The Garden Of Eden In Jackson County, Missouri?

[David T]

Another example is the story of the Handcart Rescue in one of the recent Gospel Doctrine manuals. Since it was published, Church Historians have shown (and published in BYU resources) how the story had gotten so historically mangled. They are very, very, very tactful in how they approach it, especially since the inaccurate account has been cited, verbatim, by Presidents Faust, Hinckley, and Monson. And yet, the current manual still has the story, which also presents false history, and even a statement that can lead easily to a false doctrinal conclusion.

 

Here's a great post (from 2009!) that approaches the problem, and faithful responses to it, as well as links to those BYU papers by faithful members that show how a previously published manual has something as a major teaching illustration that has been proven to be incorrect.

 

I guarantee that the next Doctrine and Covenants Church History Gospel Doctrine lesson manual will not feature this story as it is currently presented.

Edited August 20, 2013 by David T

[ZelphtheGreat]

If Joseph Smith said it, why do so many refuse to believe it?

 

Seems they pick and choose rather than have faith in the Prophet.

[David T]

If Joseph Smith said it, why do so many refuse to believe it?

Seems they pick and choose rather than have faith in the Prophet.

Oh please.

[ZelphtheGreat]

Oh please.

O, please what Davey? You don't believe what Joseph taught? A lot of that going around in The Church these days, isn't there?

[thesometimesaint]

Have you stopped beating your spouse? A simple yes of no will suffice.

 

The Saints have never been under any obligation to believe everything that JS, or anyone else for that matter, has said. We are under the obligation to think it out in our own minds, and then ask God.

Edited August 26, 2013 by thesometimesaint

[BCSpace]

The valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman was revealed to Joseph Smith to be the place where Adam blessed his posterity after being driven from the Garden of Eden.

 

Aren't these events separated by some 900 years?  D&C 107:53 shows that the blessing occurred 3 years before Adam's death.  A lot of moving and wandering can happen in 900 years.  The scriptures do not seem to show then that the Garden was in Missouri.  It could just as easily have been in the Middle East or some other local.

[ZelphtheGreat]

Pres Alvin R. Dyer told those of us attending a mission conference in the 1960's during his visit that the Garden of Eden was there, in Missouri. The Elders and Sisters in the mission were told this a number of times and so many young impressionable kids fresh from the Deserts of Utah sure could believe it with the contrast of all the green and humidity compared to their homes.

 

Just find it interesting so few on these type of boards take issue with so much Joseph Smith taught.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Pres Alvin R. Dyer told those of us attending a mission conference in the 1960's during his visit that the Garden of Eden was there, in Missouri. The Elders and Sisters in the mission were told this a number of times and so many young impressionable kids fresh from the Deserts of Utah sure could believe it with the contrast of all the green and humidity compared to their homes.

 

Just find it interesting so few on these type of boards take issue with so much Joseph Smith taught.

What I take issue is is your name for this board. Please tell me you are here, a full believing member, that is going to show the light to the rest of us rubes? Time will tell very shortly what your true intentions are.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Oh please.

I happen to concur.

[ZelphtheGreat]

What I take issue is is your name for this board. Please tell me you are here, a full believing member, that is going to show the light to the rest of us rubes? Time will tell very shortly what your true intentions are.

You don't like the name? Why not?

If it were Mahonri, would that be better?

 

As for "full believing"..., I have never met one. All have areas they think the Brethren are full of horse manure. One seat of earrings for women. Jesus a polygamist. Joseph with a magic peepstone. Bishops asking sexual questions of kids in enclosed and private settings without parents present.

 

Why don't you ask the Holy Ghost as he tells the truth of All Things. Or, don't you really believe that as so many members really don't.

[Robert F. Smith]

David T, on 17 Aug 2013 - 9:17 PM, said:

I think the identification of the site has far more to do with Joseph's growing understanding of the purpose of Temples. Keep in mind that in the next Temple built, Nauvoo, events occurred within as if it was Eden. Same with all temples today. All garden rooms with murals today are painted to represent local flora and fauna. All temples include the site of Adam's altar. Perhaps Joseph had an open vision of the Temple as Eden in Missouri. Very helpful in theological and ritual development, not so much with the determining of the literal geography of an ancient archetypal story.

Robert F. Smith replied:

So you say, David.

Any evidence to back that up?  You ought to visit Independence sometime and trot around town and ask why the LDS Church has been buying so much property near the Temple Lot, as well as in other parts of Missouri.  Are the Brethren so ethereal and archetypal in their thinking that, like some early Jewish Zionists, they don't really believe that geographical place has any literal importance?  Sounds like you've hitched your wagon to a classic bubba-meise.

Which part?

.......................................  

 

The Church is in the habit of buying up any available land that has historical interest to the Church. England, missouri, new york, vermont, etc.

 

Historical sites have great importance to a community. While it is a bit harder to purchase site in the Biblical Holy Land now a days (although we did get a nice spot for the BYU Jerusalem Center!) , the Church has done the next best thing, and has aquired sacred sites from its modern history for Latter-day Pilgrims and interested parties to visit. Visiting sites makes one a part of the history, and invigorates the sacred stories and text. A key reason why it was religously significant for the early saints to visualize themselves walking where Adam, Enoch, and the Nephites had dwelt. They were  the children of Adam, the new Enochs seeking to re-build Zion, and the heirs to the Nephite legacy. The Temple condenses that  Sacred Space, and has now distributed it across the world. More members than ever can now see themselves in Eden.

 

At the end of his life, Joseph was beginning to re-define Zion - which had previously been geographically solely identified with Independence, the putative Eden, and the related planned Temple - the three were generally united in thought. First, the separation began as the concept of Zion was expanded to all of North and South America, with the new Nauvoo Temple then built to be the new centerpoint around which members were to be oriented and gather. Missouri Zion was no longer to be the centerplace - the Nauvoo Temple was.

 

Later prophets further expanded Zion to be the entire world, wherever members are gathered. And instead of being gathered around Temples, Temples are now being brought to the people. Eden is being brought to everyone.

 

Really? I find it interesting that the individual who is insisting that Biblical tale of the Garden of Eden not only literally occurred, but occurred on the American Continent, in Missouri,  is accusing me of latching onto an old wive's tale. Come on now.

Your arguments are so wishy washy that I am surprised that you make them with any degree of seriousness, unless you belong to the Community of Christ -- they certainly would not allow any historically significant geography to influence their jettisoning of the Restoration.

 

As to the last of your wild suppositions, at no point did I ever make the silly remark that the Genesis Garden of Eden story occurred literally.  LDS General Authorities have repeatedly told us that the story is figurative and symbolic.  That does not mean that there are not very specific places on Earth where significant and holy events have taken place -- including a temple drama in Jackson County, Missouri.  That dramatic ritual presentation continues to take place, both live and on screen.  It consists of a series of ordinances which will continue until the end of time.  And every performance is as authentic as the last.