Is It Time To Change The Way We Do Sacrament Meeting?

[thatjimguy]

If we ask for "Preaching" instead of talks, you will only hear from those trying to speak and act differently than they are, or those who excel will be the only ones asked. I grew up in an Old Fashioned Church. "Preaching" is not for the faint of heart.

 

 

I can see the truth to this, but I think when people are given the chance to talk, they should do it in thier own voice and style. As long as it is sincere, it should be good to go.

[mormonnewb]

 

We regularly get investigators coming to our sacrament meeting and never returning, and I can't say I blame them.

It's interesting that you made that point because I too find sac meeting to be an obstacle to evangelism. I've only once invited someone to attend sac meeting. Instead, I'll invite them to ward basketball, trunk or treat, temple open houses, etc. In fact, my mother is currently between churches and has told me what she is looking for in a church service and it is NOT what we offer.

That being said, I've come to enjoy sac meeting but it was certainly an acquired taste.

P.S. As for preaching, forget about it! Even if the preacher could be heard over the din of the children, it still wouldn't work because it requires call and response from the congregation (e.g., "Amen!", "Preach it, Brother!", "Yes, Lord!"). I'm not sure "the uplifted hand" is going to be as effective in spurring on the preacher.

[Garden Girl]

In fact, my mother is currently between churches and has told me what she is looking for in a church service and it is NOT what we offer.

That being said, I've come to enjoy sac meeting but it was certainly an acquired taste.

 

What a shame... NOT what we offer??  What we offer is the fullness of the gospel... I can agree to a point with some of the comments made about our services...

My experience:  I had been inactive for just over 30 years even though from time to time during those years the Spirit tugged at me to return to Church... finally after the sudden death of my mom I did return.  I felt such a hunger for the Spirit and "church."  I would watch TBN channel and would get all fired up with the "style" of preaching, clapping, singing, etc etc.  Then came Gen Conf and as I watched the cool, softer voices of the speakers invited the Spirit to go deep into my heart and soul with the content of the message, and not just superficially on the surface as the antics of the "preachers" with their loud emotional shouts and exhortations... In fact, the next time I tuned in to TBN I found that "style" to actually grate on me and I turned away from that style and appreciated our meetings... I still have a few that I tune in to occasionally... Charles Stanley, Frederick Williams, Joyce Meyer... but the others now turn me away...

 

GG

[wtrdog]

For example, should we encourage preaching rather than talks?

Perhaps more modern hymns and music should be introduced?

Perhaps we should not assign speakers all the time and just "let the holy spirit guide"?

 

Wouldn't this be called F&T meeting?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by letting the spirit guide though.  All speakers should be letting the spirit guide, and that process should start before they stand up.  I myself am the sort that doesn't type up a talk.  I'll ponder on the topic, maybe read some stuff, and then at most I'll make some bullet points though usually have nothing.  And then I just speak.  Some people just get up there and read a conference talk.  I rather like the model we have though, as its at the discretion of the speaker.  It's their opportunity to say whatever the heck they want.  I really don't want to hear the gospel according to Monson, or whoever, I'd prefer hearing the gospel according to that member who is speaking.  But some, perhaps most, are timid and they defer to the opinions of others.

 

Well we need to hire some professional clergy to put on a good show for us, get some gospel music going and maybe start speaking in tongues.

 

And of course then we could pass the plate to pay for the performers.  No need for these amateurs who don't know what they're doing- we need some pros- that's what we need!

 

Maybe throw in some dancers and a free lunch too?   That'd bring 'em in!

 

The problem is those dang bishops just don't know what's important.  Entertainment is what it's all about!  Can't let folks sit back and think- keep it moving- that's what we need.

 

Amen.  

