Why Are We Called A Cult?

[VideoGameJunkie]

People tend to think the temple endowment ceremony is cultish, but I don't believe so. I believe it's sacred.

[Bikeemikey]

20 posts in, I guess I'm the one who gets to say it:

Cult = Small, unpopular religion

Religion = Large, popular cult

+1000!!!

[cinepro]

People tend to think the temple endowment ceremony is cultish, but I don't believe so. I believe it's sacred.

 

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Edited March 23, 2014 by cinepro

[teddyaware]

How come other religions are never called cults, but Mormonism is always called a cult? I don't see what about the church is cultish. Is it the sacred temple ceremonies?

If the Christian Church of the Book of Acts of the Apostles were here today, there is no doubt but that they would be considered a cult and condemned as apostates by those who condemn the LDS Church. The Apostolic Church of Christ had most if not all the earmarks of a cult:

1 Charismatic leaders who claimed to have the truth of God to the exclusion of all other religions.

2 Charismatic leaders who claimed to have the only legitimate priesthood authority of God.

3 A church that claimed to receive revelations from God that allowed them to write new scripture.

4 A church that claimed they has visitations by God Himself and angels, clearly evincing the day of revelation from heaven was not over.

5 A church that claimed to have the only legitimate power to baptize and bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost.

6 A church that was lead by living Apostles and Prophets who were intended by God to remain at the head of the church until all the members had become perfect men and women unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

7 A church that openly taught men could ultimately become like God

8 A Church that taught the "unbiblical" doctrines like baptism for the dead and three degrees of glory for the saved in the afterlife...

My wife calls me to dessert. I may add to my list later.

[LittleNipper]

I would have to agree to some degree with the post above. A cult, as I understand it, is exclusive and secretive. Such have rituals and areas to which the general visiting public is excluded from.  Cults also seem to profess having special knowledge that only they are privy to. The church I attend is very open (thought not perfect because I attend ). There are no secrete rooms, rituals, or meetings. Anyone may attend  ---- though only members may vote regarding church issues or hold office. The only prerequisite for membership is profession of faith and immersion (as an outward expression of an inward change upon one's profession of faith). And even immersion can be waved under extenuating circumstances, such as bad health.

[why me]

I would have to agree to some degree with the post above. A cult, as I understand it, is exclusive and secretive. Such have rituals and areas to which the general visiting public is excluded from.  Cults also seem to profess having special knowledge that only they are privy to. The church I attend is very open (thought not perfect because I attend ). There are no secrete rooms, rituals, or meetings. Anyone may attend  ---- though only members may vote regarding church issues or hold office. The only prerequisite for membership is profession of faith and immersion (as an outward expression of an inward change upon one's profession of faith). And even immersion can be waved under extenuating circumstances, such as bad health.

And yet, brainwashing can still occur. One goes to a meeting and listens to the priest or pastor speak about hell and damnation and what their flock needs to do to escape the fires of hell. People go to bible study and study some more...the teachers plant thoughts into the head of the church members. Most churches claim to have special knowledge about the bible and a special interpretation of verses. If not, what would be the distinction between churches?

 

The early pagans referred to the early church as a cult. Why?

[EllenMaksoud]

How come other religions are never called cults, but Mormonism is always called a cult? I don't see what about the church is cultish. Is it the sacred temple ceremonies?

In the last few days I was put on 12 replies a day, and tonight I see that I can not start a topic. I just want those who read this to know that I have had a lovely time here and have learned so much. I hope that my posts have been enjoyed, except for those that weren't. I'm leaving now. Any replies will go to spam. To those I offended, I wish you the best. 

 

Mormons have given me the three happiest years of my entire life. I praise Heavenly Father and all I have come in contact with for that.  You won't hear from me again.

[Truth 101]

Because of all the secretive stuff that goes on with the church leadership that normal members deny happening because their leaders told them so and most members can't think for themselves and have been brainwashed. In short.

[Storm Rider]

Because of all the secretive stuff that goes on with the church leadership that normal members deny happening because their leaders told them so and most members can't think for themselves and have been brainwashed. In short.

