See You At The FAIR Conference!

[Scott Lloyd]

Well, if you get a chance to read the text of my presentation I would very much appreciate your feedback.

Be happy to do that. I'll check the FAIR site for it.

[Scott Lloyd]

BTW, while Hancock's talk does not appear to be posted on the FAIR website yet, some good quotes from it can be found here: http://goodgazette.blogspot.com.

The link doesn't work for me.

[Calm]

The link doesn't work for me.

Try removing the period at the end.

[Scott Lloyd]

Try removing the period at the end.

That worked. Thanks.

[Scott Lloyd]

As I am reviewing some of the FAIR Conference presentations, I will be posting here some noteworthy quotations (ones I particularly like) as I run across them.

Here's one from Ronald O. Barney:

When it comes to the serious study of the Prophet's life we can no longer assume that reliance upon sincere testimony will be enough to allay the aggressive charges against the Prophet and his work, because they [critics] are using, or, as I contend, misusing the Church's own documentary record.

Edited to add:

On second thought, I think I will start a separate thread for this. Watch for it.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[Calm]

Apparently the videos are up now for streaming, though the roku setup---whatever that is---is still being worked on.

If the audio is low for you, it is apparently not your ears, someone has already complained so I assume they will work on it.

[Atomic Punk]

I enjoyed the conference. It's the fourth time in a row I've attended with my brother. I guess I'm a bit too introverted to introduce myself but I recognized several names on nametags. I didn't have a problem with Ralph Handcock's talk. I thought he had an interesting perspective. But to each his own. I did hang around in the back corner by the auction tables after the conference. Looking forward to next year's conference.

[DBMormon]

Anybody find it on Roku? I looked and didn't find it.

[Calm]

There has been no announcement yet about Roku being up that I can see. When I see it, I will post it, but as we went out to eat and I am feeling very comfy, I may fall asleep so if he puts it up tonight, you might see it before I do. Just keep an eye of the "live streaming" thread (if you aren't a FairMormon member, don't feel bad that you don't know what I am talking about and just ignore anything save the part about announcing it here).

[juliann]

Bradley, Payne, and Welch transcripts are now up. http://www.fairlds.org/fair-conferences/2013-fair-conference

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I could not because of my back, I would have been there just to meet Seth Payne.

[Scott Lloyd]

Well, if you get a chance to read the text of my presentation I would very much appreciate your feedback.

Seth, I have just noticed your text has been posted at the FAIR site.

While I've only had opportunity to glance through it, I can say that it strikes me as thoughtful, insightful, temperate, well-written, persuasive, and, all-in-all, very well done. Though I intend to digest it more thoroughly, I will say already that it rates a bravo.

I said I would be happy to give feedback, but I'm hesitant to do it more specifically in public. The reason for that is, I notice on the Mormon Discussions board, there is a thread devoted to your presentation. I fully expect that anything I say about it will be seized upon there as an excuse to vilify me, the Church of Jesus Christ, Dr. Peterson, "old-guard apologetics" (whatever that is supposed to mean) in general, or whomever. In short, I don't want to give them any such excuse.

Thus, I wonder if you would be open to my offering more specific comment by private and confidential email, after I have had time and opportunity to explore your paper more thoroughly. If that's not feasible, I will understand and simply offer my congratulations to you on your paper.

[sethpayne]

Seth, I have just noticed your text has been posted at the FAIR site.

While I've only had opportunity to glance through it, I can say that it strikes me as thoughtful, insightful, temperate, well-written, persuasive, and, all-in-all, very well done. Though I intend to digest it more thoroughly, I will say already that it rates a bravo.

I said I would be happy to give feedback, but I'm hesitant to do it more specifically in public. The reason for that is, I notice on the Mormon Discussions board, there is a thread devoted to your presentation. I fully expect that anything I say about it will be seized upon there as an excuse to vilify me, the Church of Jesus Christ, Dr. Peterson, "old-guard apologetics" (whatever that is supposed to mean) in general, or whomever. In short, I don't want to give them any such excuse.

Thus, I wonder if you would be open to my offering more specific comment by private and confidential email, after I have had time and opportunity to explore your paper more thoroughly. If that's not feasible, I will understand and simply offer my congratulations to you on your paper.

