The Garden Of Eden In Jackson County, Missouri?

[Ntrw]

Before I answer the question posed at the title, I will point the reader's attention to my previous posts on the historicity of Adam and Eve(Darwin, Adam and Apsu), the Prophet Joseph Smith's opinions on geography(Joseph Smith's Earliest Opinions Regarding Book of Mormon Geography) and, most importantly, this video.

I firmly believe Adam-Michael is a historical figure and the events at Adam ondi Ahman did physically happen; God physically appeared to His people at that place. I also believe Adam-Michael will return to the earth(Sons of Michael, He Approaches). However, I don't believe that a physical Garden of Eden was located in Jackson County, Missouri; I don't believe that the events described in Genesis took place on American soil.

The Book of Genesis and Book of Moses tell us that God planted a Garden, eastward in Eden. A river flowed into the garden and it split into four heads: the Pison, Gihon, Hiddekel and Euphrates. The Pison river hasn't been positively identified but the Hiddekel is identified with the Tigres. The Tigres and Euphrates surround Mesopotamia. Gihon is the natural spring that flows into Jerusalem(2 Chronicles 32:30). So both the Bible and Pearl of Great Price both situate the Garden of Eden in the ancient Near East. 

 

The Book of Ezekiel identifies the Garden of Eden with the Holy Mountain of God: Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire(Ezekiel 28:13-14).

The holy mountain of God is none other than the temple(Joel 3:17, Ezekiel 20:40). The mountain-temple, like Eden, is where man dwelt in the presence of God(Ether 3:1-13, Isaiah 6). Ezekiel identifies the Garden of Eden with the temple and the king as an anointed cherub. Solomon was anointed king at the Gihon, one of the rivers of Eden(1 Kings 1:45). Adam was taken from the dust of the ground(Genesis 2:7). King Jehu was also exalted out of the dust(1 Kings 16:2). Adam was the primordial gardener as was Hammurabi(Genesis 2:15, Bokovoy). Like the Adam, the King was perfect in the day he was created and then fell(Ezekiel 28:15). Even the early brethren of the Church identified Adam as "first man or first king"(GAEL). The identification of the Garden of Eden as temple and the Adam as king is attested in the scriptures, as is it's ancient near eastern setting. 

The Doctrine and Covenants describes a concluding episode of Adam's life, not found in the Bible: Three years previous to the death of Adam, he called Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, and Methuselah, who were all high priests, with the residue of his posterity who were righteous, into the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman, and there bestowed upon them his last blessing. And the Lord appeared unto them, and they rose up and blessed Adam, and called him Michael, the prince, the archangel(Doctrine and Covenants 107: 53-54).

In the Doctrine and Covenants, Spring Hill is named by the Lord Adam-ondi-Ahman, because, said he, it is the place where Adam shall come to visit his people, or the Ancient of Days shall sit, as spoken of by Daniel the prophet(Doctrine and Covenants 116:1). Spring Hill is now named Adam ondi Ahman because of what has yet to happen there, because Adam-Michael will visit his people there, in the future. Spring Hill is not named Adam ondi Ahman because it is the place where Adam-Michael introduced his posterity to the Lord, in ancient times. Spring Hill is not far from Jackson(Google Maps); therefore because of it's naming in revelation, the Garden of Eden is assumed, by the earliest Mormons, to be nearby.

We see a similar thing happening with the Hill Cumorah. The Hill Cumorah is the site of the final Nephite battle. However, the location of that final battle is not the same site as where Joseph discovered the gold plates(Roper,Hamblin, Clarke). The hill the plates were hidden in was not the Nephite Cumorah but has since borne it's name. Both sites called Cumorah are connected to Moroni; both sites called Adam ondi Ahman are connected with Adam-Michael.

Why Specifically Jackson County, Missouri?
Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball and others said that Joseph Smith identified Jackson County, Missouri as the location for a historical Garden of Eden(Ensign). I believe them and I believe that is probably what Joseph actually believed. Genesis, Book of Moses and archaeology point to the Garden of Eden being the Jerusalem temple. The identification of a physical Eden with Jackson County, Missouri is not factual but it is true in an allegorical sense. The Garden of Eden is the temple and the temple is to be built in Jackson County, Missouri(Doctrine and Covenants 84). Through this identification, the Prophet Joseph Smith connected two things most people never knew were one.

