Science And Scripture. Can They Coexist?

[Truth 101]

Hello everybody. I'm new to this forum and chose this forum because it is comprised of TBM's, jack mormons, non-mormons, ex-mormons, post-mormons. What I'm getting at is that it is very diverse. I like this forum because it seems like everybody here is pretty real and I don't feel like posting on a forum that is just about bashing the church. I do however, have my own reservations about the church. There is a reason why I left and haven't been back and whatnot. I don't know if this topic has been covered but I wanted to start a topic anyway.

 

I am a very scientific person, and there are a few parallels to what the church believes and what I believe, such as the ability to transcend. I believe that the human race will transcend through technology for the most part. But I still think it is possible to transcend without it. I've had some near death experiences and experiences with psychedelic drugs that have led me to believe that there definitely is a higher power and life after death, I just don't think that we've found a way for science to explain it.

 

To start off the topic I'd like to bring up one thing I remember learning when I was a teacher when I was about 14, my quorum's teacher told us that god is bound by the same physical laws that we are. That's cool. But it also leads me to believe that if there was a creator and we are the sum of intelligent design, was technology involved? I also remember asking if there was a heavenly mother, that if Elohim has a wife (or wives I guess you could say). My teacher said yes but he doesn't talk about her because he doesn't want her name to be taken in vain like people do with his, he does it to protect her. Which is sweet when you think about it. I wouldn't want mere mortals saying rude things about the woman I love more than anything in the universe.

 

In another thread somebody misunderstood me when I said I believed that god was a woman. I do not believe god to be a singular being, but maybe some sort of vast collective consciousness that we can't fully understand. When I said the thing about god being a woman I meant that IF I believed in a singular entity as a god, it makes more sense to me that it would be female, not male. But like I just said I do not believe in a single god. The higher power I believe in consists of both genders.

 

I also believe that if there were higher powers it fits nicely with the multiverse theory (kind of). Maybe everytime transcendence happens a whole new universe is created.

 

Thoughts? Opinions?

[jaxenro]

I think your groping for answers which is fine but I see little in your post that relates to your topic title.

 

Personally I think your limiting God, or your concept of God, to the level of your own awareness. I don't mean this in a negative manner as I see it as a common human action. We try to explain things in a manner we can relate to.

 

So let's start with the simple concept you state, that we have the ability to transcend. Transcend what? You don't really say. Technology is limited to this temporal world yet it seems you want to use technology to transcend the temporal? Is this true? If so in what manner?

 

Often when seeking answers it's best to begin by defining the questions you are seeking answers to. In your case that seems a little muddled (again not a criticism just an observation) so you might want to begin there. What questions are you seeking to answer and how are you seeking to answer them? You don't sound like you want someone to tell you the answers but instead want to work to discover your own answers. Such, they say, is the beginning of wisdom

[thatjimguy]

Science and LDS go hand in hand. One of my first calsses at BYU-Idaho was basic science. It really was cool to hear that explained a lot of now-known science into LDS theology. A lot of the class was almost based just on trying to see both sides of the issue.

[Rivers]

It all depends on how view scripture.

[The Nehor]

Nope, one must destroy the other. It is the only way.

[Buzzard]

Nope, one must destroy the other. It is the only way.

And let me guess, The Nehor has discount tix to the cage match.

[rockpond]

God is the ultimate scientist.  Everything we do here in mortality with science, technology, medicine, etc is an attempt to get to the level of knowledge He already has.

[Truth 101]

I think your groping for answers which is fine but I see little in your post that relates to your topic title.

 

Personally I think your limiting God, or your concept of God, to the level of your own awareness. I don't mean this in a negative manner as I see it as a common human action. We try to explain things in a manner we can relate to.

 

So let's start with the simple concept you state, that we have the ability to transcend. Transcend what? You don't really say. Technology is limited to this temporal world yet it seems you want to use technology to transcend the temporal? Is this true? If so in what manner?

