ChristKnight Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 So lately I've been having a few discussions with non-members about prophets. I just had one of these conversations with a Seventh-day Adventist coworker, after we talked about the Sabbath/Sunday, of course. So, the question for this thread is, how do you see LDS prophets in relation to the Biblical prophets, as far as function, authority, being "living oracles" (a term I've seen a lot in relation to the restored Church having prophets), etc?
cdowis Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 Why not ask your friends what they think makes a prophet to start the conversation.
CV75 Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 They function as God's authorized spokespersons and legal administrators on the earth; they are authorized to bind and loose in earth and heaven; they offer revealed doctrine, covenants, ordinances, counsel and prophecy, etc. to those that sustain them (followers) or receive them (proselytes and friends).I think we can draw a parallel in some manner between what is documented in the Bible about any prophet and our modern LDS prophets (Brigham Young led a migration like Moses, for example). Each LDS prophet's hallmark accomplishment(s) show prophetic mantles (e.g. Kimball, missionary and Lamanite work; Benson, Book of Mormon; Hunter, temple activity; Hinckley, media; Monson, humanitarian aid), with each one keeping, building upon and expanding the advancements of his predecessor. 1
Kevin Christensen Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 (edited) This is how I see it:http://en.fairmormon..._False_ProphetsFWIWKevin ChristensenPittsburgh, PA Edited April 18, 2013 by Kevin Christensen 2
rpn Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 Sure, in the same way the wheel functions today like it did in Adam's day. But today it turns a dial on a watch, and back then it made a cart move around. Same principle: Different Needs.
Robert F. Smith Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 So lately I've been having a few discussions with non-members about prophets. I just had one of these conversations with a Seventh-day Adventist coworker, after we talked about the Sabbath/Sunday, of course.So, the question for this thread is, how do you see LDS prophets in relation to the Biblical prophets, as far as function, authority, being "living oracles" (a term I've seen a lot in relation to the restored Church having prophets), etc?First, note that a modern LDS prophet allowed all LDS Sabbath services in Israel to be held on Saturday. That has been going on there for over 40 years. I myself used to meet at the Jerusalem LDS Branch every saturday.Then, note that the LDS Church (the authentic Kingdom of God on Earth) has gone through several prophetic phases: The extraordinary Joseph Smith Restoration, The Exodus and Gathering under Brigham Young, the era of consolidation through pioneering and improvement, the era of accommodation and institution building, and now an era of rapid temple building and vast missionary work across the globe, all designed to ready the world for the return of the Savior and the start of the fabled Millennium in which all the ordinance work will be finished, all the children of God will be there for the Last Judgment. If it sometimes seems that the Church is a huge corporation and a bureaucratic nightmare, be advised that it is necessary -- even if it doesn't seem rustic and old fashioned (like the Bible). 1
CASteinman Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 I think some did and some did not. I think Moses did -- and was like Joseph Smith. I think Joshua did and was like Brigham Young. But then, Isaiah and Jeremiah and Malachi -- not so much.
Freedom Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 We have to separate the culture practices from the calling. Joseph and Daniel, for example, catered to a people who revered dreams. They also lived in a time of slavery. Not finding our prophet in prison interpreting dreams is no indication of his prophetic qualifications.
Saints Alive Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 Yes and no. Yes in that they testify of Christ and recieve revelation.No in that they are also the president of the church, a role that is distinct and separate. Biblical prophets were not usually the leaders of the church.
brightpath Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 No they do not function as biblical prophets because they are not the true seed of Israel. They are adopted Gentiles into the House of Israel. They are not the literal seed.
Saints Alive Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 No they do not function as biblical prophets because they are not the true seed of Israel. They are adopted Gentiles into the House of Israel. They are not the literal seed.Noah was a prophet, and that was before there was an Israel.
brightpath Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 Noah was from the chosen seed that carried on the priesthood thru his son Shem. If you follow the priesthood lineage then you will follow the chosen seed aka Hebrews, Israel.
ChristKnight Posted April 20, 2013 Author Posted April 20, 2013 Why not ask your friends what they think makes a prophet to start the conversation.Thanks yeah, I'll definitely ask that next week (we pretty much only talked about a basic overview of the LDS faith, apostasy, the Sabbath as Saturday, whether or not everything to be believed has to be found in the Bible only, and his belief that the "signs of the times" are pointing to Christ's imminent return). I didn't get to ask about Ellen G. White and how SDAs understand her role (I know that she's regarded as having the "spirit of prophecy", but I wonder if they believe in other prophets besides her), nor did I get to ask how the SDA Church was started, since I don't really understand how the SDA Church views itself as far as apostasy and restoration, as well as authority.
