Scott Lloyd Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 Yep. Pretty convienient that to.Pretty convenient to shed doubt on the fervently expressed witness of an apostle of the Lord when you have no standing to do so. 1
Teancum Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 How about you respect his decision to share spiritual experiences when and how he sees fit? Perhaps. So long as you recognize your skepticism is not binding on anyone else. Regardless, neither you nor anyone else is in a position to deny such expressions. I can respect it while disagreeing with the approach can I not? And by the way I do respect Elder Holland. He holds a special place in my heart for a personal reason. Of course my skepticism is not binding on anyone nor is your lack of it binding on anyone. And I have not attempted to deny anyone the right to express anything have I? Nope, nope.
Teancum Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 Pretty convenient to shed doubt on the fervently expressed witness of an apostle of the Lord when you have no standing to do so. If they are told not to speak of then impying in a coy way that it may have happened but it is too sacred to share is what I am complaining about. Testify away. I am fine with that. And by the way Mr, Lloyd I have as much standing to question as you do to accept it. So take a chill pill would ya?
Scott Lloyd Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 I can respect it while disagreeing with the approach can I not? And by the way I do respect Elder Holland. You could have fooled me.
Scott Lloyd Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 If they are told not to speak of then impying in a coy way that it may have happened but it is too sacred to share is what I am complaining about. How do you know the inference you are drawing is what was intended?
Teancum Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 You could have fooled me. Not a tough task. Naaaah. Just kiddin with ya!
Teancum Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 How do you know the inference you are drawing is what was intended? My best interpretation. I could be wrong? Could you be?
Teancum Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 You could have fooled me. And by the way, why are you so quick to condemn me and claim I am questioning Elder Holland's heart felt testimony yet you question my heart felt commment? Practice what you preach.
Scott Lloyd Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 My best interpretation. I could be wrong? Could you be?I'm not the one who's making assertions here about the man's sincerity.
Scott Lloyd Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 And by the way, why are you so quick to condemn me and claim I am questioning Elder Holland's heart felt testimony yet you question my heart felt commment? Practice what you preach.I'm defending a man I deeply admire and respect. You, on the other hand ....
Teancum Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 I'm defending a man I deeply admire and respect. You, on the other hand .... Ah I see. So as a defender you an entitled to do the exact same thing to me you are criticizing me for. Well played!
Bikeemikey Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) I'm defending a man I deeply admire and respect.You, on the other hand ....Why not just take him at his word, that he also respects him, and leave the need for defending anyone put of it? Edited April 5, 2014 by Bikeemikey
Scott Lloyd Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) Why not just take him at his word, that he also respects him, and leave the need for defending anyone put of it?He contradicted Elder Holland's expression of sure knowledge. I'm inclined to believe Elder Holland. That's all I'm saying. Edited April 5, 2014 by Scott Lloyd
The Nehor Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 Hypothetically speaking, if Moses were in this thread, would you still feel the same? I'm not convinced that if Moses was here the he would think it was necessary or helpful to us.
Bikeemikey Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 He contradicted Elder Holland's expression of sure knowledge. I'm inclined to believe Elder Holland.That's all I'm saying.Oh, I missed that.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 Here we go again: As Mormons, we tend to think that we can mask bigotry with a smile. We "smiled" at blacks while keeping them out of our temples. We didn't spit at little girls trying to go to school. We didn't burn crosses on people's lawns. We were nice and polite. Yet, not a week goes by that someone doesn't ask me, "Why did you join that racist church?"Likewise, we are instructed to "smile" at gays while working actively to deny them the joys of marriage. We don't hold signs reading that God hates them. We don't call them bad names. And yet, long after OD3, people will be asking our grandkids, "How do you belong to that homophobic church?"We are truly a stiff-necked people.Denying the Priesthood to people of another race was indeed wrong. But Church membership has never been denied to any race...unlike here in Atlanta, GA; my hometown. There is not justification in all of scripture for the many things done to African Americans, be it in Gov't, socially or in Churches in the U.S. But when it come to marriage and SSM, we have thousands of years of scripture and Church history...policies that are still in place in almost every church on earth. In that area we are acting within the scope of scripture, history and tradition. Far too often we "all" need to be careful not to paint with a very broad brush...doing so always makes for a picture that seldom reflects the truth.