[Robert F. Smith]

Before I answer the question posed at the title, I will point the reader's attention to my previous posts on the historicity of Adam and Eve(Darwin, Adam and Apsu), the Prophet Joseph Smith's opinions on geography(Joseph Smith's Earliest Opinions Regarding Book of Mormon Geography) and, most importantly, this video.

I firmly believe Adam-Michael is a historical figure and the events at Adam ondi Ahman did physically happen; God physically appeared to His people at that place. I also believe Adam-Michael will return to the earth(Sons of Michael, He Approaches). However, I don't believe that a physical Garden of Eden was located in Jackson County, Missouri; I don't believe that the events described in Genesis took place on American soil.

The Book of Genesis and Book of Moses tell us that God planted a Garden, eastward in Eden. A river flowed into the garden and it split into four heads: the Pison, Gihon, Hiddekel and Euphrates. The Pison river hasn't been positively identified but the Hiddekel is identified with the Tigres. The Tigres and Euphrates surround Mesopotamia. Gihon is the natural spring that flows into Jerusalem(2 Chronicles 32:30). So both the Bible and Pearl of Great Price both situate the Garden of Eden in the ancient Near East. 

 

The Book of Ezekiel identifies the Garden of Eden with the Holy Mountain of God: Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire(Ezekiel 28:13-14).

The holy mountain of God is none other than the temple(Joel 3:17, Ezekiel 20:40). The mountain-temple, like Eden, is where man dwelt in the presence of God(Ether 3:1-13, Isaiah 6). Ezekiel identifies the Garden of Eden with the temple and the king as an anointed cherub. Solomon was anointed king at the Gihon, one of the rivers of Eden(1 Kings 1:45). Adam was taken from the dust of the ground(Genesis 2:7). King Jehu was also exalted out of the dust(1 Kings 16:2). Adam was the primordial gardener as was Hammurabi(Genesis 2:15, Bokovoy). Like the Adam, the King was perfect in the day he was created and then fell(Ezekiel 28:15). Even the early brethren of the Church identified Adam as "first man or first king"(GAEL). The identification of the Garden of Eden as temple and the Adam as king is attested in the scriptures, as is it's ancient near eastern setting. 

The Doctrine and Covenants describes a concluding episode of Adam's life, not found in the Bible: Three years previous to the death of Adam, he called Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, and Methuselah, who were all high priests, with the residue of his posterity who were righteous, into the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman, and there bestowed upon them his last blessing. And the Lord appeared unto them, and they rose up and blessed Adam, and called him Michael, the prince, the archangel(Doctrine and Covenants 107: 53-54).

In the Doctrine and Covenants, Spring Hill is named by the Lord Adam-ondi-Ahman, because, said he, it is the place where Adam shall come to visit his people, or the Ancient of Days shall sit, as spoken of by Daniel the prophet(Doctrine and Covenants 116:1). Spring Hill is now named Adam ondi Ahman because of what has yet to happen there, because Adam-Michael will visit his people there, in the future. Spring Hill is not named Adam ondi Ahman because it is the place where Adam-Michael introduced his posterity to the Lord, in ancient times. Spring Hill is not far from Jackson(Google Maps); therefore because of it's naming in revelation, the Garden of Eden is assumed, by the earliest Mormons, to be nearby.

We see a similar thing happening with the Hill Cumorah. The Hill Cumorah is the site of the final Nephite battle. However, the location of that final battle is not the same site as where Joseph discovered the gold plates(Roper,Hamblin, Clarke). The hill the plates were hidden in was not the Nephite Cumorah but has since borne it's name. Both sites called Cumorah are connected to Moroni; both sites called Adam ondi Ahman are connected with Adam-Michael.

Why Specifically Jackson County, Missouri?

Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball and others said that Joseph Smith identified Jackson County, Missouri as the location for a historical Garden of Eden(Ensign). I believe them and I believe that is probably what Joseph actually believed. Genesis, Book of Moses and archaeology point to the Garden of Eden being the Jerusalem temple. The identification of a physical Eden with Jackson County, Missouri is not factual but it is true in an allegorical sense. The Garden of Eden is the temple and the temple is to be built in Jackson County, Missouri(Doctrine and Covenants 84). Through this identification, the Prophet Joseph Smith connected two things most people never knew were one.

