A Simple Question For Latter-Day Saint Friends

[FormerLDS]

Hello friends,

 

So far, I'm seeing 14 "Yes" and 2 "No", which is significantly lower than if you polled say, 100 random members on a Sunday morning, but deviation is consistent with what you would find on an apologetics forum. 

 

I speak with Latter-day Saint Christians quite frequently in my travels, and have noticed the subject of eternal life is both a most important and (ironically) a the most misunderstood subject by LDS, and those who choose to accept the challenge of truly, objectively investigating the words of Jesus Christ will be confronted with the realization that they can accept His gift of eternal life today or continue trusting the LDS "promise-only" version (i.e. only available after the final resurrection).

 

Regardless friends, no matter what anyone on this board or anywhere else says, you as a person either have eternal life or you do not have eternal life, but, for those who truly understand LDS theology, either answer will require some serious retrospection.

 

FLDS

[thesometimesaint]

 

Hello friends,

 

So far, I'm seeing 14 "Yes" and 2 "No", which is significantly lower than if you polled say, 100 random members on a Sunday morning, but deviation is consistent with what you would find on an apologetics forum. 

 

I speak with Latter-day Saint Christians quite frequently in my travels, and have noticed the subject of eternal life is both a most important and (ironically) a the most misunderstood subject by LDS, and those who choose to accept the challenge of truly, objectively investigating the words of Jesus Christ will be confronted with the realization that they can accept His gift of eternal life today or continue trusting the LDS "promise-only" version (i.e. only available after the final resurrection).

 

Regardless friends, no matter what anyone on this board or anywhere else says, you as a person either have eternal life or you do not have eternal life, but, for those who truly understand LDS theology, either answer will require some serious retrospection.

 

FLDS

 

 

I don't claim to understand everything about LDS theology, but I do have a pretty good knowledge of it.

[T-Shirt]

What brings you back to these parts?  It has been a very long time.  I hope you are well.

[Brian 2.0]

I speak with Latter-day Saint Christians quite frequently in my travels, and have noticed the subject of eternal life is both a most important and (ironically) a the most misunderstood subject by LDS, and those who choose to accept the challenge of truly, objectively investigating the words of Jesus Christ will be confronted with the realization that they can accept His gift of eternal life today or continue trusting the LDS "promise-only" version (i.e. only available after the final resurrection).

 

Regardless friends, no matter what anyone on this board or anywhere else says, you as a person either have eternal life or you do not have eternal life, but, for those who truly understand LDS theology, either answer will require some serious retrospection.

You can't discuss it unless you understand what definitions you are using, as these things can be defined differently by LDS and non-LDS and whomever.

 

This talk From Dallin H. Oaks is a good one, going over the various different way you can define these things which will alter the answer given to your question.  I'll quote just the final section of it but check out the whole talk if you want to understand where those LDS Christians are coming from because I don't think they misunderstand what they believe, they misunderstand what you are asking... some answer yes because they assume you mean one thing... some answer no because they assume you mean another.

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/05/have-you-been-saved?lang=eng

 

As Latter-day Saints use the words saved and salvation, there are at least six different meanings. According to some of these, our salvation is assured—we are already saved. In others, salvation must be spoken of as a future event 

 

 

Finally, in another usage familiar and unique to Latter-day Saints, the words saved and salvation are also used to denote exaltation or eternal life (see Abr. 2:11). This is sometimes referred to as the “fulness of salvation” (Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah, 4 vols. [1979–81], 1:242). This salvation requires more than repentance and baptism by appropriate priesthood authority. It also requires the making of sacred covenants, including eternal marriage, in the temples of God, and faithfulness to those covenants by enduring to the end. If we use the word salvation to mean “exaltation,” it is premature for any of us to say that we have been “saved” in mortality. That glorious status can only follow the final judgment of Him who is the Great Judge of the living and the dead.

I have suggested that the short answer to the question of whether a faithful member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been saved or born again must be a fervent “yes.” Our covenant relationship with our Savior puts us in that “saved” or “born again” condition meant by those who ask this question. Some modern prophets have also used “salvation” or “saved” in that same present sense. President Brigham Young declared:

“It is present salvation and the present influence of the Holy Ghost that we need every day to keep us on saving ground. …

“I want present salvation. … Life is for us, and it is for us to receive it today, and not wait for the Millennium. Let us take a course to be saved today” (Discourses of Brigham Young, sel. John A. Widtsoe [1954], 15–16). President David O. McKay spoke of the revealed gospel of Jesus Christ in that same present sense of “salvation here—here and now” (Gospel Ideals[1953], 6).

 

[FormerLDS]

Just conducting some research, needed a quick poll from a reputable resource.  I pop in every now and then (lurker!)  Hope all is well ...

[FormerLDS]

His famous talk was re-worded by the FP in the youth manual "True to the Faith"

 

Eternal Life, or Exaltation.

In the scriptures, the words saved and salvation often refer to eternal life, or exaltation (see Abraham 2:11). Eternal life is to know Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and dwell with Them forever—to inherit a place in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom (see John 17:3; D&C 131:1–4; 132:21–24). To receive this great gift, we must do more than repent of our sins and be baptized and confirmed by appropriate priesthood authority. Men must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, and all Church members must make and keep sacred covenants in the temple, including eternal marriage.

 

If we use the word salvation to mean eternal life, none of us can say that we have been saved in mortality. That glorious gift can come only after the Final Judgment.

[Calm]

Hello friends,

So far, I'm seeing 14 "Yes" and 2 "No", which is significantly lower than if you polled say, 100 random members on a Sunday morning

so you already know or at least think you do the "correct" answer but polled anyway. Pattern continues.

Edited April 8, 2014 by calmoriah

[Calm]

Just conducting some research, needed a quick poll from a reputable resource.....

and yet you reject the findings as consistent.