canard78 Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 If anything, in this day and age, it's getting so the "hated minority" are those who still profess that adultery is wrong.I normally love and look forward to Elder Holland's talks. But this was very much a step backward for me. The idea of being the "hated minority" is not an uplifting or positive message (not his words, I know).I was especially bothered by the following:"Sadly enough, my young friends, it is a characteristic of our age that if people want any gods at all, they want them to be gods who do not demand much, comfortable gods and smooth gods who not only don’t rock the boat but don’t even row it, gods who pat us on the head, make us giggle, then tell us to run along and pick marigolds. Talk about man creating God in his own image! Sometimes — and this seems the greatest irony of all — these folks invoke the name of Jesus as one who was this kind of ‘comfortable’ God. Really?”I can't help but respond with the same concluding question... Really? Really Elder Holland?It's a disappointing, divisive comment. It's also inaccurate.I had planned, in my calling as branch mission leader to try to work on more inter-faith interaction this year. With comments like that, it's not very helpful.
bluebell Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I normally love and look forward to Elder Holland's talks. But this was very much a step backward for me. The idea of being the "hated minority" is not an uplifting or positive message (not his words, I know).I was especially bothered by the following:I can't help but respond with the same concluding question... Really? Really Elder Holland?It's a disappointing, divisive comment. It's also inaccurate.I had planned, in my calling as branch mission leader to try to work on more inter-faith interaction this year. With comments like that, it's not very helpful.I didn't notice elder Holland suggesting that this was a problem specifically for non-LDS. It doesn't matter what religion we are, if we are seeking after a comfortable God we are looking for the wrong thing. That's just the plain truth and the truth isn't divisive. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I normally love and look forward to Elder Holland's talks. But this was very much a step backward for me. The idea of being the "hated minority" is not an uplifting or positive message (not his words, I know).I was especially bothered by the following:I can't help but respond with the same concluding question... Really? Really Elder Holland?It's a disappointing, divisive comment. It's also inaccurate.I had planned, in my calling as branch mission leader to try to work on more inter-faith interaction this year. With comments like that, it's not very helpful.If the quote from Elder Holland bothered you, the following from C. S. Lewis will probably drive you to apoplexy: What would really satisfy us would be a God who said of anything we happened to like, "What does it matter so long as they are contented?" We want, in fact, not so much a Father in Heaven as a grandfather in heaven — a senile benevolence who, as they say, "liked to see young people enjoying themselves" and whose plan for the universe was simply that it might be truly said at the end of each day, "a good time was had by all"
MorningStar Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I normally love and look forward to Elder Holland's talks. But this was very much a step backward for me. The idea of being the "hated minority" is not an uplifting or positive message (not his words, I know).I was especially bothered by the following:I can't help but respond with the same concluding question... Really? Really Elder Holland?It's a disappointing, divisive comment. It's also inaccurate.I had planned, in my calling as branch mission leader to try to work on more inter-faith interaction this year. With comments like that, it's not very helpful.Funny, I had members of the church in mind who think we should take the politcally correct route for everything so as not to offend others.
wenglund Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 A lot of young 'uns are going to be asking what a love-in is. Tell them that it is code-word for "hook-up." Thanks, -Wade Englund-
canard78 Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 If the quote from Elder Holland bothered you, the following from C. S. Lewis will probably drive you to apoplexy: Not really. There's a difference in this quote. "We want" is far less divisive than "they want." It was the condescending generalisation of what others believe that was problematic.
Yirgacheffe Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 I didn't notice elder Holland suggesting that this was a problem specifically for non-LDS.It doesn't matter what religion we are, if we are seeking after a comfortable God we are looking for the wrong thing. That's just the plain truth and the truth isn't divisive. I did and so did one of the moms who interluded here at my table late this afternoon.
escott3564 Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 Hypothetically speaking, if Moses were in this thread, would you still feel the same? Yes.
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