Conspiracy Theories And Secret Combinations

[Deborah]

The conspiracy theories are already flying about the Boston bombings. People still believe that 9/11 was planned by the government. My question is why do some people, probably some here, believe so easily in a world wide conspiracy where the government (no matter who's in charge) is responsible for such horrendous acts rather than accepting the conspiracy is amongst individuals who hate and wish only to destroy. The reason I ask is I have family members who believe the government is behind it whenever something like this happens, and they are otherwise very practical.

Now I do believe the government can be careless, inefficient and sometimes just plain stupid but I don't give them credit for being able to plot such nefarious deeds and keep them "secret." Indeed the very fact that "everyone" knows about the conspiracy shows that they aren't true secret combinations. There is a fine line here between politics and discussion of governments in general and I would like a discussion without any political party or liberal or conservative being said. The conspiracy theorists cover all sides.

There are many non-LDS conspiracists but the ones who are LDS tend to link these things to the secret combinations of the BOM . However, 2 Nephi 26:22 tells us “And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever.” I don't doubt we have such groups today but it seems to me their goal is to get gain and not to become martyrs for a cause. I also believe that there isn't just one world-wide conspiracy but cabals of people whose goal is to get gain, but these cabals are unrelated except they are led by Satan, and they will use any such awful events to their own purpose.

I would be interested to hear anyone who believes as to why they do and what evidence they have for such things, without making political statements because such evils are beyond politics.

[Duncan]

I think people don't want to believe that these two scum sucking lowlifes were responsible, they have to be part of something bigger. Just like some folks don't want to believe that someone as big and neat as JFK was killed by the likes of LHO.

FWIW I don't believe in conspiracy theories. These two bozos were responsible but people can't accept it and cook up some better sounding story

Edited April 20, 2013 by Duncan

[Tacenda]

I think people don't want to believe that these two scum sucking lowlifes were responsible, they have to be part of something bigger. Just like some folks don't want to believe that someone as big and neat as JFK was killed by the likes of LHO.

FWIW I don't believe in conspiracy theories. These two bozos were responsible but people can't accept it and cook up some better sounding story

I'd hate to be the parents. I think they're in deny mode right now. I couldn't live knowing my children were so inhumane.

[teddyaware]

The conspiracy theories are already flying about the Boston bombings. People still believe that 9/11 was planned by the government. My question is why do some people, probably some here, believe so easily in a world wide conspiracy where the government (no matter who's in charge) is responsible for such horrendous acts rather than accepting the conspiracy is amongst individuals who hate and wish only to destroy. The reason I ask is I have family members who believe the government is behind it whenever something like this happens, and they are otherwise very practical.

Now I do believe the government can be careless, inefficient and sometimes just plain stupid but I don't give them credit for being able to plot such nefarious deeds and keep them "secret." Indeed the very fact that "everyone" knows about the conspiracy shows that they aren't true secret combinations. There is a fine line here between politics and discussion of governments in general and I would like a discussion without any political party or liberal or conservative being said. The conspiracy theorists cover all sides.

There are many non-LDS conspiracists but the ones who are LDS tend to link these things to the secret combinations of the BOM . However, 2 Nephi 26:22 tells us “And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever.” I don't doubt we have such groups today but it seems to me their goal is to get gain and not to become martyrs for a cause. I also believe that there isn't just one world-wide conspiracy but cabals of people whose goal is to get gain, but these cabals are unrelated except they are led by Satan, and they will use any such awful events to their own purpose.

I would be interested to hear anyone who believes as to why they do and what evidence they have for such things, without making political statements because such evils are beyond politics.

