Truth 101 Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 I've looked all over the internet and have tried to find out how the court proceedings with the LDS church (or more specifically, President Monson) being accused of fraud played out (the Queen Elizabeth Anti-Fraud act of 2006). Most people say, "well then every religion could be put on trial" No, that is not what the LDS church being called to show up in the UK magistrate's court on March 14th was about. In order to receive all the blessings and benefits of the church you must be a full tithe payer. Whereas most other churches tithing is anonymous and not required to receive all the blessings and benefits of said church. 1
sheilauk Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) You are inaccurate. It is not about anonymity and the availability or otherwise of "benefits". Please read through the two threads on this board. FYI - its just "the Fraud Act 2006". Edited March 16, 2014 by sheilauk 2
jaxenro Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Not as simple as that. Other Churchs require different commitments from members and in the LDS Church no one audits your tax return they simply ask if you are and take it on faith that you tell the truth. The claim in court was that President Monson knowingly lied about Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon to defraud money and knowingly lied when he stated the earth was 6,000 years old. I think they issued what we woud call a continuence for the judge to consider the arguments (not sure what they call them in England) and there is another date. Then it may be dismissed or move to a Crown Court. There is a thread here with a good summary
Truth 101 Posted March 16, 2014 Author Posted March 16, 2014 You are inaccurate. It is not about anonymity and the availability or otherwise of "benefits". Please read through the two threads on this board. FYI - its just "the Fraud Act 2006".no look it up, it's the Elizabeth II Anti-Fraud act of 2006.
Truth 101 Posted March 16, 2014 Author Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Not as simple as that. Other Churchs require different commitments from members and in the LDS Church no one audits your tax return they simply ask if you are and take it on faith that you tell the truth. The claim in court was that President Monson knowingly lied about Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon to defraud money and knowingly lied when he stated the earth was 6,000 years old. I think they issued what we woud call a continuence for the judge to consider the arguments (not sure what they call them in England) and there is another date. Then it may be dismissed or move to a Crown Court. There is a thread here with a good summaryI figured it was probably continued. I will look for the other threads as I figured it'd already been covered. Thank you. And like I've said before, I think that it'll probably be dismissed and go nowhere. Tom Phillips seems like a put together guy, but he also seems a bit disgruntled when it comes to the LDS church. Edited March 16, 2014 by Truth 101
Calm Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) no look it up, it's the Elizabeth II Anti-Fraud act of 2006.Are you a wiki expert (information derived from) or a practicing barrister?I am not a barrister like Sheila is, but I still suspect the guys who put together this website knew what they were doing and it agrees with Sheila:http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/contents Edited March 16, 2014 by calmoriah
Sky Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Paying tithing is a choice. Nobody is forcing anybody to pay if they don't want to do it. And has anybody seen a picture of Thomas Monson's home? It doesn't look like he is defrauding the members of the Church to get "gain" to me. http://www.moroni10.com/prophets_homes/Thomas_Monson.html
Truth 101 Posted March 16, 2014 Author Posted March 16, 2014 Meh whatever when I read the documentation on all of this it was called the Elizabeth II anti-fraud act of 2006 call it what you will It's still an anti-fraud law
Truth 101 Posted March 16, 2014 Author Posted March 16, 2014 Paying tithing is a choice. Nobody is forcing anybody to pay if they don't want to do it. And has anybody seen a picture of Thomas Monson's home? It doesn't look like he is defrauding the members of the Church to get "gain" to me. http://www.moroni10.com/prophets_homes/Thomas_Monson.html You are right! Paying tithing is a choice! But good luck getting a temple recommend without paying it!
Sky Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) You are right! Paying tithing is a choice! But good luck getting a temple recommend without paying it! A desire to attend the temple and a willingness to pay tithing usually go hand-in-hand. Just sayin'... But really, if this is how you feel about tithing, then don't pay it! As President Hinckley used to say, it's not so much a matter of money as it is the heart. As for the court case, it's an assault on religious freedom and England should be ashamed! Edited March 16, 2014 by Sky 1
savedbygrace Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 I can't see this going anywhere, it is positively daft, and would be a waste of British tax payer's money.
