Seventies

[JLHPROF]

I have been reading up on the office of "Seventy" lately and as always, I would like to get some feedback from the board.

The history of the Seventy in the church administration structure has changed and developed but that's not a really big deal.  However, the Seventy as a priesthood office is a bit harder to pin down.

In orthodox tradition they are known as the seventy apostles - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventy_disciples and the early LDS church also considered them apostles:

 

History of the Church 2:346 - “This day the Council [presidency] of the Seventy met to render an account of their travels and ministry, since they were ordained to that Apostleship.”

and

The seventies are called to be assistants to the twelve apostles; indeed they are apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, subject to the direction of the Twelve, - Joseph F. Smith Gospel Doctrine 183

 

but Bruce R. McConkie considered them to be basically elders with a special calling.

 

"One of the ordained offices in the Melchizedek Priesthood is that of a seventy. Seventies are elders with all the powers of elders, plus a special call and ordination "to preach the gospel, and to be especial witnesses unto the Gentiles and in all the world."

 

Prior to 1986 men in local wards/stakes were actually ordained as seventies, just like elders and high priests.  Administratively the Church chose to remove those quorums and ordain the members as high priests - pretty straightforward. 

 

But does that mean that nobody is actually ordained to the priesthood office of "seventy" anymore?  Is that a defunct priesthood office?  I am curious since someone suggested to me that we could get by without the Aaronic office of Teacher too.  I understand that the Quorum of Seventy today hasn't really changed since it's founding, but are members still "ordained" seventies or are they high priests who are "set apart" as seventies?

What do we know about "Seventy" as a priesthood office (as opposed to administratively)?

[Bob Crockett]

This confusing discussion sort of tries to straighten out the conflict.  

 

http://bycommonconsent.com/2011/09/26/the-seventy-part-4-b-h-roberts-era/

 

Seventies were general authorities during Joseph Smith's day.   One of my ancestors, Theordore Turley, was one.  Then, in the Salt Lake Valley under Brigham Young they fell into an inferior status and Brigham Young didn't use them as general authorities.  

 

BH Roberts tried to restore the prestige of the office.

 

Seventy is still a priesthood office in the church, at least as the membership records handle them.  They are holdovers from an older era; a seventy in our ward (who was probably made a seventy immediatley after returning from his mission) was recently made a high priest.

 

When I was a 23 year old elder I was called as a ward mission leader and my stake president said that he would break from established procedure and not call me as one of the seven presidents of seventy in the stake, as to do so would preclude me from many callings to come in the future, such as elders q president.  (His prophecy was fulfilled!)

Edited February 13, 2014 by Bob Crockett

[Freedom]

It is a bit unclear, but here are some points to consider at least as far as I understand them:

 

There are 5 offices in the MP: Elder, 70, High Priest, Patriarch, Apostle. 

There are 5 quorums: Elder, High Priest, 70, Apostle, First Presidency. 

 

So, one can hold the office of a Patriarch but belong to a High Priest quorum. An area or general 70 is affiliated with two quorums - one of the quorums of the 70, and his stake High Priest quorum. All 70's are High Priests. So, they hold the office of a high priest but belong to the quorum of 70. 

 

An elder is an office, a quorum, and a title. All members of the MP are elders in this last respect. Even apostles (D&C 20:38)

 

The 12 apostles are equal in both power and authority to the first presidency (107:24), but the 70 are only equal in authority (107:26). The 70 are difference from all other quorums due to the nature of their calling: they special witnesses unto the gentiles all over the world. I am not sure how this is different than any other MP officer, the scriptures are not clear. 

[JLHPROF]

 All 70's are High Priests. So, they hold the office of a high priest but belong to the quorum of 70. 

 

 

But that was reallly my point.  Didn't they used to be a separate priesthood office?  Are current seventies all high priests or are they ordained as seventies instead of high priests?  And what of the statements that seventies are apostles?  (And the D&C says Elders are Apostles, not High Priests - although Wilford Woodruff said there are High Priest Apostles, Seventy Apostles and Elder Apostles).

 

Is anyone ordained to the office of seventy any more or is it just a calling like Stake President now?  And does that mean other priesthood offices, like Teacher, might also become superfluous?

[Stone holm]

I was ordained a Seventy. The Seventy that we have now are High Priests. Back when there were local Stake Seventy Quorums there was a special spirit about Seventies, you could kind of pick them out of a group of members, just like you can spot a missionary pair in a crowd. It was kind of a bittersweet moment for me when I was called into a bishopric and had to leave the Seventy Quorum.

[3DOP]

And I was sure the thread was going to be an opportunity to talk about my belief in the death of rock music (how about that allegedly live/dead? album with Stephen Stills on the cover wearing a Cleveland Browns jersey), colorful bell bottoms, and sideburns. Anyway, "carry on, love is coming to us all."

Edited February 14, 2014 by 3DOP

[Duncan]

When someone is called to be a General Authority 70, 1st and 2nd Quorum they are ordained to the office of a 70 as are brethren who are Area 70's in the 3-8th quorums-these though are not general authorities

[Scott Lloyd]

I have been reading up on the office of "Seventy" lately and as always, I would like to get some feedback from the board.

The history of the Seventy in the church administration structure has changed and developed but that's not a really big deal.  However, the Seventy as a priesthood office is a bit harder to pin down.

In orthodox tradition they are known as the seventy apostles - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventy_disciples and the early LDS church also considered them apostles:

 

 

but Bruce R. McConkie considered them to be basically elders with a special calling.