 

Dang, you beat me to it. That is what I have always thought. Those stupid Mormons can never think for themselves. Praise God you have broken away and can really see the evil they do; particularly those crazy leaders.  Man, by their example everyone can see that they are evil men that do everything in secret.  Heck, it is not like anyone can go on the internet and read about everything that goes on in the temple; it is definitely one of the best kept secrets of all time!

 

Yup, and those stupid members just drink it up and never question.  You never hear about anyone questioning anything; they just do exactly what their leaders say.  

 

You and me, let's find that Rameuptom and climb up on it so that we can tell him all how stupid they are and mindless; we should never forget that.  I am just so glad to see another shining light of truth here.  Your example speaks volumes.

[altersteve]

Because of all the secretive stuff that goes on with the church leadership that normal members deny happening because their leaders told them so and most members can't think for themselves and have been brainwashed. In short.

 

I'm not easily offended, but you did it. Well done.

Edited March 24, 2014 by altersteve

[Storm Rider]

I'm not easily offended, but you did it. Well done.

 

I am getting the distinct impression that we are dealing with a troll.  I think ignoring him is the better choice for me.

[Truth 101]

In the last few days I was put on 12 replies a day, and tonight I see that I can not start a topic. I just want those who read this to know that I have had a lovely time here and have learned so much. I hope that my posts have been enjoyed, except for those that weren't. I'm leaving now. Any replies will go to spam. To those I offended, I wish you the best. 

 

Mormons have given me the three happiest years of my entire life. I praise Heavenly Father and all I have come in contact with for that.  You won't hear from me again.

Maybe it's the people that make you happy? If I were still LDS and said, "Mormons make me so happy" I would think it is because of the togetherness of the people. I could thank probability and the universe for that if I wanted to. Hell I could thank Zeus.

[Truth 101]

Dang, you beat me to it. That is what I have always thought. Those stupid Mormons can never think for themselves. Praise God you have broken away and can really see the evil they do; particularly those crazy leaders.  Man, by their example everyone can see that they are evil men that do everything in secret.  Heck, it is not like anyone can go on the internet and read about everything that goes on in the temple; it is definitely one of the best kept secrets of all time!

 

Yup, and those stupid members just drink it up and never question.  You never hear about anyone questioning anything; they just do exactly what their leaders say.  

 

You and me, let's find that Rameuptom and climb up on it so that we can tell him all how stupid they are and mindless; we should never forget that.  I am just so glad to see another shining light of truth here.  Your example speaks volumes.

Hey man the NSA got away with all their questionable classified stuff for awhile. I think a religion is capable of doing the same.

[Truth 101]

Oh ya I forgot one: because there is no archaeological evidence the Lamenites or Nephites ever existed. 

[Tacenda]

In the last few days I was put on 12 replies a day, and tonight I see that I can not start a topic. I just want those who read this to know that I have had a lovely time here and have learned so much. I hope that my posts have been enjoyed, except for those that weren't. I'm leaving now. Any replies will go to spam. To those I offended, I wish you the best.

Mormons have given me the three happiest years of my entire life. I praise Heavenly Father and all I have come in contact with for that. You won't hear from me again.

I'm on Limited too, so are a few other regular posters, and they are good people just as you are! I hope so much this isn't goodbye but that your meds are doing the talking. Please stick around, I need some company.

[LittleNipper]

"Cult" was a popular generic term pagans used to describe themselves: The Cult of Isis, The cult of Dionysus, etc... They presumed everyone had their own set of secrete rituals --- their own angle with the "gods." Were I attend church, I am always encouraged to read and study the Bible. The Bible is the standard everyone should measure  their understanding with. We are never to accept what the pastor says on his say so. I have often heard congregants explain during Sunday school what  various Bible verses say to them... We do hear various Greek and Hebrew interpretations of  words and phrases and everyone today has a Bible translation they prefer. I like the New King James and the American Standard. As for Methodist vs. Lutherans vs. Presbyterians, I have found that this has more to do with the country that branch started and that individual founder more than anything else. There are some minor variations of thought. However, Christ is always at the center.  And the general thought that prevails is that we are saved only by the GRACE of God and not through a church affiliation. Presbyterians, Baptists, independent Fundamentalists, Episcopalians, Methodists, Community, Mennonite ---- NONE claim to have corned the market on either scripture nor God's perfect GRACE. Once a person turns to God through CHRIST, he becomes a new creature and a member of the Universal CHURCH of the LORD JESUS CHRIST.  That is at least the historic Biblically based Protestant view.