Hi Deborah,

I believe the reason why some Latter-day Saints believe the event in Boston, and events like it, could be part of a broader conspiracy all boils down to the prophecy found in Ether 8. Therein, Moroini warns the latter-day gentiles of the coming of a great worldwide secret combiniation, set up by malevolent earthly forces under the control of the adversary, to destroy the liberty and religious freedom of the entire world. This prophecy of Moroni is certainly one of the most dreadful and alarming prophecies pertaining to the last days to be found in all the Standard Works, and virtually all secret combination focused members view this specific prophecy as the foremost scriptural clarion call to awaken to the bitter truth. Read the prophecy slowly and ponder each phrase so as to catch the spirit of its meaning and import. Here it is:

20 And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their (the conspiratorial Jaredites) oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that they are had among all people, and they are had among the Lamanites.

21 And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi.

22 And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved.

I believe the enormous breadth and all-encompassing pervasiveness of this prophesied satanic conspiracy of the last days -- as so portrayed by Moroni -- causes some otherwise reasonable members of the Church to presume almost everytime some tragedy like the one in Boston happens, it must have something to do with the planning and oversight of the devil and his earthly agents as they plot and attempt to carry out their planned destruction of the world, as disclosed in Moroni's prophecy.

By the way, don't blame me for the seemingly alarmist tenor of this post, blame Moroni. Don't verbally stone me, I'm just the messenger.

Edited April 20, 2013 by teddyaware

[thesometimesaint]

A single person or small group of people just aren't that smart. So we invent elaborate conspiracies to help protect ourselves for the realization that we too just aren't that smart. Add in also if they were that smart we'd never realize what had been done, let alone catch them.

[Duncan]

A single person or small group of people just aren't that smart. So we invent elaborate conspiracies to help protect ourselves for the realization that we too just aren't that smart. Add in also if they were that smart we'd never realize what had been done, let alone catch them.

I totally, totally agree

[ERayR]

The problem is trying to sort out what is perpetrated individually and what is perpetrated by members of a conspiracy. Since we have no way of knowing until the investigations are complete. . .

Another problem is do you trust the investigators? So around and around we go.

Edited April 20, 2013 by ERayR

[Calm]

I think part of the desire to attribute it to a greater conspiracy is that it removes some of the randomness of the crimes...thus giving a greater sense that it is not as likely to happen to the ordinary citizen and thus give a greater sense of distance from the event and safety.

Another reason is somewhat the opposite reaction in that it allows one to play the victim role personally as one can then attribute the bad things in life to someone out there trying to screw up one's life rather than it just being a natural consequence of the fallen nature of the world and the evil that may exist in any of us...thus allowing one to avoid personal responsibility as well as giving an excuse to not succeed in that the world is stacked against such success by those in the conspiracy who want to suppress, oppress and rule the masses. (It would be interesting to find out if the stereotype of the conspiracy theorist that is usually portrayed by the media---as one who is less educated, lower income, etc. and less successful in life---is at all accurate.)

And last there is the very large payback in feeling like one is more insightful and wiser than the rest of the world that is gullible enough to swallow the conspiracies as well as the thrill of being in on the secret, having special knowledge over and above those around us.

However, I do believe that those who get obsessed with conspiracies to the point of paranoia have probably progressed beyond these simple reactions and gone to a level of more complicated behaviour due to the increased level of fear and distrust and sense of loss of control over one's life that belief in such conspiracies may lead to.

The reason I ask is I have family members who believe the government is behind it whenever something like this happens, and they are otherwise very practical.

I was just thinking last night that there were likely many out there that would interpret the lockdown that occurred where everything was shutdown and people were told to stay locked in their homes as serving the purpose of allowing the government to not only increase their control over others' lives, but also facilitate the creation of the cover story for the conspiracy since it would have removed actual witnesses.

[Sevenbak]

The conspiracy theories are already flying about the Boston bombings. People still believe that 9/11 was planned by the government. My question is why do some people, probably some here, believe so easily in a world wide conspiracy where the government (no matter who's in charge) is responsible for such horrendous acts rather than accepting the conspiracy is amongst individuals who hate and wish only to destroy. The reason I ask is I have family members who believe the government is behind it whenever something like this happens, and they are otherwise very practical.