 

Often when seeking answers it's best to begin by defining the questions you are seeking answers to. In your case that seems a little muddled (again not a criticism just an observation) so you might want to begin there. What questions are you seeking to answer and how are you seeking to answer them? You don't sound like you want someone to tell you the answers but instead want to work to discover your own answers. Such, they say, is the beginning of wisdom

 

When I say transcend I mean transcend to a higher level of awareness and understanding of the world and universe around us. Technology is what has made us able to transcend from neanderthals to a post industrial society. Who says technology isn't able to help us transcend the temporal. And by the temporal I am assuming you mean time. Well one could argue that you can't go back in time, once the past is set, it is set. But there could theoretically be places of existence where time is meaningless. But you also have to realize is that there is always a continuum. For instance, people talk about the fourth dimension being time, that is not true, it is more accurate to say the fourth dimension is duration and what we perceive as time are just cross sections of the present to the future and when you look at this on a grand scale it looks like a line, hence, timeline. But time, or more accurately, duration, is relative, the more velocity you have or the closer you are to a gravitational body with momentum duration slows down relative to everything else. This is why when we look at string theory we get 10 spatial dimensions and 1 dimension of time, the fourth of those spatial dimensions being duration. But other than duration, there is always a continuum. What if we were fifth dimensional beings? Then we would be able to see forward and all the possibilities of what could happen based on choice, probability, etc.

 

When I talk about science and scripture coexisting what about the fact that scripture says that the earth is only 6000 years old when we have proof that it is much, much older?

 

And also, I don't see how my post and topic title don't relate. By scripture I also mean religion and the concept of a monotheistic god, as well as the bible and BOM

Edited March 13, 2014 by Truth 101

[Truth 101]

God is the ultimate scientist.  Everything we do here in mortality with science, technology, medicine, etc is an attempt to get to the level of knowledge He already has.

 

So how does god do this, does he have a laboratory with machines where he can hear all of our prayers? Has he transcended purely through biology? Are we just an experiment? A couple thousand years ago we KNEW the earth was the center of the universe and we KNEW the earth was flat. Now we know better. Imagine what we'll know tomorrow.

 

Another thing I don't get is the plan of salvation. What is the point of sending us here to this earth if he knows exactly how it's going to play out. It makes no sense. "I'm gonna send down Jeffrey Dahlmer to earth, he's a crazy serial killer but oh well." 

Edited March 13, 2014 by Truth 101

[BCSpace]

Science And Scripture. Can They Coexist?

 

Sure they can.  In fact, I'd say it's a requirement for salvation to study Science et. al. and equate it to or use it for the Gospel:

 

 77 And I give unto you a commandment that you shall teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom.

 78 Teach ye diligently and my grace shall attend you, that you may be instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient for you to understand;

 79 Of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgments which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms—

 80 That ye may be prepared in all things when I shall send you again to magnify the calling whereunto I have called you, and the mission with which I have commissioned you.

 81 Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.

 82 Therefore, they are left without excuse, and their sins are upon their own heads.

 

D&C 88

 

 

No excuses.  It is obviously contrary to the Gospel to have some subjects that are taboo.

[Rob Osborn]

So how does god do this, does he have a laboratory with machines where he can hear all of our prayers? Has he transcended purely through biology? Are we just an experiment? A couple thousand years ago we KNEW the earth was the center of the universe and we KNEW the earth was flat. Now we know better. Imagine what we'll know tomorrow.

 

Another thing I don't get is the plan of salvation. What is the point of sending us here to this earth if he knows exactly how it's going to play out. It makes no sense. "I'm gonna send down Jeffrey Dahlmer to earth, he's a crazy serial killer but oh well."

God doesnt know exactly who will return and who won't. Thats why we are here- to be tested

[Truth 101]

God doesnt know exactly who will return and who won't. Thats why we are here- to be tested

 

That isn't what I remember learning in seminary, or in church for that matter so I must have been taught false doctrine.

 

Also, if god is bound by the same physical laws we are, who created the physical laws in the first place?

Edited March 13, 2014 by Truth 101

[Rob Osborn]

That isn't what I remember learning in seminary, or in church for that matter so I must have been taught false doctrine.

 

Also, if god is bound by the same physical laws we are, who created the physical laws in the first place?

Simple logic states that God cannot possibly know every exact detail and still have the ability to choose.

It doesn't do any good to imagine where the laws themselves came from. We might as well ask why we even exist

[Truth 101]

But is god not omnipotent and omniscient and can see through the curtain of time? Cause that's what I remember learning in seminary and church before I left. So either doctrine has changed or my teachers were teaching false doctrine. Not to mention simple deductive logic and religion/god don't have the best track record of getting along.

 

Why does it do us no good? I don't know about you but I think that every question out there has an answer, some are just harder to find. In this case, an extremely hard answer to find.

