Scriptures Against Homosexuality

[Hamba Tuhan]

I have the entire Book of Mormon, D&C, Pearl of Great Price, the words of Christ while he was actually on the earth, all the gospels written by those that actually lived when Christ was on the earth.  No prohibiting of same sex relationships.  You gotta ask, just how important to God is it?

Can anyone show me scriptures that explicitly forbid adults having sex with children, that forbid a son having sex with his father, that forbid 'torture porn' or live sex shows on stage? I'm starting to think that we followers of Christ have really been missing out on some things when obivously they just aren't that important to God. Sure, Latter-day prophets have warned us repeatedly against such behaviour, but what do they know? After all, Alfred Kinsey -- a far more successful prophet based on numbers of followers -- was in favour of all of the above.

 

You are out of the thread.

[rockpond]

OK, but the CFR related specifically to this statement of yours:

Followed by this assertion of yours:

I know you've written above that you have 'lost interest' in defending your claims, but I do think it would be interesting to see at least one of these statements you've found from the Latter-day apostles in support of same-gender 'marriage'.

There is no revelation that provides God's will regarding gay marriage. And, I provided sources for the CFR that, over time, the prophets and apostles have not spoken with one voice on the subject of homosexuality.

I have not said that I lost interest in defending my claims. If I had, I wouldn't have provided the sources and examples that I gave you in my last couple posts. I said that I was tired of arguing over cherry picked quotes as it does not seem very productive. I also never claimed that an apostle has made a statement in support of marriage equality for gays.

Edited December 7, 2013 by rockpond

[california boy]

Can anyone show me scriptures that explicitly forbid adults having sex with children, that forbid a son having sex with his father, that forbid 'torture porn' or live sex shows on stage? I'm starting to think that we followers of Christ have really been missing out on some things when obivously they just aren't that important to God. Sure, Latter-day prophets have warned us repeatedly against such behaviour, but what do they know? After all, Alfred Kinsey -- a far more successful prophet based on numbers of followers -- was in favour of all of the above.

When someone starts comparing the ban on SSM in the temple between two consenting adults with raping little children, I pretty much ignore them.  If you think Christ had nothing to say about this subject, I suggest you look up the word millstone in your concordance.

[Hamba Tuhan]

The only 'comparison', as you must surely be aware, was to the seeming silence of the scriptures on the subjects. And the 'millstone' passages are as explicit as the other passages you and others have been attempting to explain away.

[bluebell]

When someone starts comparing the ban on SSM in the temple between two consenting adults with raping little children, I pretty much ignore them.  If you think Christ had nothing to say about this subject, I suggest you look up the word millstone in your concordance.

 

He did not compare SSM with pedophiles.  

 

He compared the silence on one issue you believe God accepts with silence on other issues that you would agree He does not, to show how silence in the scriptures is not a great argument to use in favor of something being morally o.k.

 

If silence in the scriptures is a major argument you are going to use to support your conclusions, then you must be willing for people to engage it and attempt to disprove it.  

 

And there are other interpretations of the millstone scripture than the one you seem to be using, showing that that verse is not anymore 'solid' than the verses who's interpretations you have already called into question.

 

Obviously Hamba is not arguing that God's o.k. with little children being hurt (or that SSM is the same as raping a child), he's just using the criteria that you have set forth to test the validity of your argument.

Edited December 7, 2013 by bluebell

[BCSpace]

Not to say one way or the other about SSM, but from a more general standard, Paul also taught that women should be silent in the churches, but you don't see many church's that really believe that that's God will on the subject.

 

According to the Church, Paul actually didn't say that as the JST changes the text to 'rule'.

[Robert F. Smith]

One might want to consult the opinions of biblical scholars:

 

Jacob Milgrom, “Does the Bible Prohibit Homosexuality,” Bible Review, 9/6 (Dec 1993), online at http://members.bib-arch.org/publication.asp?PubID=BSBR&Volume=9&Issue=6&ArticleID=3 , which brought reader replies in BR 10/2 at http://members.bib-arch.org/search.asp?PubID=BSBR&Volume=10&Issue=02&ArticleID=01 .