I cannot agree, Ntrw, though every temple is a Garden of Eden template, and although Lawrence Stager does discuss the place of Jerusalem in such Garden of Eden symbology.   He is  speaking in archetypal terms. The problem ultimately is that your arguments are circular, depending upon the naming of the rivers in Genesis 2:11-14.   Many biblical scholars consider those names intrusive and late,^[1] and you will note that they are not to be found in the Book of Abraham.  They also interfere with the poetic structure (chiastic).  Moreover, in light of modern philological and geographic knowledge, the four named rivers in pairs are separated by vast distances, and cannot have coelesced in some past eon.

 

In other traditions, these four (sometimes two) special rivers are given other names, and they are frequently connected with, and flow from the four cardinal directions, from the World-Tree on the World-Mountain, the dwelling place of God (like Olympus or Ṣafon).  This cosmic mountain is the location of the Divine Council and banquet of salvation^[2] – although S. D. Sperling has maintained this concept is late and originates with the 9^th century B.C. Assyrian royal pleasure garden,^[3] thus ignoring the Eden motifs in the wall painting from the 1700 B.C. palace of Zimri Lim at Mari.^[4]  Howard Wallace adds:

 

. . . the rivers of Gen 2:10-14 need not form an interconnected system but could be simply independent, traditional, or famous waterways which in the writer’s cosmology are fed from the source that rises in the dwelling place of God.^[5]

 

There is, in any case, no reason whatever to accept the evidence from two Egyptian and two Mesopotamian rivers as normative simply because a biblical gloss lists them.  The "mouth" and "head" of any river can be understood in similar ways in ancient terms.  And, oddly enough, the late David Noel Freedman moved the discussion of such rivers to North America:

 

. . . the Mississippi River in our country drains a vast basin from north to  south, being fed by tributary rivers on both sides, e.g., the Ohio, itself the product of a vast tributary system flowing into the Mississippi from the East, while the mighty Missouri joins the Mississippi from the West.  If we try to impose a real picture on the imagined one in the book of Genesis, we might come out in the following fashion: It may be that the flow of the biblical rivers from one source into many streams will be reversed and they will flow back into the main stream from which they came.^[6]

 

Indeed, one is hard put to find a better location for Eden and its four rivers than the Great Plains of North America (cf. Sumerian EDIN “Plain”) perhaps with the Yellowstone, Missouri, Little Missouri, and Platte Rivers.  The "Garden" itself is placed on the East side of this fertile "plain" or Eden (according to Genesis 2:8, Abraham 5:, thus suggesting the appropriateness of Jackson County, Missouri, as the original site.  Adam-ondi-Ahman is also not so far from the Garden: D&C 117:8 speaks of the mountains of Adam-ondi-Ahman and the plains of Olaha Shinehah, or the land where Adam dwelt – as though he actually lived there and was not simply passing through on a world tour.  So also does it not stretch the imagination to find Noah preparing for the Deluge in the Carolinas.^[7]  M. Cowley wrote that A. Smoot and A. Ripley claimed that, while surveying land at Adam-ondi-Ahman (about 72 miles north of Jackson County), Joseph Smith visited them and "said that the Garden of Eden was located in Jackson County, Missouri."^[8]

 

^[1] Walsh, JBL, 96:169-177.

^[2] E. T. Mullen, Jr., The Assembly of the Gods, Harvard Semitic Monograph 24 (Scholars Press, 1980), 150-158; R. J. Clifford, The Cosmic Mountain in Canaan and in the OT (1972); B. Margulis, "Weltbaum and Weltberg in Ugaritic Literature," ZAW, 86 (1974):1-23; Albright, Yahweh and the Gods of Canaan (1968), 95-96; G. de Santillana & H. von Dechend, Hamlet's Mill, 111,188-191, 195, 223-227, 232-234, 447-448, etc.

^[3] Sperling, Original Torah (1998), 38.

^[4]R. N. Holzapfel, D. M. Pike, and D. R. Seely, Jehovah and the World of the Old Testament (SLC: Deseret Book, 2009), 24.