[Rob Osborn]

But is god not omnipotent and omniscient and can see through the curtain of time? Cause that's what I remember learning in seminary and church before I left. So either doctrine has changed or my teachers were teaching false doctrine. Not to mention simple deductive logic and religion/god don't have the best track record of getting along.

 

Why does it do us no good? I don't know about you but I think that every question out there has an answer, some are just harder to find. In this case, an extremely hard answer to find.

he is only all knowing and all powerful as far as it is possible to do so. You have heard the old paradox of "Is God so mighty that he could create a rock so heavy even he couldn't lift it?" Lets apply this also to these of "infinite" nature. Does God have an infinite amount of experiences? Not possible. Does God have an infinite amount of Love? Again, not possible. Has God created an infinite amount of worlds? Not possible. Something "infinite" means that by logic there must be two points of distance within it that are in itself infinite distances apart. This is a paradox and therefore untrue. Only things of finite value can be experienced, felt, known etc. This thus means that it is not possible to be all powerful in an infinite sense. Nor can it mean that one can be all knowing in an infinite sense. All things are numbered to God and he knows all of them. At the same time he is also able to keep growing in glory by creating an ever increasing amount of worlds and people to populate those worlds through his seed. This thus means that his power is growing all the time. So, thus by logic, the longer time goes by the more power he is able to have, not that he already had an infinite amount.

Now, lets apply this to knowledge of futurity and the principle of choice. I believe God knows all that is possible to be known about the future but not all of it as that in and of itself cannot be known nor comprehended. Choice makes a vital point here in that if God already knew every single exact detail of the future then he is not ever in a position to make any choices- he can only do exactly what is already written for him to say and do and think and whatever else God does. Choice means that there must be at least two possible yet different outcomes. Choice presents itself as the present rolls forth with all other agents making choices themselves that effect the future. Thus, we can shape our future and thus so can God shape the future of which is not written. God has a pretty good idea of what choices we will make and be able to more accurately tell the future or prophecy about it but it still unravels forth on faith and chaoices.

[jaxenro]

Another thing I don't get is the plan of salvation. What is the point of sending us here to this earth if he knows exactly how it's going to play out. It makes no sense. "I'm gonna send down Jeffrey Dahlmer to earth, he's a crazy serial killer but oh well." 

 

Again you limit God by your own understanding. You touched on it in your earlier post on duration. You see time as a fixed constant, as if it was a long tunnel you were always moving down at a fixed rate. You can remember where you have been but can't go back there, you can dimly or not at all see what's aheaad of you (some can see better than others), you can only see and experience the exact place you are in the tunnel. You assume God stands beside you in the tunnel when he may stand outside of it, able to see and comprehend all parts of it at once. To him time may not be a fixed constant as it is to us stuck in a temporal (physical) existence. So does He know the outcome because He can see the outcome contemporary with the event?

 

What each of us does on earth matters for our eternal progression but based on your belief of science you place the universe at what, 15 or so billion years existence? Joseph Smith taught that man existed from the beginning, co-eternal with God, without beginning or end. So you 80 or so years on earth represents what, about a blip on that 15, 0r 50, billion year existnce if measured in temporal (physical) time? Life and death here, although full of meaning, has no real meaning in other ways. We blip and are gone, having acheived our physical bodies needed for progression. To put it in terms of your span here it represents less than a half hour of kindergarden proportionally one to the other. What we learn, what we do to others, how we act, all remain with us.

 

Joseph Smith also taught that most of our learning takes place after we leave here. The earth isn't college, it probably isn't high school, it might not even be grade school, it is more likely pre-school where we go to learn the basics.

 

It seems you are are asking the age old question why does God allow suffering? Because in the grand scheme of things it is of such a small moment, our suffering here, and we need to experience it to progress. How can we move on to greater power and responsibility if we can't handle lesser power and responsiility here?

 

Do you honestly think a being that can manipulate matter to create worlds is impressed by the cell phone?

Edited March 13, 2014 by jaxenro

[Truth 101]

So on one hand I have Rob Osborn telling me that God cannot possibly be all powerful because it is paradoxical, "Can God himself create a stone so heavy he himself cannot lift it?" and that as time moves forward God gains knowledge just as we do. I do get what you're saying Rob. It's like the notion of infinite velocity, it's impossible because then you would occupy every space of the universe at one time, an impossible paradox.

 

Then on the other hand we have jaxenro who says that "Joseph Smith taught that man existed from the beginning, co-eternal with God, without beginning or end" if this were true than God would indeed possess infinite knowledge.

