canard78 Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Reading that tweet again it seems like she had some kind of souring experience.Ah yes of course. People leave the church because they're offended/lazy/want to sin. I must remember to ignore Elder Uchtdorf's Oct 2013 talk. Maybe it just wasn't a very fulfilling experience. Maybe she found a more uplifting way of using her Sundays and week nights. Maybe she found a different way of approaching God. 1
canard78 Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 John Dehlin must have filled in some missing information for her, and I'm being serious. It really is a phenomenon going on in the church. And then again she may have no clue what Mormonstories is, but I doubt it. But still think the Missionaries probably have to teach a little differently now. Make converts aware of the meat in the gospel and our turbulent history leading up to what the current religion is, and emphasize that it is ever changing since we believe in current revelation. But there could be so many variables for sure. Btw, the BoM play is supposedly not too anti and shows a great side to Mormonism, at least I heard it has it's positives, never seen the play myself. Funnily enough the latest Mormonstories has John interviewing Clark Johnson one of the members of the cast in the BoM musical. He talks about himself as a gay Mormon who fulfilled a mission. The directors learned a lot from him by him showing and discussing his mission.Very unlikely. Mormon Stories has a reported listener base of 20,000. That's 0.1% of Mormons. An average of less than one person per ward. Maybe a handful per stake. The Mormon Stories Facebook group has 6,000 members. 0.04% of the membership (and, by it's tone, many of those 6,000 are probably not on the church membership anyway so it's likely even lower reach among active Mormons).Dehlin is a big fish in a very small pond. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Ah yes of course. People leave the church because they're offended/lazy/want to sin. I must remember to ignore Elder Uchtdorf's Oct 2013 talk.Maybe it just wasn't a very fulfilling experience. Maybe she found a more uplifting way of using her Sundays and week nights. Maybe she found a different way of approaching God.With due respect, I think you're reading a whole bunch of stuff into Ham Clam's post that isn't there. A "sour experience" could just as easily largely be the fault of one or more of the Latter-day Saints as it could anyone else. 1
Tacenda Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Canard78 and Boanerges, unable to use the quote function now so this comment is in regards to both your posts. Not downing JD, just have read several posts through the years on places like NOM, that after watching Mormon Stories they started questioning. I often wonder what could have been if I hadn't stumbled onto the video put out by John called "Why People Leave the Mormon Church". Would I have held it together longer, I don't know. But your both right, it's a big world out there. Edited January 23, 2015 by Tacenda
Boanerges Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Canard78 and Boanerges, unable to use the quote function now so this comment is in regards to both your posts. Not downing JD, just have read several posts through the years on places like NOM, that after watching Mormon Stories they started questioning. I often wonder what could have been if I hadn't stumbled onto the video put out by John called "Why People Leave the Mormon Church". Would I have held it together longer, I don't know. But your both right, it's a big world out there. In my own experience John Dehlin was neither part of my faith crisis nor my faith transition. I never heard of him until after I had transitioned and I have never listened to a Mormon Stories podcast. I do also participate in other forums, which is where I first heard of him, and I do recognize that many on those other forums (specifically NOM and StayLDS) credit Dehlin with them staying. I suppose those who left wouldn't be there to credit him and I don't do ex-mo forums so my view is admittedly skewed. Before Kate Kelley made the news with her excommunication nobody in my ward (that I talked to about it) had heard of her, and I would wager the same is true of Dehlin - and his publicity has been less pervasive in national media than hers was. I agree with Canard, he's a small fish in his own homemade pond. I know some of those people on NOM and StayLDS, and I'm glad he was part of their transitions. He's essentially just another guy to me. Likewise, as has been pointed out here, the shelf life of the average new member where I live seems to be less than a year, and only a couple months for many. of them. I did a quick glance at the ward directory in LDS Tools and I found one active guy who I can remember who was baptized longer than a year but less than 5 years ago.- his wife had been a member for many years and he was finally baptized. The activity rate in my ward is about 35%, and there are people on that list that have been there the whole 25 years I have lived here and I have never met them. I understand the activity rate in Utah is higher than it is here in the east, but ours is much higher than where my son serves in South America where the rate is closer to 10%. 2
Freedom Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 I don't think her motives were questionable at all. I think that her conversion was simply rather shallow, I suppose shallow conversions make people go off the deep end. That sounded funnier when I said it in my head. 1
Avatar4321 Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 We should keep praying for her to return. and showing love. 3
Ham Clam Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 With due respect, I think you're reading a whole bunch of stuff into Ham Clam's post that isn't there. A "sour experience" could just as easily largely be the fault of one or more of the Latter-day Saints as it could anyone else.That's exactly want I meant. 1
Teancum Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 Ah yes of course. People leave the church because they're offended/lazy/want to sin. I must remember to ignore Elder Uchtdorf's Oct 2013 talk. Yea you should ignore it because most people here do as well. Or they want to interpret it in light of their own agenda. Course I likely do the same. I just admit it. Others don't.