^[5] Wallace, “Eden, Garden of,” in Freedman, ed., ABD, II:283.

^[6] Freedman, “Introduction: The Rivers of Paradise,” in Freedman & M. J. McClymond, eds., The Rivers of Paradise (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2001), 9; E. A. Speiser, “The Rivers of Paradise,” in Festschrift Johannes Friedrich, 473-485.

^[7] So Oliver B. Huntington in Juvenile Instructor, (15 Nov 1895), 700-701, as cited by Tanner & Tanner, Changing World of Mormonism, 23; cf. LDS “Bible Dictionary,” 659-660.

^[8] Cowley, Wilford Woodruff, 545-546, cited in BYU Studies, 13:566; cf. the Woodruff Journals for possible mention; cf. TPJS, 126, for Joseph's statement that Adam offered sacrifice in Adam-ondi-Ahman after being cast out of the Garden – this best makes sense in light of Phelps in Evening & Morning Star, I/11 (April 1833), quoting Moses 5:1-16, the Lord speaking to Adam from the Garden!  What is the distance there?

 

 

[Darren10]

Since I'm no expert on this subject I'll keep my response simple and let the smart folks here dialogue it out.

We do not know exactly where the original site of the Garden of Eden is. While not an important or foundational doctrine, Joseph Smith established a settlement in Daviess County, Missouri, and taught that the Garden of Eden was somewhere in that area. Like knowing the precise number of animals on Noah’s ark, knowing the precise location of the Garden of Eden is far less important to one’s salvation than believing in the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Garden_of_Eden_in_Missouri

[Calm]

I tried a couple of your links, ntrw, they didn't work.

[CV75]

The identification of a physical Eden with Jackson County, Missouri is not factual but it is true in an allegorical sense.

While I find great value and truth in allegories, can you explain how it is that God reveals a figurative representation to a prophet that incorrectly believes it to be literal, and that the literal interpretation is to be based on the names of things (like rivers) that change and are even lost over time?

 

Even with the New Testament parables, the disciples were told they were parables and to find the hidden truths, and they were also given the more factual explanation of the mysteries. Which of these are you saying Joseph Smith did not benefit from?

[Damien the Leper]

Does the LDS church still believe Jackson Co. to be Eden? Or is it more a traditional myth?

[thesometimesaint]

Does the LDS church still believe Jackson Co. to be Eden? Or is it more a traditional myth?

 

Wherever it was it isn't there now.

[Ntrw]

That post was problematic. Deleted.

[Calm]

Wherever it was it isn't there now.

 

[ALarson]

The church does own property there (Adam-Ondi-Ahman) for a future temple to be built.  Here's a link for info regarding this:

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/adamondiahman/

(note that this is not an official church website)

 

Here's what is stated::

 

"Location:  Spring Hill, Missouri, United States.

 

Site Dedication:  October 1838 by Brigham Young

Temple Locale

The beautiful site of Adam-ondi-Ahman lies at a bend in the Grand River in northern Missouri, about 70 miles north of Kansas City. On the highest elevation of Spring Hill, 124 feet above Grand River, a temple block was dedicated. No cornerstones were laid or temple constructed, however, as just days later, the Saints were ordered to leave the settlement. The Church has since acquired the site and much of the surrounding area, which is leased to local farmers.

Temple Facts

The Adam-ondi-Ahman Temple was the third temple planned but never constructed by the early Saints in Missouri.

The name Adam-ondi-Ahman is an English rendition of a phrase from the pure Adamic language, which could possibly mean "Adam in the presence of God."

The valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman was revealed to Joseph Smith to be the place where Adam blessed his posterity after being driven from the Garden of Eden.

The first settlers of Adam-ondi-Ahman arrived in February 1838. By November 1838, the Saints had been delivered an ultimatum to leave Daviess County within 10 days.

On June 11, 1838, Joseph Smith gave Spring Hill the name of Adam-ondi-Ahman.

Some evidence suggests that a public square—not a temple block—was dedicated in October 1838 at Adam-ondi-Ahman.

Adam-ondi-Ahman is the site of a future grand council where Jesus Christ will meet with His stewards of all dispensations and receive back the keys of the kingdom in preparation for His Second Coming. Only those called to the meeting will know of its occurrence."