[teddyaware]

In the last few days I was put on 12 replies a day, and tonight I see that I can not start a topic. I just want those who read this to know that I have had a lovely time here and have learned so much. I hope that my posts have been enjoyed, except for those that weren't. I'm leaving now. Any replies will go to spam. To those I offended, I wish you the best. 

 

Mormons have given me the three happiest years of my entire life. I praise Heavenly Father and all I have come in contact with for that.  You won't hear from me again.

Dear Ellen, In the event you happen to read this, please do understand (I'm sure you already do understand) that the moderators of this board are not the leaders of the LDS Church, and the LDS Church will do just fine without this site if it ever comes to an end.

If it's any consolation, I've been on limited for quite some time, which seems quite strange because I have an excellent reputation and try very hard to be respectful and factually based in my postings.

If you leave this site behind, please do continue to remain active in the Church and don't let your limited status here color your view of the Church. Your salvation is not contingent on what happens on this discussion board.

[Damien the Leper]

Cult, as it is abused today, is NOT the same as cultus deorum. LDS is not a cult. They are heterodox and much less heterodox than Protestantism.

[Garden Girl]

Because of all the secretive stuff that goes on with the church leadership that normal members deny happening because their leaders told them so and most members can't think for themselves and have been brainwashed. In short.

 

Oh brother....

 

GG

[LittleNipper]

A cult has much more to do with secrete ritualism and exclusiveness than does a heterodox.  A cult is more select as to whom is able to view various "rites." While a heterodox usually does not care who knows what they teach nor how they teach it nor who shows up to witnesses such events. In other words, a cult maybe a heterodox --- but a heterodox isn't always a cult. Another issue is that much of the "ritualism" surrounding Mormonism is supported by non-biblical text. There is no biblical evidence that Jesus ever was baptized for some dead relative. Yet we do know from the Bible that Jesus was baptized before death himself, and that Jesus taught His disciples how to pray. So there is support directly from Jesus for both personal baptism and prayer.

[why me]

In the last few days I was put on 12 replies a day, and tonight I see that I can not start a topic. I just want those who read this to know that I have had a lovely time here and have learned so much. I hope that my posts have been enjoyed, except for those that weren't. I'm leaving now. Any replies will go to spam. To those I offended, I wish you the best. 

 

Mormons have given me the three happiest years of my entire life. I praise Heavenly Father and all I have come in contact with for that.  You won't hear from me again.

I think that this is done so that no poster can dominate the board with their posts. Most of us have limited number of posts because we don't post 12 a day. I think that most board members average much less. If a poster is averaging 20 posts per day, this poster can begin to dominate the threads. So, the solution is too limited the posts to 12, which is still a lot of posts.

 

For example, lets say that we have four posters averaging 20 posts a day. This adds up to 80 posts a day. That is quite a lot coming from 4 posters. So, they are placed on limited, which is not really limited since it is still 12 posts a day, and other board members can read more of a cross-section of posters.

 

I wouldn't take it personal. It has happened to many who average a lot of posts per day.

[why me]

A cult has much more to do with secrete ritualism and exclusiveness than does a heterodox.  A cult is more select as to whom is able to view various "rites." While a heterodox usually does not care who knows what they teach nor how they teach it nor who shows up to witnesses such events. In other words, a cult maybe a heterodox --- but a heterodox isn't always a cult. Another issue is that much of the "ritualism" surrounding Mormonism is supported by non-biblical text. There is no biblical evidence that Jesus ever was baptized for some dead relative. Yet we do know from the Bible that Jesus was baptized before death himself, and that Jesus taught His disciples how to pray. So there is support directly from Jesus for both personal baptism and prayer.