 

Basically what both of you are telling me contradict one another.

 

As far as seeing time as a tunnel that one walks through at a fixed rate, this also is not true. Allow me to introduce the famous equation: E=mc^2. We are not moving through time at a fixed rate, time is relative. For example: Let's pretend I've invented a device that allows me to cross the event horizon of a black hole without being ripped to shreds. Theoretically if I were to cross the event horizon of a black hole and survive, I would see the entire life of the universe in an infinitesimally small amount of time because I would be inside the gravitational field of a quantum singularity, which has infinite gravity, while an outside observer would see me cross the event horizon and stop, appearing frozen. As I'm sure you know this is Einstein's theory of general relativity. God may be able to see outside the analogy we are using for time, a tunnel, but that would mean he is a being that exists in a higher dimension. He would be fifth dimensional if he can see all outcomes, and he would be sixth dimensional if he could travel between these parallel outcomes. Keep in mind all of these dimensions are spatial. This would indicate that god can travel through spacetime by folding through higher dimensions. But you are forgetting one thing, for god there is still a continuum, so yes I agree, for god to exist he must perceive time in a way that we just can't comprehend, god must have his own continuum (or perception of time, whatever you want to call it) for Rob's theory or else god would possess infinite knowledge and power, which is impossible according to Rob.        

 

As far as a being who can manipulate matter to create worlds being impressed by a cell phone... well again, for the sake of argument, let's say I have invented a way to travel through space at speeds greater than the speed of light and that I can live forever, or at least for a very, very long time. If I went to a world that was like ours and seeded it with life and came back 5 billion years later and saw that the world I once seeded was filled with intelligent beings who had technology and philosophy and culture, I would be very impressed. But also, how does god manipulate matter on such a grand scale? Is he just some sort of awesome life-form or is there technology involved? If god is the ultimate scientist where is the science. I'm sorry but I just refuse to accept the notion that god said, "Let there be light".

 

Lorenzo Snow once said, "as man is now god once was, as god is now man may become" so I ask, "How is this achieved? When we die does our soul, or spirit (or whatever you want to call it) move to a higher dimension naturally? (BTW I do believe each person has a soul or spirit, or some type of non-corporeal form) or is there technology involved? If god was once like us surely he existed on a world with a culture all its own with its own technologies and philosophies.

 

Now I already know what somebody's counter-point is going to be: I'm limiting myself to my own small human understanding. But I don't accept that. If god was once like us then that means we must be able to somehow comprehend how he is able to do what he does. And I think the notion of just saying, "you can't comprehend how it works so don't try" is a statement made by religious leaders and churches because that's the best answer they can come up with, and they don't want members thinking about it too much or else people would end up leaving. It's human nature to want to know how things work and why they work the way they do.

 

Another argument is this: we are taught that god created us in his own image. Again, for the sake of argument, let's say that tomorrow a race of alien explorers made first contact with us but looking nothing at all like us. What would that mean for the scriptures? If god created intelligent life in his own image than why are there intelligent beings from another world that look nothing like us? Which leads to yet another question, are we alone in the universe? Surely not, we exist inside a galaxy with at least 200 billion stars, and we live in only an average sized galaxy, other galaxies like Andromeda and the Triangulum galaxy are estimated to have at least 400 billion stars, and there are at least 100 billion galaxies within just the observable universe. 100 billion multiplied by 200 billion is a pretty big number, so in my opinion there is no way we are alone in this universe, it is more probable that there is intelligent life out there than not, and it is a bit arrogant to think we are the only form of intelligent life in the universe. And if there was life on other worlds that were intelligent the odds of them having the same physiology as us are so infinitesimally small it isn't impossible, but highly, highly, very highly, improbable. 

 

I choose to believe in science because it is something that is tangible and I can understand, whereas the belief in god is somewhat of a blind leap of faith. If I was about to enter a forest and there were two roads, and the sign at the beginning of one road said, "choose this road and you will make it through the forest (science)" and the other road said, "choose this road and you might make it through the forest (religion)" I'd choose the road that says that I will make it through the forest. That, is simple logic.

 

Now I know I've strayed a bit from the topic at hand, but I think all I've said is pretty relevant to the question: Science And Scripture. Can They Coexist?''

 

I guess another question that has evolved from the original one this topic is based on is: How does god do what he does? Is it biological? Technological? A combination of both?