 

I do think some legitimate changes could be made to sacrament meeting though.  It varies from place to place, but in some areas leadership tends to be very intolerant of children, like they forgot they ever had any when they grew old or something.  I'm quite sick of the sermons to silence the kids.  Reverence is important of course, but let's keep things realistic.  If we're expected to be perfectly quiet, then perhaps we should change the layout of the room so that there is a kids section or something.  Let's have some assigned seating.  And if it's still not good enough, perhaps we should separate the sacrament ordinance from the talks.  Let's do sunday school/priesthood/RS first, then sacrament as the 3rd hour.  We'll do the ordinance, and since my kids are too loud, we are free to go home afterwards rather than rot in the hallway for 45-60 minutes.  In our ward close to 70-80 people hang out in the hallway every sacrament meeting.  Our stake president is in our ward, and he's a tyrant when it comes to kids and noise.  So everybody just goes to the hallway and it's a zoo.  Absolutely miserable and I feel it's a huge waste of my time.  All in a rush to get to church on time so I can rot in the hallway.  It makes me want to just bless the sacrament at home by myself and we'll show up for the 2nd/3rd hrs.  Actually, maybe that's a good idea.  How about have the talks first, and do the sacrament 15 minutes before 1st hr ends.  So at that scheduled time, talks are over, and the parents and kids can wander in.  The people without kids who came for the talks, they should sit in the front leaving the back rows open.  So give us 5 minutes to come in and sit, then we do the sacrament.  I'd like that.  Then when the kids are old enough to meet the stake presidents decibal approval we'll start coming for the talks.

[Kenngo1969]

...  I'm quite sick of the sermons to silence the kids. ...

I agree.  Your post reminded me of this: http://www.lds.org/ensign/print/2012/06/a-friend-in-the-bishop?lang=eng&clang=eng

 

I have no children of my own, and perhaps I never will.  (I have become what my Old Great Granny used to call An Old Bach! ) Our Elders Quorum has quite a number of fathers with children who are not yet Nursery age, and all of the families on my Home Teaching route have young children.   While it's easy for me to say this because I don't have to deal with the children during their day-to-day not-so-good moments, one of the things I like most about going to Church is interacting with the little ones.  (What can I say?  I'm just young at heart!)  Maybe some would accuse me of encouraging the children of my Ward to be irreverent!  

 

While my father has never been a Bishop (and, aside from being stationed in some fairly populous areas as a Military Policeman in the Army) never worked in a major metropolitan area, he was a police officer for 43 years before he retired (30 in a smaller suburb 30 miles from Salt Lake City).  He has the same "aura" as the Bishop in the article I linked to above.  People often thought he was rather gruff, but from time to time, his more sensitive side came out.  

 

I remember riding along with him once when we went to a call of a domestic dispute, and after he came back to the car he told me he couldn't take the man of the house to jail because a little four-year-old had come up to him when he first went into the house and latched onto one of his legs (he probably couldn't get both arms around the leg; my dad, um, isn't a small guy ) and begged him, "Please don't take my daddy to jail!"  (We often say, "Oh, the things we do for our kids," but sometimes it's the other way around: sometimes, it's what they do for us! )  

 

On another occasion I remember, I was with him when we responded to an auto-pedestrian accident: A motorist had struck a child on a bicycle who was trying to cross the street (against a light, I believe).  We get there, the car's front end and the bicycle both are pretty mangled: there are fragments of glass and plastic everywhere, and twisted metal.  The scene is secured, the kid's still breathing and his heart's still beating (it wasn't hard to tell, since anyone within about a block radius could hear him. Meanwhile, all of these officers are standing around awkwardly waiting for an ambulance because there was nothing else they thought they could do.  My dad gets down on his hands and knees in the middle of this mess and starts whispering in the child's ear.  I thought perhaps he was trying to get more information out of him, to find out, for example, where, of all the many places he likely hurt, where he hurt the most.  When I asked him about it when he got back into the car, he said, "Oh, I was just trying to comfort him."    Made me think.  My dad's not perfect, but I'm proud of him, I'm proud of the Bishop in the linked article, and of everyone who honors the uniform he or she wears.

 

[/THREADJACK OFF]  (Sorry, Brother/Bishop Alan! )

Edited January 26, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[Calm]

I have to confess...I stash finger puppets in my scripture case....just in case.

