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Independent Scripture Study Groups


bluebell

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I seem to remember that the church does not condone groups of members meeting in someone's home for extracurricular scripture study groups, but I don't remember if that was a temporary thing or if the church still prohibits them (and I'm not even sure if i'm right in my memory that they aren't really allowed).

Does anyone know?

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I would LOVE to get in on one! But I don't know if the Church supports it. We actually have one going on in our ward held by this member and she is acting as a mother hen type to new converts, which is great except this lady is feeding them bizarro ideas. So, it's frustrating to know what to do about it. All in all they can be good but if they are bad then they can be bad!

I found this quotation on the 'net from the CHI from 2001

"We repeat the counsel set forth in the Church Handbook of Instruction, page 157: “Church members should not participate in groups that… Challenge religious and moral values… Imitate sacred rites or ceremonies… Meet late into the evening or in the early-morning hours… We strongly counsel against affiliation with any such group…”"

suppose early morning seminary is out! haha!

Edited by Duncan
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Which is exactly why such groups were "outlawed." IIRC that whole group of nutters in Manti started out as a home study group, and I think it's because of them that the policy was put in place.

Anti Manti is what I heard! sadly one of the leaders involved with Harmston served a mission here

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I'm not aware of anything in the handbook which prohibits independent study groups. As long as the people involved don't purport it to be a church activity, I don't see how the church can prohibit a group of friends from getting together and discussing the gospel.

That being said, independent study groups are not supported by the church. Meaning the church does not provide material resources or facilities for such groups. What the church does support is gospel study within the home, seminary and institute, and gospel instruction in quorum, group, and auxiliary meetings.

The church does prohibit the performance of temple rites outside of the temple, as mentioned above, but this seems to be a whole different ball game than discussing the scriptures.

If I was the bishop of Duncan's ward, however, I would be very concerned if someone was teaching new members "bizarro ideas." Milk before meat, and even after that very lean meat.

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I'm not aware of anything in the handbook which prohibits independent study groups. As long as the people involved don't purport it to be a church activity, I don't see how the church can prohibit a group of friends from getting together and discussing the gospel.

That being said, independent study groups are not supported by the church. Meaning the church does not provide material resources or facilities for such groups. What the church does support is gospel study within the home, seminary and institute, and gospel instruction in quorum, group, and auxiliary meetings.

The church does prohibit the performance of temple rites outside of the temple, as mentioned above, but this seems to be a whole different ball game than discussing the scriptures.

If I was the bishop of Duncan's ward, however, I would be very concerned if someone was teaching new members "bizarro ideas." Milk before meat, and even after that very lean meat.

the Bishopric all know about it. It would hopefully take a meeting with the lady in question -to shut down the operation but....that doesn't sound like it's going to happen anytime soon, oh well eh?

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the Bishopric all know about it. It would hopefully take a meeting with the lady in question -to shut down the operation but....that doesn't sound like it's going to happen anytime soon, oh well eh?

Out of curiosity, what are the "bizarro ideas" ?

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Out of curiosity, what are the "bizarro ideas" ?

you can make your own garments, the Holy Ghost and Priesthood aren't "real" they are just all in your head, Jesus isn't the son of God um, oh and then Skousen political type stuff-which is fine except we live in Canada and so we don't have the same history as the US-These are some of the ones I know of. I know the one guy believes that if you can murder if need be (The elders and him were out teaching someone and they were teaching the commandments and the elder said in passing something like we don't murder and then this guy said that if you had to you should) So, it's an ongoing battle. Plus this lady I believe pushes people to the Temple. I complained to the Bishop and he agreed with me but then I was like thinking yeah but you're the Bishop so...do something!!!!!!

That same guy at our last baptism, for whatever threw rose petals into the water (yours truly and the elders had to fish them all out) and he was called onto to pray and called it a "bath", needless to say he is a weird one

I don't want to threadjack this! haha!

Edited by Duncan
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I don't want to threadjack this! haha!

I don't think it's a thread highjack, I think that it highlights the problems that can arise with independent study groups. If not done properly then can do some real damage. I believe there is a real power that comes to a person as they teach the gospel after being call and set apart (this includes to vital roles of a mother and father in teaching the gospel to their children). When we take the mantle of a teacher upon ourselves we don't have that power.

