Bill “Papa” Lee Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Confused after watching this?Or we could just go with the words of Christ himself in John 17.
mfbukowski Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 No.Three persons one in purpose.Simple. Like a family project. The trinity is based on Greek philosophy, not the bible. 3
EllenMaksoud Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Confused after watching this?So, what is your problem? We seek out these rigid ideas as if getting them perfectly is our key to glory. It is not so. Think really hard about the Atonement and what that means, and when you know that you are completely forgiven child of God, then getting everything exactly right will drop to its proper place, the bottom. 2
PtolemyGlenn Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 An analogy I use is water.You have water= GodWhen it freezes it turns to ice = JesusWhen you boil it it turns to steam = Holy SpiritIts all still water.They are not three seperate entities but are 3 in 1.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 So, what is your problem? We seek out these rigid ideas as if getting them perfectly is our key to glory. It is not so. Think really hard about the Atonement and what that means, and when you know that you are completely forgiven child of God, then getting everything exactly right will drop to its proper place, the bottom.I once wrote a thread asking..."When does someone become a Christian"?The point of the thread was to ask, does it mean when they accept Christ as Savior, or when they accept you view of Christ?It was on Christian Board, not to be named. It went on for months.
mfbukowski Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 An analogy I use is water.You have water= GodWhen it freezes it turns to ice = JesusWhen you boil it it turns to steam = Holy SpiritIts all still water.They are not three seperate entities but are 3 in 1.Watch the video.
EllenMaksoud Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I once wrote a thread asking..."When does someone become a Christian"?The point of the thread was to ask, does it mean when they accept Christ as Savior, or when they accept you view of Christ?It was on Christian Board, not to be named. It went on for months.Well, lets see here. IMHO, first we have to accept that we are not God, not the masters of our lives. Then of course there is the matter of Jesus Christ and the the reason he came here. Accepting that we need him too goes back to accepting that we are not God. Once we get that circle joined then there is the Atonement, which I accept but do not fully understand, it just is.
Calm Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) Watch the video.I don't normally watch videos, but this one is relatively painless and parts of it are very funny in a very intelligent way, IMO...and it speaks directly to your analogy so I second this advice, PG. Edited January 26, 2014 by calmoriah
Storm Rider Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 An analogy I use is water.You have water= GodWhen it freezes it turns to ice = JesusWhen you boil it it turns to steam = Holy SpiritIts all still water.They are not three seperate entities but are 3 in 1.Unfortunately, you have defined Modalism which is considered a heresy. What you have not defined is substance which is the "thing" that makes them one. 1
mfbukowski Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Unfortunately, you have defined Modalism which is considered a heresy. What you have not defined is substance which is the "thing" that makes them one.And unfortunately it cannot be defined without using synonyms.In this context the term is virtually meaningless.
mfbukowski Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I suppose we are all members of the trinity in that we are all one in being, since we are all beings.
Freedom Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 The analogy that the Book of Mormon is of inherited authority versus inherited genetics. Jesus is the father due to royal vestiture because he represents the Father through authority. He is the Son because of his biology. Just as a son may be promoted in his father's company to be equal in authority to Father (whether the son or the dad speaks, for the employee, it is the same); nevertheless, he is still the offspring, or son, of the owner. An analogy for the trinity is the government. You have a president, vice-president, cabinet members and chiefs of staff, but they are one government. I have heard the water analogy for the Nicene creed trinity, but it is flawed for a few reasons. Water appears in 4 forms (solid, liquid, gas, plasma) but never at the same time, and the nature of the molecules do not change, only their configuration. Also, saying they are all water is like saying we are all humans. Some of us are German, others are mexican, some of us are short, some of us tall, but we are all humans. So this tells us that they are all god, but different people, just as ice and water is are different collections of water molecules. Since we must be one as God is one, it seems obvious that it refers to the intents of our heart.
mfbukowski Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 It's supposed to be a mystery. So God is not smart enough to explain it in a way we can understand? Why is the trinity not in the bible? Isn't that supposed to contain all revelation? I guess that would mean the trinity is not revelation The whole concept is incoherent. 1
nebula Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 That was much funnier than I'd expected, thanks!