[ALarson]

Here is what Wilford Woodruff recorded in his diary regarding this:

 

   "Again Presdet Young said Joseph the Prophet told me that the garden of Eden was in Jackson Co Missouri, & when Adam was driven out of the garden of Eden He went about 40 miles to the Place which we Named Adam Ondi Ahman, & there built an Altar of Stone & offered Sacrifize. That Altar remains to this day. I saw it as Adam left it as did many others, & through all the revolutions of the world that Altar had not been disturbed. Joseph also said that when the City of Enoch fled & was translated it was whare the gulf of Mexico now is. It left that gulf a body of water."

[Damien the Leper]

So long as Community of Christ and the Church of Christ, TL own their portions of the lot designated by JS, the LDS church will never build a temple in that specific area. The closest they have come is the KC temple and that is not even close. As it is now, no one seems to be close to fulfilling "prophecy".

[strappinglad]

For most of my life the Iron Curtain and the Berlin Wall were assumed to be permanent fixtures in Europe. Funny how time can make the impossible into the improbable and from thence into the 'well,I'll be darned'.

[David T]

I think the identification of the site has far more to do with Joseph's growing understanding of the purpose of Temples. Keep in mind that in the next Temple built, Nauvoo, events occurred within as if it was Eden. Same with all temples today. All garden rooms with murals today are painted to represent local flora and fauna. All temples include the site of Adam's altar. Perhaps Joseph had an open vision of the Temple as Eden in Missouri. Very helpful in theological and ritual development, not so much with the determining of the literal geography of an ancient archetypal story.

Edited August 18, 2013 by David T

[daz2]

The current official position:

Do Mormons believe that the Garden of Eden is in Missouri?

We do not know exactly where the original site of the Garden of Eden is. While not an important or foundational doctrine, Joseph Smith established a settlement in Daviess County, Missouri, and taught that the Garden of Eden was somewhere in that area. Like knowing the precise number of animals on Noah’s ark, knowing the precise location of the Garden of Eden is far less important to one’s salvation than believing in the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C14''>http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C14'>http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C14

[Rivers]

If the the entire earth was in an edenic state before the fall of Adam, then the Garden of Eden was in Jackson County Missouri as well as everywhere else.

[MDalby]

What do we know about the location of the Garden of Eden?

We must remember that the whole earth was paradisiacal before the Fall. The Garden of Eden was a center place. After the Fall, there was no Garden of Eden or paradisiacal status on earth. Yet relative to the locale of the site of the Garden of Eden, the Prophet Joseph Smith learned through revelation (D&C 57) that Jackson County was the location of a Zion to be and the New Jerusalem to come. The Prophet first visited Jackson County, Missouri, in the summer of 1831. The Prophet visited Jackson County again in April and May 1832. On one of the occasions, or perhaps both, the Prophet Joseph apparently instructed his close associates, and perhaps even a general Church gathering, that the ancient Garden of Eden was also located in Jackson County.

 

Brigham Young stated, “Joseph the Prophet told me that the garden of Eden was in Jackson [County] Missouri.” (Journal of Wilford Woodruff, vol. 5, 15 Mar. 1857, Archives Division, Church Historical Dept., Salt Lake City.) Heber C. Kimball said: “From the Lord, Joseph learned that Adam had dwelt on the land of America, and that the Garden of Eden was located where Jackson County now is.” (Andrew Jenson, Historical Record, 9 vols., Salt Lake City: Andrew Jenson, 1888, 7:439; see also Orson F. Whitney, Life of Heber C. Kimball, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1967, p. 219.) Other early leaders have given the same information.

 

Unfortunately, we do not have primary source documentation for all of Joseph Smith’s revelations or doctrinally related declarations. This is especially true for the periods when he did not have a scribe to keep a record of his daily activities. His 1831 and 1832 trips to Missouri fit into this category.

 

One of the early Latter-day Saint residents of Jackson County was Emily Austin. Remembering her first year there, she reminisced, “Our homes in this new country presented a prosperous appearance—almost equal to Paradise itself—and our peace and happiness, we flattered ourselves, were not in a great degree deficient to that of our first parents in the garden of Eden.” (Mormonism; or, Life among the Mormons, New York:AMS Press, 1971, p. 67.) She was reflecting a commonly held belief among the Saints that Eden was in Jackson County.