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Which is exactly why such groups were "outlawed." IIRC that whole group of nutters in Manti started out as a home study group, and I think it's because of them that the policy was put in place.

the Bishopric all know about it. It would hopefully take a meeting with the lady in question -to shut down the operation but....that doesn't sound like it's going to happen anytime soon, oh well eh?

The Church cannot "forbid" a group from meeting, but they can certainly counsel against it for the very reasons stated above... too easy for someone like the lady in question to put forth ideas or opinions that are confusing, contradictory, and just plain "way out there."

Duncan... this woman might be doing irreparable harm... can't you talk with the bishop and suggest she needs to be stopped, or counseled at the very least. And if the new converts are in your ward, perhaps it would be a good idea to have the bishop schedule a meeting with each person... sort of a "how are you doing" meeting, and then suggest they disengage from her. Sounds like he's afraid... the longer she is allowed to spew her nonsense to them, the more likely they will turn away...

GG

Edited by Garden Girl
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The Church cannot "forbid" a group from meeting, but they can certainly counsel against it for the very reasons stated above... too easy for someone like the lady in question to put forth ideas or opinions that are confusing, contradictory, and just plain "way out there."

Duncan... this woman might be doing irreparable harm... can't you not talk with the bishop and suggest she needs to be stopped, or counseled at the very least. And if the new converts are in your ward, perhaps it would be a good idea to have the bishop schedule a meeting with each person... sort of a "how are you doing" meeting, and then suggest they disengage from her. Sounds like he's afraid... the longer she is allowed to spew her nonsense to them, the more likely they will turn away...

GG

this is my life!!! haha! I FULLY agree with you!!-I am the WML here and myself, the primary (where two of the people teach... ) and the EQ are trying to play cleanup after the dam burst every week. He counseled me to try to go over there to asses the situation. Well, forget that I can asses the situation fine when they speak up in gospel principles class and asks questions and say all this gobbly gookiness (where on earth did you hear that I say, Sis. hocus pocus said that...like, she told you Jesus was a "street smart socialist"?) So, a bunch of them went to the Temple for the first time with her these past two weeks and so I can't wait to hear how it all went. So, if anyone, anyone!!! says anything I am telling the Bishop my recommendation is for You to sit down with her and zip her lip and tell her to disband-I hate to say it but we call the "Fruit loop group"

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you can make your own garments, the Holy Ghost and Priesthood aren't "real" they are just all in your head, Jesus isn't the son of God um, oh and then Skousen political type stuff-which is fine except we live in Canada and so we don't have the same history as the US-These are some of the ones I know of. I know the one guy believes that if you can murder if need be (The elders and him were out teaching someone and they were teaching the commandments and the elder said in passing something like we don't murder and then this guy said that if you had to you should) So, it's an ongoing battle. Plus this lady I believe pushes people to the Temple. I complained to the Bishop and he agreed with me but then I was like thinking yeah but you're the Bishop so...do something!!!!!!

That same guy at our last baptism, for whatever threw rose petals into the water (yours truly and the elders had to fish them all out) and he was called onto to pray and called it a "bath", needless to say he is a weird one

I don't want to threadjack this! haha!

That's hilarious. But should be stopped of course (while we have a good chuckle at it!)

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I'm not aware of anything in the handbook which prohibits independent study groups. As long as the people involved don't purport it to be a church activity, I don't see how the church can prohibit a group of friends from getting together and discussing the gospel.

That being said, independent study groups are not supported by the church. Meaning the church does not provide material resources or facilities for such groups. What the church does support is gospel study within the home, seminary and institute, and gospel instruction in quorum, group, and auxiliary meetings.

The church does prohibit the performance of temple rites outside of the temple, as mentioned above, but this seems to be a whole different ball game than discussing the scriptures.

If I was the bishop of Duncan's ward, however, I would be very concerned if someone was teaching new members "bizarro ideas." Milk before meat, and even after that very lean meat.

I'm asking because there is a sister in my ward who wants to do a monthly scripture study as part of the RS groups that we are allowed to form as part of what was previously known as RS enrichment meetings. I'll obviously ask the Bishop his thoughts on it but i wanted to double check some of my 'facts' before having that conversation.