 

Marcus J. Borg, “Homosexuality and the New Testament,” BR, 10/6 (Dec 1994), online at http://members.bib-arch.org/search.asp?PubID=BSBR&Volume=10&Issue=6&ArticleID=8&UserID=0& ,

[Bob Crockett]

 

One might want to consult the opinions of biblical scholars:

 

Jacob Milgrom, “Does the Bible Prohibit Homosexuality,” Bible Review, 9/6 (Dec 1993), online at http://members.bib-arch.org/publication.asp?PubID=BSBR&Volume=9&Issue=6&ArticleID=3 , which brought reader replies in BR 10/2 at http://members.bib-arch.org/search.asp?PubID=BSBR&Volume=10&Issue=02&ArticleID=01 .

 

Marcus J. Borg, “Homosexuality and the New Testament,” BR, 10/6 (Dec 1994), online at http://members.bib-arch.org/search.asp?PubID=BSBR&Volume=10&Issue=6&ArticleID=8&UserID=0& ,

 

Now why did you cite this?  I remember all this when it occurred.  Milgrom, the quintessential Biblicall liberal, convinced me that the Bible can be used to argue virtually any point.  Not that I didn't need much convincing.

[california boy]

He did not compare SSM with pedophiles.  

 

He compared the silence on one issue you believe God accepts with silence on other issues that you would agree He does not, to show how silence in the scriptures is not a great argument to use in favor of something being morally o.k.

 

If silence in the scriptures is a major argument you are going to use to support your conclusions, then you must be willing for people to engage it and attempt to disprove it.  

 

And there are other interpretations of the millstone scripture than the one you seem to be using, showing that that verse is not anymore 'solid' than the verses who's interpretations you have already called into question.

 

Obviously Hamba is not arguing that God's o.k. with little children being hurt (or that SSM is the same as raping a child), he's just using the criteria that you have set forth to test the validity of your argument.

Well actually he did compare SSM with raping children.  SSM is NOTHING like the list of illicIt sex he wanted to use as comparisons.   I think the scriptures are pretty clear that all sex outside of marriage is unlawful. 

 

I think you also might have what I am saying wrong as well.  I am not saying that homosexual sex outside of marriage would be ok with God.  That would be inconsistent with the rest of the law of chastity.  What we don't currently know is God's will concerning temple marriage for gay couples.  I am not even implying that the scriptures support such marriages.  I am simply stating that the scriptures are no help in knowing the will of God on this matter.  And so is modern day revelation.

 

As noted in one of my first posts, other than the Old Testament and a few letters written by Paul which are most likely his own opinion, God has not said anything about homosexual behavior in the entire Book of Mormon, the entire D&C the entire Pearl of Great Price and all of the modern day revelations.  If homosexual behavior is of so little distinguishable importance to God, then why can't members be open to the idea that God may reveal same sex marriage fits perfectly into the plan of salvation for His gay children.  In the mean time, the church leaders are discriminating against gay members simply based on tradition and policy.  We have learned from past experience that such reliance on tradition is not always the will of God.

 

Maybe I can break this down to a few simple questions.

 

1. Why wouldn't homosexuality within the bounds of marriage be acceptable and in line with the law of chastity?

(Yes, for the majority of God's children, men and women do fit together well.  But for God's gay children, that fit does not work.)

 

2. Why is the church leaders currently not allowing such marriages when God has not prohibited such marriages?

(There are no scriptures or revelations prohibiting such marriages)

 

3.  Why would same sex temple marriage not fit in perfectly to the plan of salvation for God's gay children?

(I know the whole spirit children thing will be brought up, but do we really know how spirit children are created? Reason alone rules out 9 month pregnancies right off the bat.  What we do know is that priesthood gods work together to create worlds without end. )

 

If the church does not think about these questions at this point of time, then what kinds of heartache and loss of souls will be endured needlessly.

[Rob Osborn]

What we don't currently know is God's will concerning temple marriage for gay couples.

Ummmm...How many times we gonna go over this? The church representing God concerning His will has repeated over and over again that homosexual marriage is an abomination in His sight. Get used to it- its Gods will

[california boy]

Ummmm...How many times we gonna go over this? The church representing God concerning His will has repeated over and over again that homosexual marriage is an abomination in His sight. Get used to it- its Gods will

See "

Challenging The First Presidency" thread.     Blacks are not going to hold the priesthood until all the other sons of Adam have a chance.  Get used to it - its Gods will.