 

And no offense janexro (or to anybody who sees Joseph Smith as some benevolent dude, cause he wasn't, he may have been intelligent but he was also a polygamist and lied to people to get ahead in life IMO), but I don't really hold Joseph Smith in high esteem or believe anything he taught for many different reasons, but that is a discussion for another thread.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Truth 101

[Calm]

Just an FYI....Rob holds a number of nontraditional positions on the faith. I will not comment on whether or not his ideas are true, just that you won't hear them from most LDS..in a few cases I suspect Rob is the only one who holds that idea, certainly the only I have come across so far.

Jax has not been around long enough to know where he falls, but the majority here on the board usually hold some unusual position on a minor point at the very least.

It makes for better discussion if you don't assume you are discussing a generic position unless there is a lot of agreement or something is posted from an official church website that says the same thing in context and without effort of adding words etc.

Edited March 13, 2014 by calmoriah

[teddyaware]

he is only all knowing and all powerful as far as it is possible to do so. You have heard the old paradox of "Is God so mighty that he could create a rock so heavy even he couldn't lift it?" Lets apply this also to these of "infinite" nature. Does God have an infinite amount of experiences? Not possible. Does God have an infinite amount of Love? Again, not possible. Has God created an infinite amount of worlds? Not possible. Something "infinite" means that by logic there must be two points of distance within it that are in itself infinite distances apart. This is a paradox and therefore untrue. Only things of finite value can be experienced, felt, known etc. This thus means that it is not possible to be all powerful in an infinite sense. Nor can it mean that one can be all knowing in an infinite sense. All things are numbered to God and he knows all of them. At the same time he is also able to keep growing in glory by creating an ever increasing amount of worlds and people to populate those worlds through his seed. This thus means that his power is growing all the time. So, thus by logic, the longer time goes by the more power he is able to have, not that he already had an infinite amount.

Now, lets apply this to knowledge of futurity and the principle of choice. I believe God knows all that is possible to be known about the future but not all of it as that in and of itself cannot be known nor comprehended. Choice makes a vital point here in that if God already knew every single exact detail of the future then he is not ever in a position to make any choices- he can only do exactly what is already written for him to say and do and think and whatever else God does. Choice means that there must be at least two possible yet different outcomes. Choice presents itself as the present rolls forth with all other agents making choices themselves that effect the future. Thus, we can shape our future and thus so can God shape the future of which is not written. God has a pretty good idea of what choices we will make and be able to more accurately tell the future or prophecy about it but it still unravels forth on faith and chaoices.

Rob,

Given your point of view, I'd be interested to hear your explanation on Christ's atonement being described in the Book of Mormon as infinite?

[Truth 101]

Just an FYI....Rob holds a number of nontraditional positions on the faith. I will not comment on whether or not his ideas are true, just that you won't hear them from most LDS..in a few cases I suspect Rob is the only one who holds that idea, certainly the only I have come across so far.

Jax has not been around long enough to know where he falls, but the majority here on the board usually hold some unusual position on a minor point at the very least.

It makes for better discussion if you don't assume you are discussing a generic position unless there is a lot of agreement or something is posted from an official church website that says the same thing in context and without effort of adding words etc.

 

Well either way that's why I chose this forum over others is because of its diverse opinions. From my experience from talking to members of the LDS church (and other faiths for that matter), everybody has their own little offshoot beliefs of what is considered to be official doctrine. To this day I've only met one person who fully believes in the full doctrine of the mormon church and that is my fraternal grandmother, and she comes off to me as a bit blind and naive. Even my mother, who is a TBM, has her own small reservations about what exactly is taught and interpreted.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Truth 101

[jaxenro]

Jax is expressing his own opinions on time and space and God. If he is quoting official LDS doctrine he will state it. Even the paraphrase from Joseph Smith was not meant to imply official LDS sanction to the argument given.

 

"Another argument is this: we are taught that god created us in his own image. Again, for the sake of argument, let's say that tomorrow a race of alien explorers made first contact with us but looking nothing at all like us. What would that mean for the scriptures? If god created intelligent life in his own image than why are there intelligent beings from another world that look nothing like us?"

 

You are debating a hypothetical. I could counter and state what if aliens showed up and looked exactly like us would that then prove the scriptures? You are not discussing sciene but science-fiction.

 

"God may be able to see outside the analogy we are using for time, a tunnel, but that would mean he is a being that exists in a higher dimension"

 

Exactly. Yet you still persist in expecting God to act in a manner that conforms your dimension.