"those who choose to accept the challenge of truly, objectively investigating the words of Jesus Christ will be confronted with the realization that they can accept His gift of eternal life today or continue trusting the LDS "promise-only" version (i.e. only available after the final resurrection"

Pattern complete.

Edited April 8, 2014 by calmoriah

[thesometimesaint]

so you already know or at least think you do the "correct" answer but polled anyway. Pattern continues.

 

Very sad.

[Calm]

Very sad.

Yes.

[FormerLDS]

Yes.

 

I don't think anyone has condemned you for your personal beliefs calmoriah.

 

Perhaps reality hasn't taken hold yet, but the fact is 99% of professing Latter-day Saints profess they "have" eternal life, yet also claim to sustain the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve "Apostles" as General Authorities.  I'm not trying to crush anyone's faith or trumpet my opinion.   

 

I could see it if we were talking about verbiage of the sacrament prayer or some other minor discrepancy.

 

But what could be more important that eternal life?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

No tricks, no gimmicks, no gotchas and you're not "boasting" because the poll is anonymous.

 

Just want to see who on this site believes they have eternal life.

 

So far, 4 "yes" and 1 "no".  Thanks to those who have voted so far...

 

FLDS

Cool, so no we don't have eternal life.

 

Ready, set, go.

 

 

 

Note: It really depends on your perspective, doesn't it?

Edited April 8, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I actually am surprised that I am the only "no" response. 

 

Rofl I beat you to the punch.

[Okrahomer]

...but the fact is 99% of professing Latter-day Saints profess they "have" eternal life...

 

That's quite an interesting and specific statistic there.  Could you point me toward a reliable study that confirms it?  I'm thinking of Pew or Gallup perhaps?  In other words:  CFR please.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

 

, none of us can say that we have been saved in mortality. That glorious gift can come only after the Final Judgment.

Pretty sure I said this at the start of this thread. This is the practical sense. I get the EVies try and trip up LDS with saying "Do you know you have Eternal Life right now?" BUt the reality is that you don't get eternal life right now. I definitely get  the promise of it and I know how to get it. But no one (That I know of) actually alive right now has it. It comes after the judgement.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I don't think anyone has condemned you for your personal beliefs calmoriah.

 

Perhaps reality hasn't taken hold yet, but the fact is 99% of professing Latter-day Saints profess they "have" eternal life, yet also claim to sustain the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve "Apostles" as General Authorities.  I'm not trying to crush anyone's faith or trumpet my opinion.   

 

I could see it if we were talking about verbiage of the sacrament prayer or some other minor discrepancy.

 

But what could be more important that eternal life?

What does that have to do with getting eternal life? Do you believe the bible? Oh no, you are not really saved. You only need to trust in Christ alone for your salvation. And when you trust in the bible you are trusting in more than just Christ.

 

Is that seriously the road you want to go down?

 

And yeah it has been a while since you have been on this board. Part of me misses the good old days of the many debates we had.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

That's quite an interesting and specific statistic there.  Could you point me toward a reliable study that confirms it?  I'm thinking of Pew or Gallup perhaps?  In other words:  CFR please.

It really is irrelevant. What he is claiming is that what is wrong is that if you believe the 1st presidency you are not saved. I dispute that more than just some random meaningless stat.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Brian 2.0]

Does the church not teach that "eternal life" is "exaltation" ?

So why the "yes" to the poll question?

[Brian 2.0]

Rofl I beat you to the punch.

I though there was someone before me who said no, but then after I voted it only said there was 1 no. So I thought someone had changed/withdrew their answer. Probably just hadn't logged my answer yet I guess.

[Calm]

I don't think anyone has condemned you for your personal beliefs calmoriah.

 

So are you saying this is atypical of your old pattern because you haven't condemned my personal belifs yet?

[Stargazer]

Your question is ambiguous, and I could answer it both Yes and No.

 

1. Yes, because I have eternal, that is, never-ending existence, as a creature of Heavenly Father.

 

2. No, because I have not yet been granted Eternal life, that is, the life that God leads.

 

I voted Yes, though, because of sense 1, and my hope of sense 2.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I though there was someone before me who said no, but then after I voted it only said there was 1 no. So I thought someone had changed/withdrew their answer. Probably just hadn't logged my answer yet I guess.

I didn't vote because I know there is an agenda with this poll. But I am more interested in having the conversation.

[pogi]

Hence my question, "Do you have eternal life?"

 

"Verily, verily, I say unto you , He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."  John 5:24

 

Based on this scripture, do YOU think that faithful LDS have eternal life now?  Do we need to believe that we have eternal life now for us to have it through eternity?  Does it really matter if we believe that we have eternal life now or not?  What seems significant to our eternal life is that we believe in and follow God.  Whether I believe that I have eternal life NOW does not change that fact.   

[FormerLDS]

That's quite an interesting and specific statistic there.  Could you point me toward a reliable study that confirms it?  I'm thinking of Pew or Gallup perhaps?  In other words:  CFR please.

 

Pop into a RS or EQ meeting some time and ask 10 average members and see if 9/10 don't say "yes, I believe I have eternal life".

 

I make it a point to stop and ask every missionary I encounter this single question and I have only had one or two ever qualify what I meant by "eternal life".

[FormerLDS]

Pretty sure I said this at the start of this thread. This is the practical sense. I get the EVies try and trip up LDS with saying "Do you know you have Eternal Life right now?" BUt the reality is that you don't get eternal life right now. I definitely get  the promise of it and I know how to get it. But no one (That I know of) actually alive right now has it. It comes after the judgement.

 

According to the words of the Savior Himself, one could easily demonstrate that His "eternal life" is given right now, before the final resurrection.

 

"Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:54