I think that the point is that when it is used against the lds church, it is negative in connotation. It refers to a brainwashed people who are mind controlled. It is a word to scare people away from the lds church. People who use the term do not seem to think of ritualism etc. All faiths have their rituals which is repeated over and over again in the service, mass or somewhere else.

[mormonnewb]

By the way, am I the only person who finds our sustaining process a little "cultish?"

 

I remember being amazed the first time I saw a unanimous sustaining vote.  I remember thinking, "I'm not sure Kim Jong Il receives 100% of the vote.  Something is very wrong here."  I later remarked to my "handler" (the ward missionary leader) that I planned to vote AGAINST the next person put up for a vote just "for the principle of the thing." He then explained why that wouldn't be the best idea.  Since then, I've learned to see the sustaining vote not so much as my approval (or disapproval) of the appointed person, but rather as my covenant to sustain/support them in their appointed office.

 

However, I still suspect that it must look pretty weird to investigators when that ALL of the members cast the same "vote."

[teddyaware]

By the way, am I the only person who finds our sustaining process a little "cultish?"

 

I remember being amazed the first time I saw a unanimous sustaining vote.  I remember thinking, "I'm not sure Kim Jong Il receives 100% of the vote.  Something is very wrong here."  I later remarked to my "handler" (the ward missionary leader) that I planned to vote AGAINST the next person put up for a vote just "for the principle of the thing." He then explained why that wouldn't be the best idea.  Since then, I've learned to see the sustaining vote not so much as my approval (or disapproval) of the appointed person, but rather as my covenant to sustain/support them in their appointed office.

 

However, I still suspect that it must look pretty weird to investigators when that ALL of the members cast the same "vote."

When we are asked to sustain the leaders of the Church in their decision to extend a call to someone to serve in a particular position, one must have good reasons to vote no, as a no vote indicates you believe the leaders were mistaken to call that person to serve in that calling.

 

Being new to the Church, I wonder if you have ever given a no vote when asked to sustain the leaders and the individual called to a serve in a new position?. If you have good reasons to vote 'no,' you should have the courage to vote no. Afterwards the leaders will take you aside and ask you why you voted no. If your reasons for voting no are sound, valid and based on facts the leaders may have been unaware of when extending that call, the calling may be withdrawn.

 

By the way, do you think it would be better to have no sustaining vote at all to serve as a check against callings possibly being extended to unworthy individuals? It has happened, you know.

Edited March 26, 2014 by teddyaware

[mormonnewb]

When we are asked to sustain the leaders of the Church in their decision to extend a call to someone to serve in a particular position, one must have good reasons to vote no, as a no vote indicates you believe the leaders were mistaken to call that person to serve in that calling.

Being new to the Church, I wonder if you have ever given a no vote when asked to sustain the leaders and the individual called to a serve in a new position?. If you have good reasons to vote 'no,' you should have the courage to vote no. Afterwards the leaders will take you aside and ask you why you voted no. If your reasons for voting no are sound, valid and based on facts the leaders may have been unaware of when extending that call, the calling may be withdrawn.

By the way, do you think it would be better to have no sustaining vote at all to serve as a check against callings possibly being extended to unworthy individuals? It has happened, you know.

I wouldn't have a vote at all since callings are inspired, aren't they? Shouldn't the bishop/stake president be alerted to any improprieties by the Spirit? Seriously, even if I knew of some issue, I wouldn't feel it was my place to intercede in a decision made by those in authority. I would assume that the issue had been resolved.

I was simply struck by what looked like a "rigged election." I now understand that it's not really an election but rather akin to the minister at a wedding asking, "If anyone knows of any reason why this couple shouldn't be married, speak now ..." The only difference is that the rest of the audience members aren't asked to give a "sustaining vote" for the marriage.

Once again, it's not to unusual to me now, but the idea of a vote that is, say, 100-0, is unusual for many of us, for example, if you put a poll on the Internet asking for whether people supported a law that made it illegal to punch babies in the throat, there would be AT LEAST 2% opposed (possibly up to 4% if the responders are all parents).

Edited March 26, 2014 by mormonnewb