Stone holm Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 Phooey on other people!Good for you.It's just one of those tests we have to get through where we have issues with members of the ward. We can allow them to drive us out of the church, or just say Phooey on you, and just keep moving along.CFR on "phooey"....just kidding.
EllenMaksoud Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 As a convert, I cannot tell you how this dragged my soul down this summer.I originally came here out west to see what LDS society was like up close and personal. Back home there are only 200 of us, and most of us want to be there. But most religions out east that are the majority have plenty of people that just show up for Christmas and Easter. I wanted to see the LDS version of the same. So here I am in Provo. Mind you, I am not doing this to "look for trouble" but to really just see it and assess it.I could go on about the differences from Rexburg to BYU and UVU students and attitudes, but lets just say I have met guys out here that came back from missions that truly dont take the gospel seriously and get involved with all the stuff that normal college kids do. Now this isn't about judging them because...well...that what younger people do.My problem is that they came back from missions not too long ago. Now say what you want that "Satan is now tempting them" or whatever, but I think it goes deeper than that. I think they didn't believe it in the first place or certainly not that strongly.Since I was already feeling down on faith here int he church, can you see how this didn't help me at all?It's not that I blame the kids really. Who would go on a mission for two years to promote something they did not believe in unless is was expected of them. I went through and knew a dozen of missionaries before I was baptized. Although I do not expect any of them to be perfect. I would feel betrayed if they told me something they did not believe themselves. That makes sense.Out of the 58,000 missionaries out there right now, I shudder to think how many are not really believing this and telling others to follow it.My suggestion would be to build your own faith during your struggles and allow others the freedom to struggle, also. I have met Missionaries who needed encouragement and teaching more than me, I thought. The circumstances of my becoming an Investigator were just too powerful and not to be ignored. The membership, have the burden of supporting the Missionaries emotionally and materially, and I think that during their missions there is an anointing in effect that gives them authority.Please have faith. There are things happening in the LDS church that you will not find elsewhere. 1
cinepro Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 Please have faith. There are things happening in the LDS church that you will not find elsewhere.Roadshows?
Duncan Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 Roadshows?seriously. We are having a BYUI group come up North to the heat and we have to billet. Americans. can you imagine having one of them in your house?!
Kenngo1969 Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 seriously. We are having a BYUI group come up North to the heat and we have to billet. Americans. can you imagine having one of them in your house?! seriously. We are having a BYUI group come up North to the heat and we have to billet. Americans. can you imagine having one of them in your house?!Oh, I know! You might have to perform a purifying ritual afterward, or something! 1
Kenngo1969 Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 I'm in the process of painting my house exterior... The contractor happens to be LDS (I didn't call him because of that) and employs a couple of young men from Church who do my lawn (he has multi-service group). So I asked the painter if he was LDS as he had said he was new from Montana... he replied "used to be." And that he has been inactive for a number of years mainly because of all the hypocrites he sees in the Church... He's been trying different wards, and even other Christian churches. Naturally I encouraged him to attend my terrific ward... terrific, but not perfect... and told him Phooey on other people!... and much of the same conversation expressed above. Maybe younger people are more sensitive to this type of thing... but being the old woman I am, I just say Phooey and continue to strive to live the gospel faithfully. Yes, I'm disappointed that there are those that don't live up to their potential within the Church... but not so much that it affects my own attendance, faith or testimony. I hope this young man will seek out our ward... he's a good person, and a conscientious worker.I once got a terrific job offer from the Acme Judgment Company ... Great pay, terrific benefits, the perfect work situation, and so on, but, alas, I had to turn it down because I didn't feel I was qualified! I'm too busy tryin' to keep them pesky weeds outta my own garden, wouldn't ya know it?!
