NEDRA Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) Has anyone seen this story discussed elsewhere online? Fascinating!http://www.4utah.com/story/openly-transsexual-mormon-woman-attends-priesthood/d/story/GqRleCXdFkOfQj1WWk6FjwSome women who have commented on this situation in other venues believe this is an entry point for even cis gendered females to receive the priesthood and attend priesthood meetings.The woman in this story is active LDS and does have the priesthood.Edited for typo. Edited November 5, 2013 by NEDRA
jkwilliams Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 According to the church handbook, she can't be given a temple recommend, may not be able to exercise priesthood authority, and may face church discipline.
cdowis Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I'm glad to see that the church has anticipated such situations.
jkwilliams Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 What's interesting is that the handbook always refers to "elective" transsexual surgery. I'm wondering what they would consider non-elective.
Buckeye Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 What's interesting is that the handbook always refers to "elective" transsexual surgery. I'm wondering what they would consider non-elective. Perhaps if a child has surgery because his/her parents chose it. 1
Storm Rider Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 This is a difficult situation, yet the local Church appears to be adapting to it. It would be helpful to hear from the actual local leadership.
NEDRA Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 According to Leahnora's Facebook remarks (which she has given permission to share), this is the first time she's attended priesthood meeting in five months. Her SP told the priesthood brethren (and sister!) that he was in contact with the First Presidency and had been for a while regarding her situation. The SP encouraged the men in the group to welcome Leahnora as a sister.
CV75 Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 According to Leahnora's Facebook remarks (which she has given permission to share), this is the first time she's attended priesthood meeting in five months. Her SP told the priesthood brethren (and sister!) that he was in contact with the First Presidency and had been for a while regarding her situation. The SP encouraged the men in the group to welcome Leahnora as a sister.I don't know the exact circumsatnces of her transition, but I think respectful fellowship is the best way to support her as she figures out her place in the cosmos with the help of the Light of Christ and the Gift of the Holy Ghost.
Anakin7 Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) Will this individual be able to pass a temple recomend interview by there Bishop and Stake President to be allowed into the Temple ?Also my thoughts dwell on this person taking the Sacrament to renew Baptismal covenants ?. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS JEDI KNIGHT Edited November 5, 2013 by Anakin7
jkwilliams Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I should mention that I think this is evidence of a more accepting attitude in the church. Back when I was younger, such a person would have almost certainly have faced a disciplinary council and would not have been welcomed with open arms. At least I can't imagine that happening back then.
Anakin7 Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 What Would Jesus, President Monson, one of the 12 Apostles say to this individual ?. In His Debt/GraceAnakin7LDS JEDI KNIGHT
BCSpace Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) If "she" is a father as the article states, then I think that will be the sticking point. Edited November 5, 2013 by BCSpace
BCSpace Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) 1) The children need a father and "she" volunteered by creating them; as a man. Divorcing over this issue is abandonment.2) Having sex as a man shows he is likely not really a woman. Edited November 5, 2013 by BCSpace
Jazzdreamer Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 What's interesting is that the handbook always refers to "elective" transsexual surgery. I'm wondering what they would consider non-elective.Some are also born with both parts....and so the parent has to choose which to let the kid keep.
NEDRA Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 So I guess that's the question: research is proving that there are more than two sexes. Gender and sex are also different. In her case, is the LDS Church just waiting to have gender reassignment to be complete before they decide if she's "really" female? Or does this case show that priesthood is not dependent on gender or sex?
Calm Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Since no one here is involved in the actual discussions of this case for the Church or any like it apparently, asking the above question seems pointless imo.
CV75 Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 So I guess that's the question: research is proving that there are more than two sexes. Gender and sex are also different.In her case, is the LDS Church just waiting to have gender reassignment to be complete before they decide if she's "really" female? Or does this case show that priesthood is not dependent on gender or sex?Many human societies and cultures, according to their own understanding and for their own purposes, have identified multiple sex and gender categories for differentiating observed morphology and behaviors, but these are always subsets or combinations of male and female. In nature also, we can see more than one gender in the form of variations in animal morphology, reproductive behavior or hormone concentration, but these genders are also clearly subsets of what are identified as either (or primarily) biologically male or female. Both the cultural and scientific approaches are man-made constructs to help us understand the world around us, but only according to mortal wisdom. But when we speak in eternal or spiritual terms, sex and gender refer to God’s primal design, wherein He uses male and female as the proper order in which all His creations will be restored according to their intended and ideal forms and frames. In this instance, I would think the LDS Church is waiting for more definitive information on the case (if the matter is even being treated as a “case”), and may even leave the decision in the hands of the local authorities. I don’t think that this can be used to show that priesthood is not dependent on gender or sex, since the revealed practice has been for God of His designees to confer the keys of operation upon mortal men and leave it up to these (fallible) men to confer it upon other mortal men. Being mortal and fallible, it can be mistakenly conferred upon the wrong individual, but it is the Lord’s priesthood and He will make sure everything ends up the way He sees fit. 1
BCSpace Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 So I guess that's the question: research is proving that there are more than two sexes. Gender and sex are also different. I don't believe there is any such research. But I would agree that the research does show there are aberrations.
NEDRA Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 I know people who are biologically neither male nor female. This article, though presented as an opinion piece, helps put it in perspective:http://www.nytimes.com/1993/03/12/opinion/how-many-sexes-are-there.html
CV75 Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 I know people who are biologically neither male nor female. This article, though presented as an opinion piece, helps put it in perspective:http://www.nytimes.com/1993/03/12/opinion/how-many-sexes-are-there.htmlI believe that such intersexed individuals still have an eternal gender identity that will be fully revealed and restored in the Lord's due time. How many of the vast majority of individuals, whose sex and gender attributes are clearly established, fully comprehend their true identity in terms other than sex and gender? Or physically, or especially mentally, challenged people? Or chimera? Same thing. Everyone sees through a glass darkly, so to speak, in one area or another, until the perfect day dawns upon them. In the meantime, we have great hope and solace in the new and everlasting covenant of marriage and the promises thereof if we cannot obtain it in this life. 1
JLHPROF Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 The woman in this story is active LDS and does have the priesthood. I am rarely this openly non-pc, but no and no. 1. Not really a woman2. Probably doesn't hold the priesthood any more (depending on actions taken).
EllenMaksoud Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 Has anyone seen this story discussed elsewhere online? Fascinating!http://www.4utah.com/story/openly-transsexual-mormon-woman-attends-priesthood/d/story/GqRleCXdFkOfQj1WWk6FjwSome women who have commented on this situation in other venues believe this is an entry point for even cis gendered females to receive the priesthood and attend priesthood meetings.The woman in this story is active LDS and does have the priesthood.Edited for typo.This is a very tough situation and about 40% of "US" commit suicide. This is not in the social hall, and I have been corrected ONCE about talking about myself. I am not prepared to start a thread on this and if someone did, I do not know how I could participate in it under present constraints. My thoughts on the issue would probably shock some of you, or not. Just letting you know that I am not Liah and never was Bob. I have never asked for Temple Recommend, and am surprised to be a member of the church. The best one such as I can do is to serve quietly and meekly and do not cause trouble.
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