Thee, Thy, Thou - Archaic English - Essential To L D S Prayer

[The Nehor]

some will see how your second sentence contradicts your first, when the "one acquired" is formal, reverent usage.  Pope Francis (post # 203) really has the right idea here, echoing the Reformer Tyndale, ~ 500 years earlier.  (btw, how cool is that?)

 

Uhhh....no. Blending two things is not the same as one replacing the other.

 

 

you message more than a hint of desperation to your readers with this sort of thing

 

Desperation is one of the last emotions I feel when disagreeing with you. A bit of frustration with your nonsensical arguments...yeah. A little pained by your stubborn insistence on things disproved....sure. A little amused by your strawmen.....sure. Pity at your ignorance and willful stupidity......definitely. Desperation.....not a chance.

[volgadon]

Father, Mother, may I meet you In your royal courts on high?

 

 

These are two people, not one.

[Rob Osborn]

These are two people, not one.

So, its a matter of grammer and not respect? Thats the whole point.

[volgadon]

So, its a matter of grammer and not respect? Thats the whole point.

 

If one is addressing God, then using thou is a matter of respect. When addressing God and someone else, using thou becomes a matter of atrocious grammar. As Ecclesiastes said quoting Pete Seeger, to everything, turn, turn, turn...

[Rob Osborn]

If one is addressing God, then using thou is a matter of respect. When jaddressing God and someone else, using thou becomes a matter of atrocious grammar. As Ecclesiastes said quoting Pete Seeger, to everything, turn, turn, turn...

I agree that using thou is a show of respect according to tradition. But, I also believe that you and your is also respectful. As for the archaic English rules, it just seems that its all a little overboard and in my opinion makes prayer too flowery and not from the heart.

[volgadon]

I agree that using thou is a show of respect according to tradition. But, I also believe that you and your is also respectful. As for the archaic English rules, it just seems that its all a little overboard and in my opinion makes prayer too flowery and not from the heart.

 

They and them can also be respectful, but you wouldn't pray to God saying "I ask them to bless me..." My point is that a proper grammatical use of the plural you has nothing to do with the respectful use of the singular thou in our liturgy.

[Rob Osborn]

They and them can also be respectful, but you wouldn't pray to God saying "I ask them to bless me..." My point is that a proper grammatical use of the plural you has nothing to do with the respectful use of the singular thou in our liturgy.

So, what do yu think when a person says "we love you" in prayer? What about when someone says "...and thank you for all your many blessings"?

[Thinking]

Those Book of Mormon prophets struggled with archaic English also.

 

Alma 39:10 (Alma is talking to his son Corianton)
“And I command you to take it upon you to counsel with your elder brothers in your undertakings; for behold, thou art in thy youth, and ye stand in need to be nourished by your brothers. And give heed to their counsel.”

[Five Solas]

Pity at your ignorance and willful stupidity......definitely.

Not a lot of commiseration or compassion detectable in your "pity" here, Nehor.   Just more insults and inconsistency.  Is this what winning looks like for you? 

[The Nehor]

Not a lot of commiseration or compassion detectable in your "pity" here, Nehor.

I must congratulate you. Here I was thinking my sarcasm was subtle and undetectable but no, you saw right through it. Congratulations.

[mfbukowski]

More important, where does it say in scripture that we should use special language when addressing our Heavenly Father? I have yet to find where it says such. Perhaps we should all just capitulate and they should have prayer police at chuch.

YOU started this by saying that we should NOT have a formal prayer language, and I questioned why.  I never said we should-  and now you are talking prayer police?

 

You are arguing both sides and making no sense.

[mfbukowski]

Yes indeed, but Pope Francis isn't standing the meaning on its head--making the informal into formal as Dallin H. Oaks et al. have done.  A more careful read my post (#203) might serve you well, Nehor.

 

--Erik

You have not read one thing on this thread.  What's the point??  You ask a question, do not respond, people answer you and you show no evidence of hearing any of it.  It is a total waste of time.

[Rob Osborn]

YOU started this by saying that we should NOT have a formal prayer language, and I questioned why.  I never said we should-  and now you are talking prayer police?

 

You are arguing both sides and making no sense.

Was being rather facetious. I do not think we need rules for everything including how formal or informal prayer language should be.

[Thinking]

How can we develop a personal relationship with God if we have strict rules about how to speak to Him.

[volgadon]

How can we develop a personal relationship with God if we have strict rules about how to speak to Him.

 

Why is that an insurmountable obstacle, or, indeed, an obstacle at all?

[mfbukowski]

How can we develop a personal relationship with God if we have strict rules about how to speak to Him.

How can we develop a personal relationship with God if we have strict rules about how to.....live, love, what to eat or drink, what day to attend church, how much we should contribute of our substance, what ordinances we need and how they should be performed, who and how we should obey etc.

Heck you haven't even scratched the surface. But guess what? That is exactly what we do!

[Thinking]

How can we develop a personal relationship with God if we have strict rules about how to.....live, love, what to eat or drink, what day to attend church, how much we should contribute of our substance, what ordinances we need and how they should be performed, who and how we should obey etc.

Heck you haven't even scratched the surface. But guess what? That is exactly what we do!

 

You didn't answer the question.

 

I have two children. My wife and I have strict rules about behavior and responsibility. We have never told them that they have to address us a certain way. My son calls me Dad and my daughter calls me Dad or Daddy (she's 23).

[Rob Osborn]

But who addresses their dad and says "Dad, I lovest thou"?

[Storm Rider]

You didn't answer the question.

 

I have two children. My wife and I have strict rules about behavior and responsibility. We have never told them that they have to address us a certain way. My son calls me Dad and my daughter calls me Dad or Daddy (she's 23).

 

When you allege that we have "strict rules" regarding addressing God I don't get it. You have exaggerated the teachings of the Church. Have you ever seen someone disciplined for not using this "strict" language? No, of course not. In fact, it is so strict that it goes unnoticed by the membership and leadership alike. 

 

It is more appropriate to say that we teach, we encourage members to address the God of the universe in a certain way, but it is really your personal choice to follow or not. 

[Storm Rider]

But who addresses their dad and says "Dad, I lovest thou"?

 

My children do, but I make them kneel before they begin to address me. It takes a while before I can mount the stairs to my Rameuptom and dress in fine clothing.  I just hate it when they expect me to listen to them at the drop of a hat. 

[mfbukowski]

You didn't answer the question.

 

I have two children. My wife and I have strict rules about behavior and responsibility. We have never told them that they have to address us a certain way. My son calls me Dad and my daughter calls me Dad or Daddy (she's 23).

That's nice.  Same with me.  What's your point?  If you were to meet Donald Trump would you say "Hey Don- what's happening?  Nice ta meetcha!"

 

Do you call your grandfather by his first name?  Wouldn't you have a closer relationship with him if you did?

[mfbukowski]

But who addresses their dad and says "Dad, I lovest thou"?

Do you start your prayers with "Dad"?  Why not?  Wouldn't that make you feel closer to Heavenly Father?

[Rob Osborn]

Do you start your prayers with "Dad"?  Why not?  Wouldn't that make you feel closer to Heavenly Father?

After stating the name, why must our language be different?

[mfbukowski]

After stating the name, why must our language be different?

Why state the name at all?

 

Doesn't God know what you are thinking?  We could start with "Howdy" I suppose- or "Hey God- What's happening"?

[volgadon]

Why state the name at all?

 

Doesn't God know what you are thinking?  We could start with "Howdy" I suppose- or "Hey God- What's happening"?

Or better yet, wassup.