Duncan Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) Oh, I know! You might have to perform a purifying ritual afterward, or something! i'll wear one of those yellow suits like they had it ET! Edited July 11, 2013 by Duncan
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 As a convert, I cannot tell you how this dragged my soul down this summer.I originally came here out west to see what LDS society was like up close and personal. Back home there are only 200 of us, and most of us want to be there. But most religions out east that are the majority have plenty of people that just show up for Christmas and Easter. I wanted to see the LDS version of the same. So here I am in Provo. Mind you, I am not doing this to "look for trouble" but to really just see it and assess it.I could go on about the differences from Rexburg to BYU and UVU students and attitudes, but lets just say I have met guys out here that came back from missions that truly dont take the gospel seriously and get involved with all the stuff that normal college kids do. Now this isn't about judging them because...well...that what younger people do. My problem is that they came back from missions not too long ago. Now say what you want that "Satan is now tempting them" or whatever, but I think it goes deeper than that. I think they didn't believe it in the first place or certainly not that strongly. Since I was already feeling down on faith here int he church, can you see how this didn't help me at all?It's not that I blame the kids really. Who would go on a mission for two years to promote something they did not believe in unless is was expected of them. I went through and knew a dozen of missionaries before I was baptized. Although I do not expect any of them to be perfect. I would feel betrayed if they told me something they did not believe themselves. That makes sense.Out of the 58,000 missionaries out there right now, I shudder to think how many are not really believing this and telling others to follow it.I want to extend a point, if we ate looking left are right to our fellow beings, instead of looking to Christ. We spend our lives thinking, I am not as good for him or her...looking the other we think, I am not as good as them. One leads to pride, the other to vanity. Looking at Christ, we might think "I can never measure up". But we are told..."Come unto Christ and be perfected in him", then someday we will be, even as him, for..."we will be like him, for we shall see him as he is".
Stone holm Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 i'll wear one of those yellow suits like they had it ET!Just don't try to talk politics or economics with them or you may have to sign up for therapy afterwards .
thatjimguy Posted July 13, 2013 Author Posted July 13, 2013 Folks I do appreciate the comments about how I should not look to others about righteousness, and perhaps I muddled the waters talking about my personal problems this summer with people. However, what I am really getting at is about the feeling of how many missionaries are not really in ti for the right reasons. I do not feel comfortable with the idea that it is alright to suggest that someone go out on a mission without believing in what they are promoting. Regardless of if the item is good, I think that still makes the person promoting it a bold-faced liar. That system does not belong in something named God church.
Stone holm Posted July 13, 2013 Posted July 13, 2013 Folks I do appreciate the comments about how I should not look to others about righteousness, and perhaps I muddled the waters talking about my personal problems this summer with people. However, what I am really getting at is about the feeling of how many missionaries are not really in ti for the right reasons. I do not feel comfortable with the idea that it is alright to suggest that someone go out on a mission without believing in what they are promoting. Regardless of if the item is good, I think that still makes the person promoting it a bold-faced liar. That system does not belong in something named God church.You mean they aren't in it to learn how to dress properly for a business career? Oh my.
LordUther Posted July 13, 2013 Posted July 13, 2013 Folks I do appreciate the comments about how I should not look to others about righteousness, and perhaps I muddled the waters talking about my personal problems this summer with people. However, what I am really getting at is about the feeling of how many missionaries are not really in ti for the right reasons. I do not feel comfortable with the idea that it is alright to suggest that someone go out on a mission without believing in what they are promoting. Regardless of if the item is good, I think that still makes the person promoting it a bold-faced liar. That system does not belong in something named God church."Judge not lest ye be judged" You have no idea why they went unless they have told you. You also have to remember that what you as a convert view with awe & wonder is everyday to those brought up in the church or in Utah. It's kind of like if I went & visited the Queen at Buckingham Palace I would be in awe of the place, the beautiful old furniture. I would watch where I step & try not to touch anything, whereas Princes William & Harry might go running down the corridor, jump on the beds, & kick back putting their feet up. I might look at them & think "oh my gosh can't they treat this place with more respect?", but to them it's granny's house. Both of us love the place but we come at it from different angles. Familiarity might breed what looks like a complacent attitude, but no-one but God can judge their motives. 1
Stone holm Posted July 14, 2013 Posted July 14, 2013 "Judge not lest ye be judged" You have no idea why they went unless they have told you. You also have to remember that what you as a convert view with awe & wonder is everyday to those brought up in the church or in Utah. It's kind of like if I went & visited the Queen at Buckingham Palace I would be in awe of the place, the beautiful old furniture. I would watch where I step & try not to touch anything, whereas Princes William & Harry might go running down the corridor, jump on the beds, & kick back putting their feet up. I might look at them & think "oh my gosh can't they treat this place with more respect?", but to them it's granny's house. Both of us love the place but we come at it from different angles. Familiarity might breed what looks like a complacent attitude, but no-one but God can judge their motives.Is it necessarily wrong to serve a mission out of duty to family as opposed to having a testimony, so that your parents won't feel ilke and be treated like failures?