[Rivers]

Sacrament meeting is always a hit and miss for me.  Sometimes there are great speakers that uplift and inspire me. Sometimes there are speakers that put me to sleep.  Maybe bishops should identify all of the talented speakers in the ward and keep rotating them out.

[mfbukowski]

If you don't know how long you are supposed to speak, why wouldn't you just ask?

 

Usually i'm given a length, but if not, then I ask the person who asked me to talk how long they want it to be.

 

I get your other points though, and some kind of training might help.  What I see as tending to help is when there are more than two adult speakers and a youth speaker.  Speaking for 20-25 minutes can be hard, especially if someone's not that great of a speaker or not that great at preparing talks because of nerves or whatever.  But if the talks are shorter, then it's so much easier to get thru a really bad one, because you know it's not going to last forever.  

 

And this doesn't even really apply to only 'bad' talks, but also applies to talks that just aren't meant for 'you'.  If you have half the meeting spent on a topic that you don't really need to hear or that has little to do with you, it can be a lonnggg meeting.  That talk might be awesome for some people of course, but it probably won't touch everyone because everyone is in a different place in their life.  On such occasions it's nice to be able to look forward to the next speakers.

I think most members know how it works.  When I  confirm companion speakers for hc talks I almost never have to tell them what they need to do.

 

But yes, for new people that would be necessary.  But I suppose the people I speak with are pretty experienced.

[mfbukowski]

Some interesting responses.

When I was less active a number of years ago, I visited quite a few different churches in the area. These ranged from outright pentecostal "dancing in the aisles" type churches, through various evangelical shades, and on to Baptist, Methodist, Church of England (Anglican) and Catholic. It was an interesting experience and it lasted about 5 years.

There was one service I would go to quite regularly at the Church of England which was really great. It had a good mix of traditional and contemporary styles, nothing too loud and irreverent but also not too dull and regimented. And it introduced me to a new experience............. actually being disappointed the service was over, wishing it could have lasted longer, and looking forward to returning next week.

This is something I have never, ever, felt in our church in 40 years of membership (convert at 14).

Did I feel the Spirit? Yes I did. I can still remember the words that were said and the way I felt when the vicar spoke about the Prodigal Son. It was moving to say the least!

All I know is that they had something in their meeting that we don't have.

 

Now, when we read of the early church in Kirtland and elsewhere, we find that the services were much more spirit led, often entirely spontaneous, full of preaching and vibrant singing etc. It seems to me we lost our way somewhere along the line. Nowadays we have a "programme"; we have a set liturgy in a way. Announcements, OH, OP, Business, SH, Sacrament, 1st speaker (usually a youth reading a story from the New Era), 2nd speaker, IH, final speaker, CH, CP. It drives me to distraction!

 

We regularly get investigators coming to our sacrament meeting and never returning, and I can't say I blame them.

 

And while I'm on the subject, it really is now time in my view, to modify the 3 hour block to 2 hours. We don't need two lesson sessions.

Our stake is quite different.  I am sorry you feel this way.

[mfbukowski]

Well we need to hire some professional clergy to put on a good show for us, get some gospel music going and maybe start speaking in tongues.

 

And of course then we could pass the plate to pay for the performers.  No need for these amateurs who don't know what they're doing- we need some pros- that's what we need!

 

Maybe throw in some dancers and a free lunch too?   That'd bring 'em in!

 

The problem is those dang bishops just don't know what's important.  Entertainment is what it's all about!  Can't let folks sit back and think- keep it moving- that's what we need.

Uh, this was sarcasm.

[mfbukowski]

I have never in my life been in a meeting where silencing children was even mentioned.  But I have only been a member 33 years.