saemo Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) Confused after watching this?That was funny. Analogies always break down, and not just for explaining the Trinity.God has revealed Himself as One. I'm sure the long list of Biblical scripture that shows this revelation has been seen at this site more than once.God has also revealed Himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We accept what God has revealed, even though human attempts to describe God, including analogies, fall short. Edited January 26, 2014 by saemo 3
saemo Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 It's supposed to be a mystery. So God is not smart enough to explain it in a way we can understand? Why is the trinity not in the bible? Isn't that supposed to contain all revelation? I guess that would mean the trinity is not revelation The whole concept is incoherent.What? 2
PtolemyGlenn Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God. It is a denial of the Trinity. Modalism states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes, or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son and after Jesus' ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, this view states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time, only one after another. Modalism denies the distinctiveness of the three persons in the Trinity even though it retains the divinity of Christ.Present day groups that hold to forms of this error are the United Pentecostal and United Apostolic Churches. They deny the Trinity, teach that the name of God is Jesus, and require baptism for salvation. These modalist churches often accuse Trinitarians of teaching three gods. This is not what the Trinity is. The correct teaching of the Trinity is one God in three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.I would disagee. I do not deny the Trinity. And believe all three do co-exist at the same and not consecutivly one after the other. It is in keeping with Monotheism. As oppsed to the Trinity is 3 district gods that certain religious gruops even amobg some of the posters believe.Its one of those thibgs that you wish God had made it more simplier. While the word Trinity us nit nentioned the application is displayed through out the Bible.I'm sure somewhere it used to be simple ubtil we as people had to make it difficult Edited January 26, 2014 by PtolemyGlenn
BCSpace Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) The trinity is like a married couple and a marriage license. Obviously there are three Persons (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) in the trinity but for illustrative purposes, a married couple will do to represent the Persons of trinity. Since God is an abstraction in the trinity doctrine, God is the marriage license in this example. The marriage license is the 'Substance' (now 'Subsistence') that makes the couple married just as the abstract concept of God makes all three Persons God. Obviously, the trinity is not LDS doctrine, nor was it early Christian doctrine, nor can it be developed from the scriptures, and it is very unwise imho, to use the term to compare with LDS doctrine such as saying to someone, "Yes, we believe in the trinity too." Jesus said, Whom do men say that I am?And his disciples answered and said, Some say you are John the Baptist returned from the dead; others say Elias, or other of the old prophets.And Jesus answered and said, But whom do you say that I am?Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Logos, existing in the Father as His rationality and then, by an act of His will, being generated, in consideration of the various functions by which God is related to his creation, but only on the fact that Scripture speaks of a Father, and a Son, and a Holy Spirit, each member of the Trinity being coequal with every other member, and each acting inseparably with and interpenetrating every other member, with only an economic subordination within God, but causing no division which would make the substance no longer simple."And Jesus answering, said, "What?"-Barry Bickmore Edited January 26, 2014 by BCSpace
saemo Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) The trinity is like a married couple and a marriage license. Obviously there are three Persons (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) in the trinity but for illustrative purposes, a married couple will do to represent the Persons of trinity. Since God is an abstraction in the trinity doctrine, God is the marriage license in this example. The marriage license is the 'Substance' (now 'Subsistence') that makes the couple married just as the abstract concept of God makes all three Persons God.Obviously, the trinity is not LDS doctrine and it is very unwise imho, to use the term to compare with LDS doctrine such as saying to someone, "Yes, we believe in the trinity too."Oh, something about, don't tell me what I believe? God is not an abstraction to me.Peace. Edited January 26, 2014 by saemo 2
BCSpace Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Oh, something about, don't tell me what I believe? God is not an abstraction to me.Peace. Indeed I won't tell you what you believe. But I am certainly able to tell you what the trinity doctrine is. Most Christians including Mormons can't even describe it accurately much less actually believe in it.
BCSpace Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) Starting at 6:59 of the video in the OP, the gentleman contradicts scripture: "That would be scary because if we could understand God, we'd be equal to God". John 17:3Philippians 2:5-6And a host of verses testifying of the doctrine of the Theosis of man. Earlier he probably contradicts the Bible doctrine of Subordinationism by calling it 'Economic'. He'd probably also disagree with the anthropomorphic and physical nature of God as described in the Bible (and by the early Christian Fathers) as well. Edited January 26, 2014 by BCSpace
Rivers Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 The trinity is what Mormons believe. The Father is God. The Son is God . The Holy Ghost is God.
PtolemyGlenn Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 The trinity is what Mormons believe. The Father is God. The Son is God . The Holy Ghost is God.So this from a former Mormon is incorrect?LDS Article 1: "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.""Mormons do not believe in the Trinity as we understand it. They believe that God and Jesus were separate physical people" who dwelled on the earth, Johnston said. God was Jesus' father, and both men died."They do have a 'Holy Ghost' that is very similar to our understanding of the Holy Spirit,"
Storm Rider Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 So this from a former Mormon is incorrect?LDS Article 1: "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.""Mormons do not believe in the Trinity as we understand it. They believe that God and Jesus were separate physical people" who dwelled on the earth, Johnston said. God was Jesus' father, and both men died."They do have a 'Holy Ghost' that is very similar to our understanding of the Holy Spirit," That is not Mormon doctrine.
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