 

It wasn’t until May 1838 that revelation (D&C 116) identified Adam-ondi-Ahman, a site near the Garden of Eden, to be in Daviess County, Missouri, some seventy miles from present-day Kansas City. (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 4 vols., New York City: Macmillan, 1992, 1:19–20.) Other revelations referring to Adam-ondi-Ahman were D&C 78:15–16 and D&C 107:53–57.

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “In accord with the revelations given to the Prophet Joseph Smith, we teach that the Garden of Eden was on the American continent located where the City of Zion, or the New Jerusalem, will be built. When Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden, they eventually dwelt at a place called Adam-ondi-Ahman, situated in what is now Daviess County, Missouri. … We are committed to the fact that Adam dwelt on [the] American continent.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., comp. Bruce R. McConkie, Salt Lake City:Bookcraft, 1956, 3:74. Compare Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957–75, 2:93–95, 4:19–24; and Alvin R. Dyer, in Conference Report, Oct. 1968, pp. 108–9.)

(Bruce A. Van Orden, associate professor of Church history, Brigham Young University, I have a Question, Ensign, Jan 1994)

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1994/01/i-have-a-question?lang=eng

Edited August 18, 2013 by MDalby

[Calm]

If the the entire earth was in an edenic state before the fall of Adam, then the Garden of Eden was in Jackson County Missouri as well as everywhere else.

Then how were they able to leave it and go out in the lone and dreary world leaving behind them the angel guarding the way back to the tree of life?

 

For behold, after the Lord God sent our first parents forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground, from whence they were taken—yea, he drew out the man, and he placed at the east end of the garden of Eden, cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the tree of life—

 

Edited August 18, 2013 by calmoriah

[Rivers]

The garden of Eden in Missouri creates a huge problem for believers in a local flood. Noah's flood explains how the Old Testament story moves from America to the Middle East. A local flood wouldn't take the ark over the Atlantic.

[MDalby]

"…according to the words of the Prophet Joseph, mankind in that age continued to emigrate eastwardly until they reached the country on or near the Atlantic coast; and that in or near Carolina Noah built his remarkable ship, in which he, his family, and all kinds of animals lived a few days over one year without coming out of it." (Oliver B. Huntington, The Juvenile Instructor (November 15, 1895, pp. 700-701) 

 

"The place or country where Noah's ark was built was designated in my hearing by the Prophet Joseph Smith as being in or near South Carolina." (Oliver B. Huntington journal excerpt in Hyrum L. Andrus and Helen Mae Andrus, comps., They Knew the Prophet [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1974], 65.) 

 

George Laub's journal

Wilford Woodruff Journal, June 20, 1869

Wilford Woodruff Journal, March 30, 1873

[Calm]

The garden of Eden in Missouri creates a huge problem for believers in a local flood. Noah's flood explains how the Old Testament story moves from America to the Middle East. A local flood wouldn't take the ark over the Atlantic.

My memory says that the idea is the flood gets them out to the Gulf of Mexico via the Mississippi and from there the currents take them to the Middle East.

 

add-on:  Or one could just do the Noah in the Carolinas theory.  A good hurricane could flood the area quite well.

Edited August 18, 2013 by calmoriah

[Robert F. Smith]

I think the identification of the site has far more to do with Joseph's growing understanding of the purpose of Temples. Keep in mind that in the next Temple built, Nauvoo, events occurred within as if it was Eden. Same with all temples today. All garden rooms with murals today are painted to represent local flora and fauna. All temples include the site of Adam's altar. Perhaps Joseph had an open vision of the Temple as Eden in Missouri. Very helpful in theological and ritual development, not so much with the determining of the literal geography of an ancient archetypal story.

So you say, David.

Any evidence to back that up?  You ought to visit Independence sometime and trot around town and ask why the LDS Church has been buying so much property near the Temple Lot, as well as in other parts of Missouri.  Are the Brethren so ethereal and archetypal in their thinking that, like some early Jewish Zionists, they don't really believe that geographical place has any literal importance?  Sounds like you've hitched your wagon to a classic bubba-meise.

