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Perhaps I Need To Be Yelled At?


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So, I was trying to figure out what the Snow Couplet was and googled it. I must say that there seems to be some reticence in the church to discuss it. For various reasons, I feel pretty neutral about it, so it goes in a bin labeled, "things I am open to but can not be proven in court).

 

So, in my search for the Couplet, I strayed into a website called Mormon Research Ministries in Draper, Utah. Their arguments seem somewhat out there, even for a person familiar with Ev theology.

 

One of her "things" was to say that man can not be reconciled with God. Where do people get these ideas? Belief and Baptisim, and obedience takes care of that, right?

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THE ATONEMENT OF CHRIST TAKES CARE OF THAT, BELIEF IN THE ATONING GRACE AND THE FORMATION OF A COVENANT WITH CHRIST IS ESSENTIAL TO RECONCILIATION WITH GOD IN LDS THEOLOGY.

THIS LADIES BELIEFS COME FROM HER OWN INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE, AN INTERPRETATION NOT CONSISTENT WITH LDS THOUGHT. YOU ARE CORRECT.

Edited by halconero
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THE ATONEMENT OF CHRIST TAKES CARE OF THAT, BELIEF IN THE ATONING GRACE AND THE FORMATION OF A COVENANT WITH CHRIST IS ESSENTIAL TO RECONCILIATION WITH GOD IN LDS THEOLOGY.

THIS LADIES BELIEFS COME FROM HER OWN INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE, AN INTERPRETATION NOT CONSISTENT WITH LDS THOUGHT. YOU ARE CORRECT.

In fact, if you want, you can get in your car and drive to Draper Utah and yell at the lady yourself!
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It is not polite to yell, halconero...even if someone asks you to...but then it's not polite to refuse a reasonable request either....hmmm....

I agree whatever the volume....

Whoops. Caps lock got stuck again.

Seriously though Ellen, correct on all counts.

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Whoops. Caps lock got stuck again.

Seriously though Ellen, correct on all counts.

Well, I was just sure I was being sent to my room and would stay there until ... I don't know.  As far as I could tell, her views don't even match up with Ev theology, and seem somewhat, um round the bend.  :)

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So, I was trying to figure out what the Snow Couplet was and googled it. I must say that there seems to be some reticence in the church to discuss it. For various reasons, I feel pretty neutral about it, so it goes in a bin labeled, "things I am open to but can not be proven in court).

 

So, in my search for the Couplet, I strayed into a website called Mormon Research Ministries in Draper, Utah. Their arguments seem somewhat out there, even for a person familiar with Ev theology.

 

One of her "things" was to say that man can not be reconciled with God. Where do people get these ideas? Belief and Baptisim, and obedience takes care of that, right?

 

PEOPLE SAY THE DARNDEST THINGS.

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On a serious note, be careful you're not like me and get sucked up in the MRM group.  Just best to stay away if you want to stay LDS.  Good thing you have experience in the EV religion that you can see right through things.  HAVE A GREAT DAY! ;) 

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On a serious note, be careful you're not like me and get sucked up in the MRM group.  Just best to stay away if you want to stay LDS.  Good thing you have experience in the EV religion that you can see right through things.  HAVE A GREAT DAY!  ;)

Oh, I am very biased, and remember I was Ev for over 30 years, so know the theology very well. I was devout and studied a lot. I must say that the MRM group woman that contacted me ... um well I just do not know where she got her theology? It just does not wash with anything I know, and seems rather depraved to me.  I must say that my Ev theology prepared me to become LDS. I knew the Bible very well, mashallah, in comparison to some, so when people would show me a Mormon idea, it was mostly not hard to find Biblical text that backed up LDS claims; the text often coming to my mind so completely that a fast google search would reveal the references.

 

Don't be afraid or disillusioned about being LDS. I consider it to be 100% wholesome!!

Edited by EllenMaksoud
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So, I was trying to figure out what the Snow Couplet was and googled it. I must say that there seems to be some reticence in the church to discuss it. For various reasons, I feel pretty neutral about it, so it goes in a bin labeled, "things I am open to but can not be proven in court).

 

So, in my search for the Couplet, I strayed into a website called Mormon Research Ministries in Draper, Utah. Their arguments seem somewhat out there, even for a person familiar with Ev theology.

 

One of her "things" was to say that man can not be reconciled with God. Where do people get these ideas? Belief and Baptisim, and obedience takes care of that, right?