[Rob Osborn]

See "

Challenging The First Presidency" thread.     Blacks are not going to hold the priesthood until all the other sons of Adam have a chance.  Get used to it - its Gods will.

Homosexual marriage will always be an abomination. God did not create us to stop his work and glory. Gay couples do not reproduce and thus they do not continue. everything about gay marriage is an abomination and sinful.

[rockpond]

Ummmm...How many times we gonna go over this? The church representing God concerning His will has repeated over and over again that homosexual marriage is an abomination in His sight. Get used to it- its Gods will

 

If every word that flows over the pulpit from the apostles is to be considered the will of God, we've got a LOT of dissonance to work through.

[rockpond]

Homosexual marriage will always be an abomination. God did not create us to stop his work and glory. Gay couples do not reproduce and thus they do not continue. everything about gay marriage is an abomination and sinful.

 

Everything about gay marriage is an abomination?  Wow... that statement certainly isn't just dripping with bigotry.  Loving one another is now an abomination?

 

Gay couples don't reproduce whether married or not.  So why not allow them to solemnize their commitment to care for and love one another?

[Rob Osborn]

Everything about gay marriage is an abomination?  Wow... that statement certainly isn't just dripping with bigotry.  Loving one another is now an abomination?

 

Gay couples don't reproduce whether married or not.  So why not allow them to solemnize their commitment to care for and love one another?

Abomination, abomination, abomination. Call me a bigot but realize you are calling God and his holy prophets bigots also

[rockpond]

Abomination, abomination, abomination. Call me a bigot but realize you are calling God and his holy prophets bigots also

We can dialogue if you'd like but it requires that we at least attempt to answer each others questions.

I didn't call you a bigot. Try reading my words again.

[Rob Osborn]

Im sorry if I misread. I get tired of this issue over and over again. Our prophets have continually warned against sexual immorality including homosexual marriage. I, as an adult, parent, teacher, must uphold the correct teachings. We have a duty to teach correct principles and stand against the greatest threat to the family- sexual immorality. There seems to be a growing trend in society to make immorality and make it somehow a noble and normal practice. There are some members or others close to the Church who believe that eventually these abominations will be acceptable before God and his angels. Nothing could be farther from Truth, Satan has great hold on mens hearts

[california boy]

Im sorry if I misread. I get tired of this issue over and over again. Our prophets have continually warned against sexual immorality including homosexual marriage. I, as an adult, parent, teacher, must uphold the correct teachings. We have a duty to teach correct principles and stand against the greatest threat to the family- sexual immorality. There seems to be a growing trend in society to make immorality and make it somehow a noble and normal practice. There are some members or others close to the Church who believe that eventually these abominations will be acceptable before God and his angels. Nothing could be farther from Truth, Satan has great hold on mens hearts

Explain to me again why gay marriage is the same as committing adultry, forinicating and homosexual behavior outside of marriage.   Could you point to a scripture that states that gay marriage is the same as sex outside of marriage?  Or perhaps a revelation from God?  Sorry for not being able to rely on tradition and the opinion of church leaders. I am looking for something from God on this issue.

 

You are right about sexual immorality.  It is a threat to families.  And it is a growing trend.  Less and less people are choosing not to marry.  So expain again to me why the church is encouraging gays to not marry?  Does that make them more moral?

[Calm]

So expain again to me why the church is encouraging gays to not marry?  Does that make them more moral?

 

If homosexual  behaviour in or outside of what is called gay marriage or civil union or whatever name one wants to label it with is immoral, then since moving into a long term relationship will increase the likelihood of someone engaging in same sex behaviour with their partner, that would be a valid reason for the church to encourage gays not to marry.  By being celibate, they will be more moral.

 

I don't think one can make an argument that by the church encouraging gays not to marry, it is the same thing as encouraging them to go out and engage in immoral sex.

 

Those who don't care about the need for a license to engage in sex will do so without gay marriage in place or with it in place.  Those who would more likely see gay marriage as creating a moral structure within which gay sex can exists and who would refrain from having sex outside of marriage...if there is no gay marriage available, they will more likely choose to be celibate...or at least would have in the past.  I suspect there are much smaller numbers of both homo and heterosexuals these days that see their only options as celibacy or marriage.

Edited December 8, 2013 by calmoriah