. Why is so much of the New Testament spent on telling us about the many things the Lord wants us to do if they are ultimately unnecessary?

But it is also true that the only way a man can be truly obedient to God is to do His will by the inspiration and power of the Holy Ghost. Otherwise our works are dead and we are just going through the motions, like the very religious -- though spiritually dead -- enemies of Christ who demanded His crucifixion.

23 And Christ truly said unto our fathers: If ye have faith ye can do all things which are expedient unto me.

24 And now I speak unto all the ends of the earth—that if the day cometh that the power and gifts of God shall be done away among you, it shall be because of unbelief.

25 And wo be unto the children of men if this be the case; for there shall be none that doeth good among you, no not one. For if there be one among you that doeth good, he shall work by the power and gifts of God. (Moroni 10)

Edited April 8, 2014 by teddyaware

[Akboy]

So how does this verse fit with the LDS definition of Eternal Life?

 

1 John 5

¹³ These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

He doesn't say 'You may know you're on the path to eternal life.' No, he just says you may know. And, yes, I know that's not the modern idea of 'believe.' It's not an empty belief that doesn't change behavior. Faith without works is dead. But once you have real belief and a living faith, that's enough. God sees your heart and knows the validity of your belief. You don't need to prove it to Him or anyone else. The Bible does NOT say we need to endure to the end to have eternal life.

 

Secondly, that belief in Christ, the trusting in His atonement, isn't just the start of the Gospel, it's the whole Gospel. Paul makes it very clear if we try to add works to the gospel as a way of progressing, we are foolishly putting ourselves under a curse and rejecting Christ.

 

Gal. 3

³ Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

 

Gal. 5

² Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision (symbolic of works in general), Christ will be of no advantage to you.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Akboy

[Calm]

Everyone seems worried you might spring a "hah! Gotcha!" on us if we say yes.

 

Well, I am perfectly comfortable saying "Yes", in my religion I believe I have eternal life.

 

Spring away.

Look at his post count. Some of us who have been around awhile remember him from the past.

[Calm]

Still at it Mark...

So you remember this as a common theme of Former in the past as well perhaps?

[thesometimesaint]

Look at his post count. Some of us who have been around awhile remember him from the past.

 

While I a firm believer in once burned twice cautious. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Anywho If he burns us it says more about him than it does about us.

[Calm]

While I a firm believer in once burned twice cautious. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Anywho If he burns us it says more about him than it does about us.

It has been a lot of years. I am open to people changing always...but starting out in the same way that I remember him doing in the past seems to indicate a repeat of the old pattern is occurring. I will watch with interest to see what develops.

[thesometimesaint]

It has been a lot of years. I am open to people changing always...but starting out in the same way that I remember him doing in the past seems to indicate a repeat of the old pattern is occurring. I will watch with interest to see what develops.

 

More years than I like to think about.

[BCSpace]

Latter-Day Saints, do you have eternal life?

 

 

Here's a counter-question.  Does King David have eternal life?

[thesometimesaint]

Here's a counter-question.  Does King David have eternal life?

 

Yes. He will not remain in hell forever. However I do think the Saints are shooting for something more than just not being there for eternity.