 

 

Can you actually provide the quote in context from the website?  I don't think you can link to it, but it's tough to know what they were saying with just a single paraphrase.

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Can you actually provide the quote in context from the website?  I don't think you can link to it, but it's tough to know what they were saying with just a single paraphrase.

I can copy and paste the email she sent me. Is that OK?

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I love this David guy.  If you want to skip some and go to the end, it's the best part.  David truly wants this Keith guy to pray to know the truth through the Holy Ghost.  I don't know too many Mormons that would be this humble.  Fantatstic!  At the end they pray together.  But David asks first that they kneel and pray.

Edited by Tacenda
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So, I was trying to figure out what the Snow Couplet was and googled it. I must say that there seems to be some reticence in the church to discuss it. For various reasons, I feel pretty neutral about it, so it goes in a bin labeled, "things I am open to but can not be proven in court).

 

So, in my search for the Couplet, I strayed into a website called Mormon Research Ministries in Draper, Utah. Their arguments seem somewhat out there, even for a person familiar with Ev theology.

 

One of her "things" was to say that man can not be reconciled with God. Where do people get these ideas? Belief and Baptisim, and obedience takes care of that, right?

Usually Calvinist's believe that God has chosen all whom he will save and all whom he with destroy, and that the only way to be reconciled to God is to be drawn by his grace. In short a growing number within the EV Church that there is no free will to accept or to reject Christ.
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Usually Calvinist's believe that God has chosen all whom he will save and all whom he with destroy, and that the only way to be reconciled to God is to be drawn by his grace. In short a growing number within the EV Church that there is no free will to accept or to reject Christ.

Now, THAT is out there. :(   It seems the mark of hopelessness.

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Now, THAT is out there. :sad:   It seems the mark of hopelessness.

 

Well, in a sense, we're all hopeless.  The foreknowledge of God presupposes that He knows already what we will do, and He has known it from the beginning.  We cannot fool Him, and imagine that where God has seen that we will fail, that in the end we will surprise Him and succeed after all.

 

But it is a cast iron, take-to-the-bank fact that we have free will.  Our fates, as it were, are not predestined.  In the Terminator series, John Connor sends a message to himself from the future via his father, who is from that future and sent back to conceive him and protect his mother.  The message is "There is no fate, but what we make."  This might as well be scripture, because it is quite literally true.  You are the captain of your ship, and your crew will obey you utterly.  You have your choice!  Your choices may be affected by your circumstances, but you are free to make those which come to you.

 

The apparent paradox is this, that God knows what decisions you will make, because He sees them all from the beginning to the end.  But it is not a paradox; it is as if you, at the end of your life can see what you have done.  Your post-knowledge does not affect your choices; and neither does God's foreknowledge of your choices affect those choices.

 

The Calvinists just take the foreknowledge thing to the absurd conclusion.  That's all.

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Well, in a sense, we're all hopeless.  The foreknowledge of God presupposes that He knows already what we will do, and He has known it from the beginning.  We cannot fool Him, and imagine that where God has seen that we will fail, that in the end we will surprise Him and succeed after all.

 

But it is a cast iron, take-to-the-bank fact that we have free will.  Our fates, as it were, are not predestined.  In the Terminator series, John Connor sends a message to himself from the future via his father, who is from that future and sent back to conceive him and protect his mother.  The message is "There is no fate, but what we make."  This might as well be scripture, because it is quite literally true.  You are the captain of your ship, and your crew will obey you utterly.  You have your choice!  Your choices may be affected by your circumstances, but you are free to make those which come to you.

 

The apparent paradox is this, that God knows what decisions you will make, because He sees them all from the beginning to the end.  But it is not a paradox; it is as if you, at the end of your life can see what you have done.  Your post-knowledge does not affect your choices; and neither does God's foreknowledge of your choices affect those choices.

 

The Calvinists just take the foreknowledge thing to the absurd conclusion.  That's all.

I think I am pretty convinced that basic life is about cause and effect, unless Heavenly Father decides to intervene. And then there is of course satan doing what he did in the book of Job.  So, as in my case, there was no predicting what happened, no really.  If you knew me before, you wouldl say that anything that satan did to me was likely richly deserved. Or, just perhaps I simply fell victim of satan for years.

 

I don't actually acknowledge satan, because the only one who controls him is God. I can't argue with him, and for some reason, God seems to let him persecute even the righteous.

 

So, having said that, it seems fairly clear that our lives here on earth are just not that important to God when compared to the grand scheme of things.

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