Scott,

Thank you for the kind words. I would welcome any thoughts/feedback on the paper that you would like to keep private. PM me or you can email me at this address: sethpayne@gmail.com

Seth

[sethpayne]

I could not because of my back, I would have been there just to meet Seth Payne.

Pa Pa,

I need to get my rear-end down to Georgia to see you one of these days. I should be traveling more for work over the next year so I'm sure I'll be in your neck of the woods at some point!

Seth

[Tacenda]

I would like to know how someone can listen to this year's Fair conference. I remember reading that there is a fee to listen. Are they up yet? I looked for them on the Fair website but couldn't find them.

[DBMormon]

Some are up Tacenda, more coming -

http://www.fairlds.org/fair-conferences/2013-fair-conference

[Tacenda]

Some are up Tacenda, more coming -

http://www.fairlds.org/fair-conferences/2013-fair-conference

Oh, I saw this. But would prefer to listen to a podcast.

[Calm]

The podcasts take longer. You can still do the live streaming at $25 for the entire conference. Unless I haven't been paying close enough attention, this is probably the cheapest way to go but wont last forever. Most of the presentations I would want to read for details anyway, if it was me, I'd do the streaming and then buy the podcasts of the few that work best as audio.

Edited August 10, 2013 by calmoriah

[European Saint]

Calmoriah, How does one listen to the FAIR President's remarks that were made just before the Seth Payne introduction?

[Calm]

I will see if they got edited out or not, FairMormon has a standard disclaimer about all presentations be solely the responsibility of the presenters. Nothing was new in what was said.

My memory says they were right after the Thurston talk so if they weren't edited out, they would be there.

[Tacenda]

http://www.fairlds.org/fair-conferences/2013-fair-conference/2013-why-mormonism-matters-pastoral-apologetics-and-the-lds-doubter

I really appreciated this article by Seth Payne. And the doubters on NOM do too. I've been at this doubting business for far too long.

I think the church sees the problem and is trying to help us, but it's probably taking a while for some of the members to get the full picture.

Oh, and kudos to Fair for having the subject discussed. When something is discussed openly, instead of festering, it gets healed.

[DBMormon]

amen Tacenda. When these are all uploaded, please refer to the opening talk by Mike Ash and the last Panel on rekindling of faith, these both go right in line with Seth Payne's presentation

[mfbukowski]

Scott,

Thank you for the kind words. I would welcome any thoughts/feedback on the paper that you would like to keep private. PM me or you can email me at this address: sethpayne@gmail.com

Seth

Great stuff Seth, and you know I LOVED the James references!

[mfbukowski]

amen Tacenda. When these are all uploaded, please refer to the opening talk by Mike Ash and the last Panel on rekindling of faith, these both go right in line with Seth Payne's presentation

Love this all- that's a direction I have been pushing for years.

[Wiki Wonka]

Three more presentations are now online: Mike Ash, Ronald Barney and Mark Alan Wright:

Michael R. Ash, Shaken Faith Syndrome, Part Deux

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Ron Barney, Joseph Smith’s Visions: His Style and his Record

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Don Bradley, The Original Context of the First Vision Narrative: 1820s or 1830s

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Ralph Hancock, Mormonism and the New Liberalism: the Inescapability of Political Apologetics

Maxine Hanks, Working With the Church: Another Narrative

Robert Kirby, Why It is Important to Laugh at Ourselves

Seth Payne, Why Mormonism Matters: Pastoral Apologetics and the LDS Doubter

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Dan Peterson, Toward a More Effective Apologetics

Morris Thurston, “Kidnapping” at Palestine Grove: Missouri’s Final Attempt to Extradite Joseph Smith

Rosalynde Welch, Disenchanted Mormonism

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Lynne Wilson, Was Joseph a Product of the Second Great Awakening

Mark Alan Wright, Heartland as Hinterland: The Mesoamerican Core and North American Periphery of Book of Mormon Geography

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Maxine Hanks, Valerie Hudson, Neylan McBain, Wendy Ulrich, Charity Never Faileth: Seeking Sisterhood Amid Different Perspectives on Mormon Feminism

Don Bradley, Janet L. Eyring, Maxine Hanks, Bill Reel, The Loss and Rekindling of Faith