Thee, Thy, Thou - Archaic English - Essential To L D S Prayer

[Tacenda]

In our church it seems we've been taught, atleast I have, that he is like a physical father just like our earthly father. And to pray to him often, similar to call our own fathers often. Maybe for some, that's their relationship, ie: wassup, howdy, etc. It doesn't seem like a close relationship if we are, so-called, proper in our prayers, in fact it is just adding more words, unnecessary words, IMO. Not speaking about a public prayer of course. But it's our church that makes Him out to be a person with flesh and bones, and once a man like us.

[The Nehor]

You didn't answer the question.

 

I have two children. My wife and I have strict rules about behavior and responsibility. We have never told them that they have to address us a certain way. My son calls me Dad and my daughter calls me Dad or Daddy (she's 23).

In other words you have some basic rules. I assume you would be taken aback by your child calling you by your first name or "sperm donor" or anything like that. Not necessarily because it harms you but it shows that something is off about the relationship.

[Damien the Leper]

Whoa, easy there Wikipedia Brown.  Dumb it down a little so we can all participate here.

 

Nothing to dumb down.

[Calm]

In other words you have some basic rules. I assume you would be taken aback by your child calling you by…. "sperm donor"...

Hmm…my son and his wife wanted to know what to have the grandkids call me, I don't like "grandma" all that much for some reason, perhaps I will suggest "egg popper".

[Mustard]

Very interesting post, thanks

[Gray]

I use modern language in my prayers. I used to use thees and thous but it was putting up a barrier between me and God. Also it always felt like an affectation.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Gray

[flameburns623]

Some traditionalist Anglicans also use the reverential pronouns and actually argue strenuously for retaining the tradition, at least in public prayer. It can be a significant issue for them.

[JustaSeeker]

I've enjoyed the discussion thus far and appreciate the perspectives shared. Can anybody share how the issue is handled in other languages? Most languages have formal and informal forms of address, but are speakers of other languages asked to use archaic forms of address from their languages as well? Would the Swahili or Shona translations of the BoM be written in the formal form of contemporary language, or would older, archaic versions of formal address from the 16th century be preferred on principle? 

 

Rather than derailing the topic, perhaps one could inbox me with some comments or reference resources. 

 

Thank you!

[Scott Lloyd]

I've enjoyed the discussion thus far and appreciate the perspectives shared. Can anybody share how the issue is handled in other languages? Most languages have formal and informal forms of address, but are speakers of other languages asked to use archaic forms of address from their languages as well? Would the Swahili or Shona translations of the BoM be written in the formal form of contemporary language, or would older, archaic versions of formal address from the 16th century be preferred on principle? 

 

Rather than derailing the topic, perhaps one could inbox me with some comments or reference resources. 

 

Thank you!

I have already addressed this to some extent in my post #142 on this thread, as it pertains to the Swedish language.

 

In short, the informal pronouns du and dig (thou and thee) and din (thy or thine) are used in the scriptures and in prayers in Latter-day Saint congregations. But in everyday speech, the pronoun dig is pronounced "day," while in prayers and scripture reading, it is pronounced more formally and precisely as "deeg." Thus, while the informal and intimate forms are used, they are pronounced with precision as a show of respect and reverence.

[Five Solas]

Since Mustard saw fit to resurrect my poor thread, I'll add a confession:  A lot has changed, even in the ~ 9 years since I left the LDS Church.  And I was a little concerned my sister (the impetus for this thread) might have fallen behind the times.  So before I launched my OP, I looked up a recent General Conference prayer (a rather famous one as it happens--the first ever by a woman).  A defensive measure--I didn't want to get lambasted with a, "We don't teach that anymore."

 

It's interesting to listen to.  For those committed to the LDS way of doing prayer--Jean A. Stevens is a model of doing it right.  The half-dozen times she drops a pronoun during her minute & a half, she never misses a beat.  It's William Tyndale all the way--although I'm skeptical she did so with any intent of honoring the man who famously rendered Greek pronouns in informal, casual English.  (But who knows, perhaps she sees the irony and follows protocol tongue in cheek.)

 

For those who've never been LDS or who, like me, no longer hear this kind of thing all the time--it comes across as stilted, unnatural--Stevens evident discipline & practice notwithstanding.  But perhaps I'm being unfair.  So I post it here for you to decide for yourself.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6rCaPnjPzo

 

--Erik