Now I do believe the government can be careless, inefficient and sometimes just plain stupid but I don't give them credit for being able to plot such nefarious deeds and keep them "secret." Indeed the very fact that "everyone" knows about the conspiracy shows that they aren't true secret combinations. There is a fine line here between politics and discussion of governments in general and I would like a discussion without any political party or liberal or conservative being said. The conspiracy theorists cover all sides.

There are many non-LDS conspiracists but the ones who are LDS tend to link these things to the secret combinations of the BOM . However, 2 Nephi 26:22 tells us “And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever.” I don't doubt we have such groups today but it seems to me their goal is to get gain and not to become martyrs for a cause. I also believe that there isn't just one world-wide conspiracy but cabals of people whose goal is to get gain, but these cabals are unrelated except they are led by Satan, and they will use any such awful events to their own purpose.

I would be interested to hear anyone who believes as to why they do and what evidence they have for such things, without making political statements because such evils are beyond politics.

Though he was talking about 911, I think President Hinckley's conference address supports the view that this was a bigger, more philosophical group rather than a rogue few. I also believe the same motivations and philosophies were behind Boston. (Not necessarily, however, a government inside job.)

"It is the terrorist organizations that must be ferreted out and brought down.

We of this Church know something of such groups. The Book of Mormonspeaks of the Gadianton robbers, a vicious, oath-bound, and secret organization bent on evil and destruction. In their day they did all in their power, by whatever means available, to bring down the Church, to woo the people with sophistry, and to take control of the society. We see the same thing in the present situation.

We are people of peace. We are followers of the Christ who was and is the Prince of Peace. But there are times when we must stand up for right and decency, for freedom and civilization, just as Moroni rallied his people in his day to the defense of their wives, their children, and the cause of liberty (see Alma 48:10)."

http://www.lds.org/g...e-live?lang=eng

Edited April 20, 2013 by Sevenbak

[cinepro]

I think we've already covered most the reasons why people are susceptible to conspiracy theories. I think the most insightful comment on the 9/11 conspiracy theorists was a South Park episode. It's a very convoluted episode, but basically the boys end up at the White House with some 9/11 conspiracy theorists, who are then killed by President Bush! Bush and Cheney explain how the government was behind 9/11 and try to kill the boys, but they escape.

But then the boys run into the conspiracy theorists outside of a hamburger stand; turns out they weren't killed by Bush, it was all a ruse. They later end up with President Bush again, at which point:

Kyle realizes that Bush lied about the government causing 9/11 and Bush admits to it, explaining that the government actually runs all the websites that claim they were responsible, making the conspiracy theories actually a government conspiracy themselves. The point is that, since one-fourth of Americans are "retarded" and will believe conspiracies, the government wants them to believe that it is all-powerful and could get away with the worst terrorist attack in history, while they tell the other 75% of the country the truth—that 9/11 was caused (in Stan's words) by "a bunch of pissed off Muslims."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_of_the_Urinal_Deuce

So the conspiracy theories serve the purpose of distracting the portion of the population who have to believe in a powerful government.

Obviously, the government isn't behind the conspiracies, but it was a funny take on the psychology of the conspiracy movement.

[Deborah]

I believe the enormous breadth and all-encompassing pervasiveness of this prophesied satanic conspiracy of the last days -- as so portrayed by Moroni -- causes some otherwise reasonable members of the Church to presume almost everytime some tragedy like the one in Boston happens, it must have something to do with the planning and oversight of the devil and his earthly agents as they plot and attempt to carry out their planned destruction of the world, as disclosed in Moroni's prophecy.

I actually agree with this but my take on it is that it is Satan, the father of lies, influencing individuals and individual groups, and not a world wide organization run by Satan. Because Satan is the Father of lies and misery they all have the same agenda of death and destruction.