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I'm asking because there is a sister in my ward who wants to do a monthly scripture study as part of the RS groups that we are allowed to form as part of what was previously known as RS enrichment meetings. I'll obviously ask the Bishop his thoughts on it but i wanted to double check some of my 'facts' before having that conversation.

Relief Society sisters getting together and discussing the scriptures once a month sounds entirely appropriate to me. Especially as it is part of the relief society program and, I assume, would be lead by a member of the presidency or at least someone called to lead the group. This would then be a church activity and not an independent group.

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That's hilarious. But should be stopped of course (while we have a good chuckle at it!)

How can it be stopped though? The bishop could ask, but if the member declined to stop something they were doing in their own home and not under the auspices of the church, what could the bishop do? If the member were teaching blatantly false doctrine they could be disciplined, but I think this would be the very last thing a bishop would want to do.

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And yet it might be the thing he has to do. If she's turning every new convert into a "fruit loop" then it is up to the bishop to sit her down and straighten her up. If she refuses, and continues to teach false doctrine, something has to be done.

this is the thing, everyone knows she is the problem but the Bishop won't do anything and it's frustrating at times!

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How can it be stopped though? The bishop could ask, but if the member declined to stop something they were doing in their own home and not under the auspices of the church, what could the bishop do? If the member were teaching blatantly false doctrine they could be disciplined, but I think this would be the very last thing a bishop would want to do.

The bishop could pull aside the new members and counsel them not to attend.

We have an Empty Nesters FHE group that meets and has lessons, there is a couple that is in charge (whether or not volunteer or calling, I don't know), but we announce their meetings in the ward bulletin.

Edited by calmoriah
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Wasn't it your Bishop who was the micro manager?

yes! he is but he has a hands off approach to this. He assigned me to go over there to assess the situation, write him a report...and then see what can be done. I told him forget that stuff just sit down with her and give her a PPI interview (potentially Perturbed Individual) Because for the past year when these converts come to my gospel principles class they say what she told them and so I heard it firsthand. I called the Bishop the other day telling him about something and I told him iIfeel she is pushing all these people to the Temple before they are ready and he agrees with me but I am like yeah but you're on the one who signed off on their recommend and so do something!!! In thinking more about this I suspect he wants us to figure out what to tell him on how to deal with it and other situations.

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I really hate to say this, but if the bishop won't do anything maybe an appointment with the SP is in order. I think that the bishop is just afraid of the turmoil this will cause, and is afraid to do anything that will start a war. Of course I don't know him or the situation, but that's what it looks like to me.

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I really hate to say this, but if the bishop won't do anything maybe an appointment with the SP is in order. I think that the bishop is just afraid of the turmoil this will cause, and is afraid to do anything that will start a war. Of course I don't know him or the situation, but that's what it looks like to me.

I fully agree with you-here, though, is another wrinkle in this bag of chips. The thing of it is well, back in the summertime I was asked by the Stake President on behalf of the new Mission President to get the ward mission leaders opinions of how missionary work could be improved.They asked and I answered, oh boy did I answer. I upset a lot of people and I even had an interview with the stake president! and I think...one or two folks are kinda I dunno unsure of me because I have seen the status quo been done to death here and I have some ideas of how things can be improved and well...I just don't want to do the same things over and over again.So, I think the Stake President doesn't know how to take me, if that helps!

right now I am trying to get a list of exed members to send out the elders to and see if they would be interested in coming back. All I want is a name and an address. I haven't heard back from the Bishop and I also emailed a member of the stake pres. My bro, who is the stake clerk, said they don't have a list of exed people but they have church court records of people so someone would have to go through these and find out who lives in our ward boundaries so I was like well, do that then.. So, more to come as the plot thickens!

I hope I don't give anyone the impression I am a melodramatic person! I am not!

Edited by Duncan
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The bishop could pull aside the new members and counsel them not to attend.

We have an Empty Nesters FHE group that meets and has lessons, there is a couple that is in charge (whether or not volunteer or calling, I don't know), but we announce their meetings in the ward bulletin.

This is similar to what our ward did that included anyone, whether a member or not, it was a bookclub and it was announced in our RS Newsletter. Too bad it's not going on anymore, that I know of.
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