 

Prior to 1986 men in local wards/stakes were actually ordained as seventies, just like elders and high priests.  Administratively the Church chose to remove those quorums and ordain the members as high priests - pretty straightforward. 

 

But does that mean that nobody is actually ordained to the priesthood office of "seventy" anymore?  Is that a defunct priesthood office?  I am curious since someone suggested to me that we could get by without the Aaronic office of Teacher too.  I understand that the Quorum of Seventy today hasn't really changed since it's founding, but are members still "ordained" seventies or are they high priests who are "set apart" as seventies?

What do we know about "Seventy" as a priesthood office (as opposed to administratively)?

I posted this in a thread her not too long ago, but for whatever use it might be to you, here it is again.

 

It's an article I wrote nearly three years ago on the office of Seventy.

 

If you already saw it from the link I gave in the prior thread, please pardon my superfluous posting of it again.

[Coreyb]

I don't have a reference, but I heard a story in an old talk about seventies and high priests. Apparently, seventies originally were never made high priests. When the policy was changed (I think it was under David O. McKay) to allow men to be ordained both, a man confronted whichever prophet it was with a quote from Joseph Smith saying "it is against the order of heaven for a seventy to be ordained a high priest". The prophet asked the man if he thought it was possible for it to be against the order of heaven in Joseph Smiths day, but in our day to be the order of heaven, and the will of God. The whole story was used to teach that a living prophet is more important than a dead prophet. Anybody else heard that before?

[mfbukowski]

This confusing discussion sort of tries to straighten out the conflict.  

 

http://bycommonconsent.com/2011/09/26/the-seventy-part-4-b-h-roberts-era/

 

Seventies were general authorities during Joseph Smith's day.   One of my ancestors, Theordore Turley, was one.  Then, in the Salt Lake Valley under Brigham Young they fell into an inferior status and Brigham Young didn't use them as general authorities.  

 

BH Roberts tried to restore the prestige of the office.

 

Seventy is still a priesthood office in the church, at least as the membership records handle them.  They are holdovers from an older era; a seventy in our ward (who was probably made a seventy immediatley after returning from his mission) was recently made a high priest.

 

When I was a 23 year old elder I was called as a ward mission leader and my stake president said that he would break from established procedure and not call me as one of the seven presidents of seventy in the stake, as to do so would preclude me from many callings to come in the future, such as elders q president.  (His prophecy was fulfilled!)

I was one of the presidents of seventies after being called as WML.

 

It is my understanding that the office still exists among "The Seventies", and that theoretically if one of us old seventies was called as a member of one of the present Quorums of Seventy, we would only have to be set apart, and not ordained to the priesthood office since we already have been ordained, much as once a Bishop has served as a Bishop, that priesthood office remains "dormant"

 

When bishops are called to serve a second or third time, they are only set apart in the calling, and no additional ordinations are required.

[mfbukowski]

But that was reallly my point.  Didn't they used to be a separate priesthood office?  Are current seventies all high priests or are they ordained as seventies instead of high priests?  And what of the statements that seventies are apostles?  (And the D&C says Elders are Apostles, not High Priests - although Wilford Woodruff said there are High Priest Apostles, Seventy Apostles and Elder Apostles).

 

Is anyone ordained to the office of seventy any more or is it just a calling like Stake President now?  And does that mean other priesthood offices, like Teacher, might also become superfluous?

Now only members of the Quorums of the Seventy are ordained Seventies- that is my understanding.  They are all High Priests anyway.

[Duncan]

I don't have a reference, but I heard a story in an old talk about seventies and high priests. Apparently, seventies originally were never made high priests. When the policy was changed (I think it was under David O. McKay) to allow men to be ordained both, a man confronted whichever prophet it was with a quote from Joseph Smith saying "it is against the order of heaven for a seventy to be ordained a high priest". The prophet asked the man if he thought it was possible for it to be against the order of heaven in Joseph Smiths day, but in our day to be the order of heaven, and the will of God. The whole story was used to teach that a living prophet is more important than a dead prophet. Anybody else heard that before?

 

 

I have and it was Harold B. Lee and yeah you're right they changed it so members of the 1st Council of the 70 were ordained High Priests in 1961

[ERayR]

But that was reallly my point.  Didn't they used to be a separate priesthood office?  Are current seventies all high priests or are they ordained as seventies instead of high priests?  And what of the statements that seventies are apostles?  (And the D&C says Elders are Apostles, not High Priests - although Wilford Woodruff said there are High Priest Apostles, Seventy Apostles and Elder Apostles).

 

Is anyone ordained to the office of seventy any more or is it just a calling like Stake President now?  And does that mean other priesthood offices, like Teacher, might also become superfluous?

 

Nope. 

[ERayR]

I was one of the presidents of seventies after being called as WML.

 

It is my understanding that the office still exists among "The Seventies", and that theoretically if one of us old seventies was called as a member of one of the present Quorums of Seventy, we would only have to be set apart, and not ordained to the priesthood office since we already have been ordained, much as once a Bishop has served as a Bishop, that priesthood office remains "dormant"

 

When bishops are called to serve a second or third time, they are only set apart in the calling, and no additional ordinations are required.

 

That is the direction that was given me when I was called as a High Priest and released as senior president of our stake 70's quorum.  There is really only one Melchizedek Priesthood all the rest is only callings in that Melchizedek Priesthood.  It is called keys tp fulfill ones calling.

Edited February 14, 2014 by ERayR