LordUther Posted July 16, 2013 Posted July 16, 2013 Is it necessarily wrong to serve a mission out of duty to family as opposed to having a testimony, so that your parents won't feel ilke and be treated like failures?I would never tell anyone they went on a mission for the wrong reasons, I think that's between them and Heavenly Father. Tbh I don't think there is a 'wrong' reason. There was a guy in the ward I grew up in that never gave talks in church, always refused all leadership positions, just used to come to church with his family do his bit & go home again. He was a friendly guy & everyone liked him but obviously his behaviour raised peoples eyebrows. He sent in his application to serve a mission, was called and went. He was home again within a couple of months. It turned out he had a severe phobia about public speaking & dealing with large groups of people. He could deal with small social situations but street contacting & tracting, going into strangers homes etc proved too much for him and sent him over the edge, he was honourably released. I feel those couple of months were his widows mite, he gave all he could. He hadn't told anyone about his phobia & maybe if he had he would've been sent on a service mission somewhere instead, but he didn't & it is what it is. It may very well be that he went due to the 'pressure' to serve or it maybe he went out of a desire to serve, but either way he gave it his all and I believe his service was accepted by the Lord. 1
Storm Rider Posted July 16, 2013 Posted July 16, 2013 It is interesting what pressures are brought on each of us as we grow up and even as adults. It is folly to stand on the sidelines and demand that the only acceptable motivations for an action meet a very specific, unquantifiable measure. It is also folly to declare the "only" reason I did something was "X". Each is a complex individual with a host of influences and seldom, if ever, is there is a single reason we do something. If you are not able to live by the standard you demand of all others, then your standard is meaningless and false. It is a construct of hypocrisy. Let us each strive to do our best and if something motivates us to do a good thing, let us do the good thing, and press on to greater things and make our eye single to the glory of God. 2
cdowis Posted July 16, 2013 Posted July 16, 2013 Of course it goes back to the concept of good, better, best.If one has a testimony of the gospel (good), of course it is appropriate to develop one's testimony on a mission (better). But if the testimony is totally lacking, the prospective missionary could not truthfully pass even the temple recommend process.
Tacenda Posted July 16, 2013 Posted July 16, 2013 A mission is a right of passage for LDS young men, and if they don't go on it, passage isn't always granted in the LDS life, without it and life gets murky and unsettled and sometimes doors are closed automatically. The mission is a key to unlock the future LDS life for a young man. Without it they might break the chain. Yep, this is what happens, for it's happening for my son who chose not to go. In his mind he has broken the chain and now the world view he had before is open for interpretation, and I'm just hoping he makes choices now that will lead to the same supposed happiness.
Stone holm Posted July 16, 2013 Posted July 16, 2013 A mission is a right of passage for LDS young men, and if they don't go on it, passage isn't always granted in the LDS life, without it and life gets murky and unsettled and sometimes doors are closed automatically. The mission is a key to unlock the future LDS life for a young man. Without it they might break the chain. Yep, this is what happens, for it's happening for my son who chose not to go. In his mind he has broken the chain and now the world view he had before is open for interpretation, and I'm just hoping he makes choices now that will lead to the same supposed happiness.It can, but does not have to -- marrying outside the Church is more likely to break the chain than not going on a mission -- course in some areas of the country, not going on a mission is likely to reduce the chances of marrying in the Church. But of the two marrying inside the Church is the more important.
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