[Ntrw]

The OP was problematic, so I took it down. Thanks Robert F. Smith.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

The odd things is known rivers are mentioned, yet no one knows where it is. Based on the rivers mentioned one would guess, Iraq...Bagdad area. However following the great flood as with many cultures it is not unusual to name places after those pervious known to former inhabitants. This is done when people come from other countries and know they are in a new place, but having founded the new area name it after "home". Noah knew of no other place, so not too unbelievable he would name places after those he already knew. But what is lacking is any scriptural evidence of the sure location of Eden...but if JS was correct, "...eastern in Eden" would be Georgia direction. Since this is where I am from...could be, everything grows spontaneously here!

[David T]

So you say, David.

Any evidence to back that up? 

 

Which part?

"the next Temple built, Nauvoo, events occurred within as if it was Eden. Same with all temples today." - do you require evidence for this? 

"All garden rooms with murals today are painted to represent local flora and fauna."  - do you require evidence for this?

"All temples include the site of Adam's altar." - do you require evidence for this?

 

"Perhaps Joseph had an open vision of the Temple as Eden in Missouri. Very helpful in theological and ritual development, not so much with the determining of the literal geography of an ancient archetypal story." - or is this interpretive conclusion what you are looking for evidence for?

 

 

You ought to visit Independence sometime and trot around town and ask why the LDS Church has been buying so much property near the Temple Lot, as well as in other parts of Missouri.

 

The Church is in the habit of buying up any available land that has historical interest to the Church. England, missouri, new york, vermont, etc.

 

 

 Are the Brethren so ethereal and archetypal in their thinking that, like some early Jewish Zionists, they don't really believe that geographical place has any literal importance?

 

Historical sites have great importance to a community. While it is a bit harder to purchase site in the Biblical Holy Land now a days (although we did get a nice spot for the BYU Jerusalem Center!) , the Church has done the next best thing, and has aquired sacred sites from its modern history for Latter-day Pilgrims and interested parties to visit. Visiting sites makes one a part of the history, and invigorates the sacred stories and text. A key reason why it was religously significant for the early saints to visualize themselves walking where Adam, Enoch, and the Nephites had dwelt. They were  the children of Adam, the new Enochs seeking to re-build Zion, and the heirs to the Nephite legacy. The Temple condenses that  Sacred Space, and has now distributed it across the world. More members than ever can now see themselves in Eden.

 

At the end of his life, Joseph was beginning to re-define Zion - which had previously been geographically solely identified with Independence, the putative Eden, and the related planned Temple - the three were generally united in thought. First, the separation began as the concept of Zion was expanded to all of North and South America, with the new Nauvoo Temple then built to be the new centerpoint around which members were to be oriented and gather. Missouri Zion was no longer to be the centerplace - the Nauvoo Temple was.

 

 

 

Prest. J. Smith said he must give up the subject of yesterday. Made a proclamation.—I have another great and grand Revelation—great discussion where Zion is.—The whole America is Zion that is the Zion where the Mountain of the Lords house shall be. about the central part of N. & South America.— soon as the Temple is finished.—Lord hath ordained where these last & most important ordinances must be in a house.—provided for the purpose.—when we can get a house built first there is the place.—Bap. washed. anointed, sealed &c for the dead the same as for themselves.— from henceforth the elders shall build churches where ever the people receive the gospel sufficient. then build stakes to this place. I verily believe that God will establish this place for the salvation of the dead.—those who want to save their dead can come hither. those who do not wish to come hither to live can bring their families and attend the ordinances and return. - 8 April 1844, from Joseph Smith Diary, kept by Willard Richards. ( Cook, Lyndon W. (2009-09-03). The Words of Joseph Smith (Kindle Locations 6613-6618). Deseret Book Company. Kindle Edition.

 

 

Later prophets further expanded Zion to be the entire world, wherever members are gathered. And instead of being gathered around Temples, Temples are now being brought to the people. Eden is being brought to everyone.

 

 

Sounds like you've hitched your wagon to a classic bubba-meise.

 

Really? I find it interesting that the individual who is insisting that Biblical tale of the Garden of Eden not only literally occurred, but occurred on the American Continent, in Missouri,  is accusing me of latching onto an old wive's tale. Come on now.

Edited August 18, 2013 by David T