We Need Mormon Theologians?

[gtaggart]

Joanna Brooks is concerned about women and the priesthood. She recently thought out loud:

It is daunting to look at the faith that you love and witness the accumulation of 183 years of non-systematic doctrinal accumulation. By which I mean that one of the downsides of not having a professional clergy is that Mormonism does not recognize a systematic, coherent theology. Yes, people. In this, I envy Catholics and Jews and other faiths who make space for professional theologians and scholars of theology trained in the discipline. I want a Mormon

Jaroslav Pelikan

. I want Mormon Jesuits. I really do.

She then added:

The problems come when we mistake human impulses and dispositions for Godly intentions and assume that what seems familiar and right to us is in fact essentially reflective of reality.

For example, we now hear a great deal of talk in connection with priesthood about gender complementarity–the idea that the spiritual work of mothering is the intended complement to priesthood offices. This idea is spoken as if it is gospel truth–self-evident.

But is there one scrap of evidence in A) canonized scripture B) canonized revelation C) the words of Jesus Christ or D) the words of Joseph Smith that supports the notion that motherhood is a spiritual office that is the complement of priesthood?

That last paragraph is missing something. Can you guess what it is?

Edited April 24, 2013 by gtaggart

[CASteinman]

That last paragraph is missing something. Can you guess what it is?

I would think "theology" but why don't you just say it? I hate this "go find a rock" type of assignment.

[Calm]

That last paragraph is missing something. Can you guess what it is?

yep, that jumped out at me too.

CA, she mentions Joseph Smith...but there have been a lot of prophets since him. If we are supposed to study his words that are not canonized scripture or revelation, why not other prophets?

Edited April 24, 2013 by calmoriah

[CASteinman]

CA, she mentions Joseph Smith...but there have been a lot of prophets since him. If we are supposed to study his words that are not canonized scripture or revelation, why not other prophets?

Oh, good point.

I am not a fan of JB.

[Rivers]

I would consider a Terryl Givens a mormon theologian. Or are we talking about people with actual degrees in theology?

Edited April 25, 2013 by Rivers

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

If we ever have a professional Clergy, our days will be numbered as God's true Church. Christ set the example of the type of men he wanted to lead his Church in his day and ours.

[Glenn101]

It seems that thereare a lot of people disatisfied with the way God has organized His church.

Glenn

[CASteinman]

one of the downsides of not having a professional clergy is that Mormonism does not recognize a systematic, coherent theology. Yes, people. In this, I envy Catholics and Jews and other faiths who make space for professional theologians and scholars of theology trained in the discipline. I want a Mormon Jaroslav Pelikan. I want Mormon Jesuits. I really do.

We have trained theologians. Some of them are Apostles. She just doesn't like HOW those PARTICULAR men have been trained.

We also have a pretty consistent theology. She just doesn't like what it is and so she wants to root around and change it.

In essence she is generating nonsensical statements as a justification for her desire that we be "like all the other nations" and have a paid professional cohort of divines who may pronounce God inscrutable and who will be subject to the popular will -- or will allow the insinuations of people like herself into their deliberations.

She wants power.

[Avatar4321]

Shouldn't we all be Mormon theologians? We are asked to study the scriptures daily and to pray to seek communion with the Lord and learn what He has to teach us. Is he teaching us non-theology?

She wants power

That may be so. But shouldn't we all be seeking power from the hands of the Lord? Instead, alot of us have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. The powers of heaven are inseperately connected with righteousness.

[CASteinman]

Shouldn't we all be Mormon theologians? We are asked to study the scriptures daily and to pray to seek communion with the Lord and learn what He has to teach us. Is he teaching us non-theology?

That won't do. You aren't a proper theologian.

[Avatar4321]

That won't do. You aren't a proper theologian.

Why? Because I didn't get my credentials from a University?

[CASteinman]

Why? Because I didn't get my credentials from a University?

Also you aren't paid, preferably by the popular appeal of your doctrines.

[Avatar4321]

Also you aren't paid, preferably by the popular appeal of your doctrines.

No one would ever pay me. Im too blunt

[mfbukowski]

We are too concerned with the "philosophies of men" when what we live and breathe are cultural assumptions which indeed ARE the "philosophies of men"

We speak of "truth" when indeed what most people in the West- including Mormons- think of as truth is a notion invented largely by pagan Greek philosophers. It's naive to think we can escape the "philosophies of men" when they are part of the air we breathe.