Duncan Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 A desire to attend the temple and a willingness to pay tithing usually go hand-in-hand. Just sayin'... But really, if this is how you feel about tithing, then don't pay it! As President Hinckley used to say, it's not so much a matter of money as it is the heart. As for the court case, it's an assault on religious freedom and England should be ashamed! England isn't so bad and they redeemed themselves by giving the world great inventions namely Canada 2
Five Solas Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 And has anybody seen a picture of Thomas Monson's home? It doesn't look like he is defrauding the members of the Church to get "gain" to me. I'm not arguing it demonstrates fraud--but records show he possesses several of them. Your perspective may be a little naive...;0) --Erik PS. Let Google be your friend
MiserereNobis Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 I'm not arguing it demonstrates fraud--but records show he possesses several of them. Your perspective may be a little naive...;0) --Erik PS. Let Google be your friend Man, and just think, the Pope owns an entire city-state! Personally, I love that Vatican City is the only absolute monarchy left in Europe. And it's an elective monarchy, too! And it is truly absolute. Yes, there are various congregations related to the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government, but the Pope has the last word on them all. Besides, where else can you find an ATM where one of the language choices is Latin? 2
sunstoned Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 Are you a wiki expert (information derived from) or a practicing barrister?I am not a barrister like Sheila is, but I still suspect the guys who put together this website knew what they were doing and it agrees with Sheila:http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/contentsHe has several houses. http://mormoninsider.wordpress.com/2013/04/18/thomas-s-monsons-home/
Tiki Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 Man, and just think, the Pope owns an entire city-state! Personally, I love that Vatican City is the only absolute monarchy left in Europe. And it's an elective monarchy, too! And it is truly absolute. Yes, there are various congregations related to the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government, but the Pope has the last word on them all. Besides, where else can you find an ATM where one of the language choices is Latin? This is why the First Amendment was created. The last word resides with the individual citizen about his or her religious beliefs.
MiserereNobis Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 This is why the First Amendment was created. The last word resides with the individual citizen about his or her religious beliefs. Oh, those heretical Enlightenment thinkers, influenced by the French philosophes (yes, there is no 'r') and the other Continental Deists... 1
Tiki Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 You are right! Paying tithing is a choice! But good luck getting a temple recommend without paying it!And since when is obtaining a Temple Recommend a legal right under Civil Law?" 10 We believe that all religious societies have a right to deal with their members for disorderly conduct, according to the rules and regulations of such societies; provided that such dealings be for fellowship and good standing; but we do not believe that any religious society has authority to try men on the right of property or life, to take from them this world’s goods, or to put them in jeopardy of either life or limb, or to inflict any physical punishment upon them. They can only excommunicate them from their society, and withdraw from them their fellowship."Paying tithing is a choice set by our "religious society." The Church is not forcing anything from anyone.
Tiki Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 Oh, those heretical Enlightenment thinkers, influenced by the French philosophes (yes, there is no 'r') and the other Continental Deists... Would that include Dr. Guillotin?
Kenngo1969 Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 You are right! Paying tithing is a choice! But good luck getting a temple recommend without paying it!Something tells me (with all due respect) that you're not interested in doing either, so what's the problem?
Kenngo1969 Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 England isn't so bad and they redeemed themselves by giving the world great inventions namely Canada And Canada, in turn, gave us that wonderful invention known as poutine! 2
Duncan Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) He has several houses. http://mormoninsider.wordpress.com/2013/04/18/thomas-s-monsons-home/ whoever figured all that out has way too much time on their hands Edited March 17, 2014 by Duncan 2
Duncan Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 And Canada, in turn, gave us that wonderful invention known as poutine! you better believe it! I am eating some right now!!! 1
Calm Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 Meh whatever when I read the documentation on all of this it was called the Elizabeth II anti-fraud act of 2006 call it what you will It's still an anti-fraud lawAnd here I thought as a scientific person accuracy would be important to you.What documentation? (if you have not already answered this question)
Calm Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) whoever figured all that out has way too much time on their handsKind of creepy stalkerish too.Who cares about a 40 year old misprint of the name of the daughter of a GA?Seriously? Edited March 17, 2014 by calmoriah 2
Recommended Posts