[Deborah]

I was just thinking last night that there were likely many out there that would interpret the lockdown that occurred where everything was shutdown and people were told to stay locked in their homes as serving the purpose of allowing the government to not only increase their control over others' lives, but also facilitate the creation of the cover story for the conspiracy since it would have removed actual witnesses.

That is exactly the argument given, and that this was a test run so they can do it on a larger scale, where to me it just made sense with an armed killer on the loose to tell people not to leave their homes.

[ERayR]

I think we've already covered most the reasons why people are susceptible to conspiracy theories. I think the most insightful comment on the 9/11 conspiracy theorists was a South Park episode. It's a very convoluted episode, but basically the boys end up at the White House with some 9/11 conspiracy theorists, who are then killed by President Bush! Bush and Cheney explain how the government was behind 9/11 and try to kill the boys, but they escape.

But then the boys run into the conspiracy theorists outside of a hamburger stand; turns out they weren't killed by Bush, it was all a ruse. They later end up with President Bush again, at which point:

So the conspiracy theories serve the purpose of distracting the portion of the population who have to believe in a powerful government.

Obviously, the government isn't behind the conspiracies, but it was a funny take on the psychology of the conspiracy movement.

I think the most insightful comment on the 9/11 conspiracy theorists is: And others will he ^apacify, and lull them away into carnal ^bsecurity, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the ^cdevil ^dcheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell. (2 Nephi 28:21)

[Calm]

That is exactly the argument given, and that this was a test run so they can do it on a larger scale, where to me it just made sense with an armed killer on the loose to tell people not to leave their homes.

Especially considering how they had already carjacked one man and had access to explosives.

[Calm]

That is exactly the argument given, and that this was a test run so they can do it on a larger scale....

Well, they are nothing if not predictable...

[ERayR]

I actually agree with this but my take on it is that it is Satan, the father of lies, influencing individuals and individual groups, and not a world wide organization run by Satan. Because Satan is the Father of lies and misery they all have the same agenda of death and destruction.

I really think you sell old scratch short. I think he has a worldwide organization. Church of the devil.

[Calm]

I really think you sell old scratch short. I think he has a worldwide organization. Church of the devil.

Do you think there is an actual organization rather than just elements all over who 'believe' in such 'ideals'? Not that they worship Satan (though perhaps they would), but rather their organization's mission is 'whatever for gain and power'. Edited April 20, 2013 by calmoriah

[Sevenbak]

Do you think there is an actual organization rather than just elements all over who 'believe' in such 'ideals'? Not that they worship Satan (though perhaps they would), but rather their organization's mission is 'whatever for gain and power'.

What if the altar they worship at is not known to them, but they worship still the same, each in their own way, collectively as opposition to light and truth. Edited April 20, 2013 by Sevenbak

[ERayR]

Do you think there is an actual organization rather than just elements all over who 'believe' in such 'ideals'? Not that they worship Satan (though perhaps they would), but rather their organization's mission is 'whatever for gain and power'.

The answer is yes to all of the above. I think the "Gadianton Robbers" are alive and well still administering the oaths and covenants that Satan taught to Cain, which he administered to his family and associates. I also think there are those who are doing these things for their own reasons.

[Rob Osborn]

never have figured out conspiracy theorists. not sure exactly why people cant do their own unbiased research to find the truth. one thing I have noticed though is that pretty much every conspiracy theorist gets all their information from one or two sources who are clearly politically one sided. It boggles my head knowing that conspiracy theorists have some of the brightest minds yet have no desire to find the truth outside of their source for news and information.

[Rob Osborn]

The gadianton robbers are very much alive and well infiltrated into the Mexican government.