[mfbukowski]

Wouldn't this be called F&T meeting?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by letting the spirit guide though.  All speakers should be letting the spirit guide, and that process should start before they stand up.  I myself am the sort that doesn't type up a talk.  I'll ponder on the topic, maybe read some stuff, and then at most I'll make some bullet points though usually have nothing.  And then I just speak.  Some people just get up there and read a conference talk.  I rather like the model we have though, as its at the discretion of the speaker.  It's their opportunity to say whatever the heck they want.  I really don't want to hear the gospel according to Monson, or whoever, I'd prefer hearing the gospel according to that member who is speaking.  But some, perhaps most, are timid and they defer to the opinions of others.

 

 

Amen.  

 

I do think some legitimate changes could be made to sacrament meeting though.  It varies from place to place, but in some areas leadership tends to be very intolerant of children, like they forgot they ever had any when they grew old or something.  I'm quite sick of the sermons to silence the kids.  Reverence is important of course, but let's keep things realistic.  If we're expected to be perfectly quiet, then perhaps we should change the layout of the room so that there is a kids section or something.  Let's have some assigned seating.  And if it's still not good enough, perhaps we should separate the sacrament ordinance from the talks.  Let's do sunday school/priesthood/RS first, then sacrament as the 3rd hour.  We'll do the ordinance, and since my kids are too loud, we are free to go home afterwards rather than rot in the hallway for 45-60 minutes.  In our ward close to 70-80 people hang out in the hallway every sacrament meeting.  Our stake president is in our ward, and he's a tyrant when it comes to kids and noise.  So everybody just goes to the hallway and it's a zoo.  Absolutely miserable and I feel it's a huge waste of my time.  All in a rush to get to church on time so I can rot in the hallway.  It makes me want to just bless the sacrament at home by myself and we'll show up for the 2nd/3rd hrs.  Actually, maybe that's a good idea.  How about have the talks first, and do the sacrament 15 minutes before 1st hr ends.  So at that scheduled time, talks are over, and the parents and kids can wander in.  The people without kids who came for the talks, they should sit in the front leaving the back rows open.  So give us 5 minutes to come in and sit, then we do the sacrament.  I'd like that.  Then when the kids are old enough to meet the stake presidents decibal approval we'll start coming for the talks.

One of the approved block plans is sacrament last.  Your stake president can change it if he wants to.

[Kenngo1969]

Sacrament meeting is always a hit and miss for me.  Sometimes there are great speakers that uplift and inspire me. Sometimes there are speakers that put me to sleep.  Maybe bishops should identify all of the talented speakers in the ward and keep rotating them out.

The ones who put you to sleep are meant to make you appreciate, all the more, those who inspire you.  I guarantee you that if we took a poll of everyone who has heard you speak, we would find people in both camps.  Just sayin'!  (Hey, I know! Let's have a "Survivor"-like contest for Sacrament Meeting speakers in each Ward! )   

[why me]

 

I would be particularly interested to hear the comments of those who have experience of both LDS and other churches meetings, including converts who have gone either way.

LDS sacrament meetings are falling victim to technology and new forms of social media. These days the attention span of people is on the wane. People expect instant entertainment and People expect a show to hold that attention. As such sacrament meeting is rather slow in entertainment and people can get bored rather easily.

 

The quality of the talks also are suffering from instant media where people no longer have the skills to speak in public because many of their connections are on facebook etc and where skimming ans scanning through media sources is the norm. If one notices, it is the more entertaining evangelists that are succeeding. They have the music and the flair to hold an audience. They have public speaking skills and they know how to hold an audience. They are professionals.

 

When in sacrament meeting take a look around and see if you see anyone who can preach like joel osteen or joyce meyer or creflo dollar. And the answer will most likely be a no.

[why me]

The ones who put you to sleep are meant to make you appreciate, all the more, those who inspire you.  

Many of us are victims of the technology that makes many into boring clones. People stare into the ipad, the iphone, the smart phone, shop online, do online banking, and whatever else they can do without eye to eye communication. No wonder people are putting other people to sleep when speaking in public.

[firepatch36]

I think that each block should be shortened by 10 minutes for two and a half hour church time total. That would (hopefully) make talks  and lessons more focused and concise.