Is it better to be able to see around these blinders or should we keep them on?

If we don't address contemporary philosophy, in a few years we will be indistinguishable from the Amish. Some may want that- but I want the gospel to be the rock cut without hands that rolls through the earth. Perhaps some want to remain a quaint old-fashioned religious group that eschews intellectual reality, but that is not the path to go in my opinion.

We have nothing to fear, in fact those on the outside who actually understand the power of Mormonism marvel at how provincial we are for not understanding our own strengths.

This is a New York Times article written by a non- Mormon philosopher describing an interaction he had with a young James Faulconer:

Things went pretty well. But right at the end of the final lecture, something peculiar happened. A member of the audience asked me a question. He said, “What you have been telling us this week about romanticism and the death of God where religion becomes art is premised on a certain understanding of God, namely that God is unitary and infinite. Would you agree?” “Sure,” I said, “At least two of the predicates of the divinity are that he/she/it is unitary and infinite.” Gosh, I was smart back then. “But what if,” he went on, “God were plural and finite?”

Concealing my slight shock, I simply said “Pray, tell.” Everyone in the room laughed, somewhat knowingly. And with that the chairman closed the session. I went straight up to my questioner and pleaded, “Tell me more.” Thirty minutes later, over a caffeine-free Diet Coke in the university cafeteria, he explained what lay behind his question....

.....Like Bloom, I see Joseph Smith’s apostasy as strong poetry, a gloriously presumptive and delusional creation from the same climate as Whitman, if not enjoying quite the same air quality. Perhaps Mormonism is not so far from romanticism after all. To claim that it is simply Christian is to fail to grasp its theological, poetic and political audacity. It is much more than mere Christianity. Why are Mormons so keen to conceal their pearl of the greatest price? Why is no one really talking about this? In the context of you-know-who’s presidential bid, people appear to be endlessly talking about Mormonism, but its true theological challenge is entirely absent from the discussion.

http://opinionator.b...dit_ty_20120917

Bolding added

Do we need theologians? Of course- why would we even ask? What are you afraid of?

Edited April 25, 2013 by mfbukowski

[Lightbearer]

Who needs a theologian when you have Prophets, Seers, and Revelators?

What would be their purpose? Second guessing the revelations of God?

Were not the scribes and pharasees theologians? Look how they treated prophets, seers and revelators...

[Avatar4321]

Do we need theologians? Of course- why would we even ask? What are you afraid of?

Perhaps I should ask, how are we defining theologians?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Who needs a theologian when you have Prophets, Seers, and Revelators?

What would be their purpose? Second guessing the revelations of God?

Were not the scribes and pharasees theologians? Look how they treated prophets, seers and revelators...

Amen x's 10

[Avatar4321]

Who needs a theologian when you have Prophets, Seers, and Revelators?

What would be their purpose? Second guessing the revelations of God?

Were not the scribes and pharasees theologians? Look how they treated prophets, seers and revelators...

As far as Im concerned, the theologians in our Church are the Prophets, Seers, and Revelators. Not to mention any other saint who studies the Gospel and recieves revelation from our Creator.

[ERayR]

It seems that thereare a lot of people disatisfied with the way God has organized His church.

Glenn

Perhaps they could start their own then they could organized the way they want.

[ERayR]

Why? Because I didn't get my credentials from a University?

I did!

Oh never mind you meant religious credentials. Carry on.

[Avatar4321]

I did!

Oh never mind you meant religious credentials. Carry on.

Yes I meant religious credentials. I'd be lying otherwise since I do have credentials from a couple universities, not sure that they are worth anything though lol

[juliann]

If we don't address contemporary philosophy, in a few years we will be indistinguishable from the Amish. Some may want that- but I want the gospel to be the rock cut without hands that rolls through the earth. Perhaps some want to remain a quaint old-fashioned religious group that eschews intellectual reality, but that is not the path to go in my opinion.

Well said. It is like saying what do we need plumbers for? We have carpenters!

[Calm]

I think theologians would be helpful not to create doctrine or even to interpret it for church members...though just like any other member who has a unique experience and thus perception of scripture and doctrine and faith, theologians could provide their own unique POV to help us look at our own faith in new ways, but I see their main role as providing another line of communication with nonmembers to help create a shared language to discuss our faith with them so they can come to understand the depth of it and thus not dismiss it so easily.

[Avatar4321]

So how are we defining theologian?

[Calm]

So how are we defining theologian?

I am defining it as someone who has made a study of religion.