[Duncan]

I had a bishop years ago who is what you would call paranoid to the point of deluional. He believes he knows secrets and "The Government" wants to shut him up...he thought his toothpaste is bugged by them so he uses homebrew. You can't get onto his property without him seeing you or knowing about it as he has video cameras everywhere. His family is equally nutso. One son claims to have possibly seen a drug deal go down on a highway and now, years, later, he is afraid the H*lls Angels are after him and his family and it goes on and on. If you want a good laugh go to the Gospel doctrine class the former bishop teaches

[mercyngrace]

I don't doubt we have such groups today but it seems to me their goal is to get gain and not to become martyrs for a cause. I also believe that there isn't just one world-wide conspiracy but cabals of people whose goal is to get gain, but these cabals are unrelated except they are led by Satan, and they will use any such awful events to their own purpose.

I'm skeptical that any large organization can keep secret it's true intentions for long which means I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist. Furthermore, I tend to believe that most human beings are good and do the best they know in any given moment however, I believe I could make the argument as to why these kinds of events could be perpetrated to get gain.

Someone benefits financially when Americans are frightened enough to demand/applaud drones and thermal imaging helicopters fly over their streets.

Someone benefits financially when Americans are afraid enough to want cameras on every corner and better armed police and government agencies.

Someone benefits financially when Americans fear groups and nations enough to make war with them.

Someone benefits financially every time we build a bomb, a tank and a kevlar vest. (And I say this having put my hands on all three of those and supported their use many times in my life.)

Someone is able to expand government and raise taxes to support expensive programs every time Americans are frightened enough to cry out "Save us!" to government agents. And someone profits from the products and practices implemented by those programs.

Someone amasses power, influence, and ultimately control, every time we put boots on the ground on foreign soil. While our sons and daughter dodge sniper fire, someone signs trade embargoes or creates now-necessary alliances that expand national reach. And someone, often someone our government selects (like the same Saddam Hussein we later dumped off his seat of power), is installed as president, prime minister, king, or chieftan and that someone, at least for a time, usually supports our cause.

Is it beyond belief that people can be swayed into thinking they are acting for one cause when they are really pawns for another, more nefarious one? Is it beyond belief that a young person may act on ideological reasons he has been taught to embrace by someone he may never have even heard of, but whose goals have nothing to do with the ideology itself?

For example, do kids start smoking because they want tobacco companies to make quarterly sales targets or because they think they look cool?

Do marketing execs at Nike believe that buying Air Jordans will better your game on the court or are they after something else entirely?

Obviously, the fact that someone profits doesn't mean there is a conspiracy. The fact that governments, ours included, seem to march toward Imperialism doesn't mean there is a conspiracy. Lincoln could be considered our most imperialist president but I doubt anyone believes the Civil War was started by false flag events. Still, the fact that someone does benefit from such awful incidents and from horrors like war, gives rise to conspiracy theories and, I believe always will.

One point I think worth making, and the reason I asked the questions about tobacco companies and Nike is that a conspiracy doesn't have to be huge to be effective. It simply has to have the right voice. And some ideas are so powerful (like the need to be accepted socially or the drive to excel above your peers) that they need only be planted in fertile minds and associated with a specific product or ideology in order to have predictable impacts without that "right voice"/spokesman ever having direct contact with the person who then acts on the idea. These are basic principles of marketing.

Edited April 20, 2013 by mercyngrace

[ERayR]

The gadianton robbers are very much alive and well infiltrated into the Mexican government.

You are thinking way too small in scope. However so as to keep this thread from getting political and locked I will pass on any discussion.

[Calm]

I had a bishop years ago who is what you would call paranoid to the point of deluional. He believes he knows secrets and "The Government" wants to shut him up...he thought his toothpaste is bugged by them so he uses homebrew. You can't get onto his property without him seeing you or knowing about it as he has video cameras everywhere. His family is equally nutso. One son claims to have possibly seen a drug deal go down on a highway and now, years, later, he is afraid the H*lls Angels are after him and his family and it goes on and on. If you want a good laugh go to the Gospel doctrine class the former bishop teaches

You have a very strange ward.