Stone holm Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 No they do not function as biblical prophets because they are not the true seed of Israel. They are adopted Gentiles into the House of Israel. They are not the literal seed.That is not necessarily true. Few are adopted in, most are of the lineage of Ephraim or Manasseh. As to the question as to the question of function. Yes and no, as to most of the early prophets kind of, as to the more recent somewhat. Now they are more like a combination of Old Testament Prophet and Pope, with it leaning more towards Pope.
Robert F. Smith Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 Yes and no.Yes in that they testify of Christ and recieve revelation.No in that they are also the president of the church, a role that is distinct and separate. Biblical prophets were not usually the leaders of the church.Samuel the Prophet was an Ephraimite, yet he ran the whole kit-n-kaboodle, functioning as priest, prophet, judge, and seer. This did not make him king.The same is true in our day. The camp of Israel is entirely in the hands of the Prophet, yet the president of the civil society is not under his control.
bcuzbcuz Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 Samuel the Prophet was an Ephraimite, yet he ran the whole kit-n-kaboodle, functioning as priest, prophet, judge, and seer. This did not make him king.The same is true in our day. The camp of Israel is entirely in the hands of the Prophet, yet the president of the civil society is not under his control.Would have been if Romney had won the election.Political, you are out of the thread.
brightpath Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 Thomas S Monson is an adopted Gentile into Israel. So he is not like the biblical Israelite prophets of old.
ksfisher Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 Thomas S Monson is an adopted Gentile into Israel. So he is not like the biblical Israelite prophets of old.CFR that Thomas S Monson is adopted into the House of Israel. Do you have his genealogy?
Questing Beast Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) So lately I've been having a few discussions with non-members about prophets. I just had one of these conversations with a Seventh-day Adventist coworker, after we talked about the Sabbath/Sunday, of course.So, the question for this thread is, how do you see LDS prophets in relation to the Biblical prophets, as far as function, authority, being "living oracles" (a term I've seen a lot in relation to the restored Church having prophets), etc?Joseph Smith patterned his language and content after "biblical" prophets. B Young less so, and even less so with the presidents of the church after that. "Thus saith the Lord" is almost unheard of in over a hundred years. It seems that nobody in that "chair" wants to put on airs or present a "prophetic" image. Yet they want the doctrine to entitle them as "prophets, seers and revelators". Our imagination is colored by KJV lingo, still. And there is no one in LDS history remotely like Elijah as depicted. So to me "prophets" today are very different than in the Bible. This would be mainly because the "God" of the OT was immediate with his prophets, individually and exclusively, one on one, one at a time, whereas ours are part of a quorum and do not speak as individuals. Even lesser "prophets" in biblical times appear to wander about as directed and do not participate as part of a group/quorum. For instance, Lehi is called through dreams to preach repentance and there are others doing likewise (notably Jeremiah, the "individual" or singular, that is to say "chief" prophet), but no indication that any of them gather to arrive at a consensus before they pronounce "thus saith the Lord". That was all very different from how it's done today. Of course, much is probably left out in the retelling especially after thousands of years.... Edited April 22, 2013 by Questing Beast 1
Stone holm Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 Joseph Smith patterned his language and content after "biblical" prophets. B Young less so, and even less so with the presidents of the church after that. "Thus saith the Lord" is almost unheard of in over a hundred years. It seems that nobody in that "chair" wants to put on airs or present a "prophetic" image. Yet they want the doctrine to entitle them as "prophets, seers and revelators". Our imagination is colored by KJV lingo, still. And there is no one in LDS history remotely like Elijah as depicted. So to me "prophets" today are very different than in the Bible. This would be mainly because the "God" of the OT was immediate with his prophets, individually and exclusively, one on one, one at a time, whereas ours are part of a quorum and do not speak as individuals. Even lesser "prophets" in biblical times appear to wander about as directed and do not participate as part of a group/quorum. For instance, Lehi is called through dreams to preach repentance and there are others doing likewise (notably Jeremiah, the "individual" or singular, that is to say "chief" prophet), but no indication that any of them gather to arrive at a consensus before they pronounce "thus saith the Lord". That was all very different from how it's done today. Of course, much is probably left out in the retelling especially after thousands of years....You mean prophets back then didn't get committee approval and approval of the governing body of the Church before announcing they had a vision from The Lord? Oh perish the thought that OT prophets didn't behave like corporate CEOs.
Robert F. Smith Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 Would have been if Romney had won the election.Yeh, and if hens had teeth.
brightpath Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 He's white and his lineage comes from Europe. Europe is the mother Gentile as Nephi refers to in 1 Nephi 13. Read thus chapter in depth.
ksfisher Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 He's white and his lineage comes from Europe. Europe is the mother Gentile as Nephi refers to in 1 Nephi 13. Read thus chapter in depth.So the continent on which your ancestors were born determines your linage? What about Jews born in Europe? Are they Jewish or Gentile? Where on earth does a person need to be born to be part of the House of Israel? Or perhaps God looks more upon a person's heart when determining who he will make covenants with that who their parents are.
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