Scott Lloyd Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Yea you should ignore it because most people here do as well. Or they want to interpret it in light of their own agenda. Course I likely do the same. I just admit it. Others don't. And you still haven't explained your reasoning in concluding that President Uchtdorf would be urging priesthood leaders to abdicate their duties as judges in Israel, when he, as a member of the First Presidency is a judge in Israel himself and as such participates in the disciplinary process by performing such tasks as approving restoration of blessings, adjudicating appeals of disciplinary council rulings, etc. That's something your so-called "face-value" reading apparently didn't tell you. In fairness to you, the other thread may have been closed before you had opportunity to explain yourself there, but there's no reason you can't do so here and now. By way of reminder, Smac said, I don't think President Uchtdorf was proposing that local leaders should abdicate their responsibilities as judges in Israel and let apostasy run rampant and unchecked in the Church. I think to suggest or imply otherwise is to wrest his words.You replied: I just take him his words at face value.A couple of us suggested that taking something at "face value" is not necessarily conducive to full or even accurate understanding. That set you off into protracted fussing which, apparently, you have yet to let go of. Edited January 26, 2015 by Scott Lloyd
maxrep12 Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) A girl joins the church and gets picked up in a media whirlwind (which I'm sure the church PR team were delighted by).The girl then does what many converts do and leaves within 2 years and now people here want to question her motives in the first place. Bleurgh. Get over it. The reality is that many (most, in my experience) converts join for genuine reasons and then leave for genuine reasons. It's rarely politics or history or doctrinal conflict. It just doesn't fit any more and they move on.It should be pointed out, though quite obvious, that most converts can be expected to make a quick exit simply because they are not encumbered by familial and community ties to the church. There is a thread currently running about the necessity of a five generation Mormon immersion to create good Mormons. The truth lies in that multi generational Mormons will be surrounded by LDS family members, from grandparents, to cousins, to inlaws. Their social ties within their community will likely have many Mormons. Generational members, in no way, have an unencumbered option to leave the church as the convert does. Generally for converts, and likely in this gal's case, exiting is a real option. Speculating on a "shallow" testimony, or whatever other reason, is a simple avoidance of the fact that she had a no strings attached exit, and thus took it. Nobody should be surprised in the least. Edited January 25, 2015 by maxrep12
Scott Lloyd Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 To maxrep12: Your continued quotation of me in your sig line without having obtained my prior permission is a blatant violation of board rules. I've tolerated it this long, but I'm serving notice on you now you don't have my permission. You can take it down voluntarily or wait for me to report you to the moderating team. Your choice.
maxrep12 Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 To maxrep12:Your continued quotation of me in your sig line without having obtained my prior permission is a blatant violation of board rules. I've tolerated it this long, but I'm serving notice on you now you don't have my permission.You can take it down voluntarily or wait for me to report you to the moderating team. Your choice.I was not aware of the rule when I quoted you in my sig line. A simple personal message about your disapproval would have sufficed...
Scott Lloyd Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 I was not aware of the rule when I quoted you in my sig line. A simple personal message about your disapproval would have sufficed...You're right. I should have approached you privately first.
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