 

"But I don't accept that. If god was once like us then that means we must be able to somehow comprehend how he is able to do what he does."

 

Yes we have the potential to ccmprehend how he is able to do what he does. Just as a two year old child has the potential to comprehend calculus. I know it may pain you to realize that on a developmental level we just aren't very advanced yet but it is easily possible.

 

Think on this. Do you want a two year old, a "terrible two" in case you have never had children, to have the knowledge to control nuclear fission? Or would you prefer someone with a more mature level of capabilities? Now imagine that the power to create worlds must come with it the power to destroy worlds. Do you really think man, at our current level of maturity, should have such power?

 

"Lorenzo Snow once said, "as man is now god once was, as god is now man may become" so I ask, "How is this achieved? When we die does our soul, or spirit (or whatever you want to call it) move to a higher dimension naturally?"

 

Again you want to learn calculus but don't want to learn basic math first. What if I tell you that the entire Church structure serves as one giant teaching apparatus to prepare you to learn how to do this in the afterlife? You need to do the prep work first.

Edited March 13, 2014 by jaxenro

[Yirgacheffe]

Science and LDS go hand in hand. One of my first calsses at BYU-Idaho was basic science. It really was cool to hear that explained a lot of now-known science into LDS theology. A lot of the class was almost based just on trying to see both sides of the issue.

A college science course spent a lot of time discussing religion and how well it fit with science?

[Truth 101]

Jax is expressing his own opinions on time and space and God. If he is quoting official LDS doctrine he will state it. Even the paraphrase from Joseph Smith was not meant to imply official LDS sanction to the argument given.

 

"Another argument is this: we are taught that god created us in his own image. Again, for the sake of argument, let's say that tomorrow a race of alien explorers made first contact with us but looking nothing at all like us. What would that mean for the scriptures? If god created intelligent life in his own image than why are there intelligent beings from another world that look nothing like us?"

 

You are debating a hypothetical. I could counter and state what if aliens showed up and looked exactly like us would that then prove the scriptures? You are not discussing sciene but science-fiction.

 

"God may be able to see outside the analogy we are using for time, a tunnel, but that would mean he is a being that exists in a higher dimension"

 

Exactly. Yet you still persist in expecting God to act in a manner that conforms your dimension.

 

"But I don't accept that. If god was once like us then that means we must be able to somehow comprehend how he is able to do what he does."

 

Yes we have the potential to cmprehend how he is able to do what he does. Just as a two year old child has the potential to comprehend calculus. I know it may pain you to realize that on a developmental level we just aren't very advanced yet but it is easily possible.

 

Think on this. Do you want a two year old, a "terrible two" in case you have never had children, to have the knowledge to control nuclear fission? Or would you prefer someone with a more mature level of capabilities? Now imagine that the power to create worlds must come with it the power to destroy worlds. Do you really think man, at our current level of maturity, should have such power?

 

Yes you're right, I do expect god to act in a manner that conforms to our dimension, but also while conforming to his own. If god does exist in a higher dimension that dimension also encompasses our own.

 

Aliens coming to earth and contacting us is more probable than god contacting us directly. But that is just my opinion, so one could say that god is theocracy-fiction (I couldn't find a better word so you'll have to excuse my imprecision with words on that one)

 

Man already has the power to destroy worlds *cough thermonuclear weapons cough*

 

On the whole aliens and science fiction thing and it all being hypothetical. I could just as easily say your idea of god is hypothetical. Just as my idea is hypothetical. That's why we're discussing it.

[jaxenro]

"Man already has the power to destroy worlds *cough thermonuclear weapons cough*"

 

Pales in comparison. I am not talking about pullting the enviroment so life struggles for a period of millions of years but returning the earth itself to unorganized matter.

 

So let me ask you a question. If you refuse to account for Divine internention how do you account for the creation of life? For your own existence?

[Truth 101]

Well there are many theories

 

Premordial soup where proteins just bounced around to form amino acids that eventually formed DNA that eventually turned into mononucleic life that evolved into polynucleic life that evolved higher and higher etc. etc.

 

Forms of life in hibernation came to earth in the form of an asteroid or comet and seeded our world billions of years ago.

 

Those are just two theories

 

Hell one theory is that we were created by aliens, and another is that we are all living in a virtual reality like the matrix. 

 

If we were created via intelligent design I don't think it was done by a singular entity. But to remain objective I can't completely dismiss it. I just think it is the least probable, or among the least probable I should say.