A Former Apostates Observations Of General Conference

[Nathair/|\]

I just had this pop into my head, thinking you may enjoy.

When I first started my journey back I was given a book of Joseph Smith teachings. It was a small, old, blue book that was falling apart. You could almost smell that it was an antique. It may have been old, that did not deter me from feeling like the spirit was permeating from the book. As a man who had said vicous things about the chuch, I started feeling guilty as I felt the Spirit, yet at that time an immense joy filled me. It made me desire to start reading immediatly. As I browsed not reading many words just turning pages a miracle occured. I flipped through about three different pages. Feeling as though the spirit was guiding me. Then I turned to a section, laid eyes on the section title and knew the Lord loved even the most vile sinners, even myself.

That was in response to Brother Phelps who was partially responsible for incarcerating Joseph Smith Jr. in Liberty Jail. Brother Phelps put Joseph in jail for four months. Yet, Joseph Smith Jr. the Lord's mouthpiece on earth was able to forgive him immediatly. Signing off with, "Come on, dear brother, since the war is past, For friends at first, are friends again at last." Nothing had ever made me feel the love of God more then that amazing miracle. It was as if in that moment my soul was lifted from the pits of hell, a guilty conscious to the heights of heaven. For I knew at that moment, that the Lord forgived all men, loving them unconditionally, thereby receiving them back into his father's house to receive all his blessings.

Do you think Bro. Phelps had that in mind when he wrote

[Hamba Tuhan]

This is the most peace my mind has had FOR YEARS.

Welcome home, brother.

You probably already know this, but the peace isn't the end of the journey. In many ways, it's just the beginning, with blessings to follow which will be impossible to believe until you experience them for yourself.

[Hamba Tuhan]

What a gift we have in the church to have witnesses, and especially apostolic witnesses.

I taught a man on my mission who had been pressured by a recent convert who worked in his office to come to church with her one Sunday afternoon. An investment banker, he had agreed to come just once if she would then promise to leave him alone. We met him briefly before sacrament meeting and then caught up with him again afterward. It was Fast Sunday, and I asked him what he'd thought of the service. He said he'd never seen anything like it in his entire life. He'd grown up in a deeply religious family (though he'd fallen away from religion as an adult) and had attended nun-run schools his entire life, had had priests regularly visit his home for dinner, etc., but, he said, he'd never before heard people speak with such simple conviction. It was one of the reasons he agreed to start meeting with us. Six months later, I returned for his baptism, and about 18 months after that, I returned as a non-missionary at his request to see him one last time before his succumbing to cancer. I remember the first night at his flat: he was gaunt and bald and pale and weak, but he shared with me his witness: 'No sane person would ever choose to go through this', he said, 'but I wouldn't trade it for anything now that I'm here because I've come to know my Saviour in a way I never before thought possible'.

[Stargazer]

Sounds like Elder Packer really made an impression on you. I like him too, and some others as well, but isn't it odd that some people can still think some really bad things about him as if he doesn't at least have good intentions and sincere beliefs. All people in all other religions should have those things too, and yet some people stand out and make a bigger impression on us than some others. The witness of the Spirit accounts for a lot of that, I think, but it also seems as though we are living in another world than all other people. Some people just don't seem to be able to see it, or hear it, or feel it, and in a sense it is kinda hard to believe.

Elder Packer really impressed (and that's a weak word for it) me years and years ago not long after he was called to the 12. I joined the church just after that, I think. At one time I was convinced he would one day be the President of the Church, but, and I say this with sadness, I am afraid that will not be so.

[Ahab]

Elder Packer really impressed (and that's a weak word for it) me years and years ago not long after he was called to the 12. I joined the church just after that, I think. At one time I was convinced he would one day be the President of the Church, but, and I say this with sadness, I am afraid that will not be so.

He's always been one of my favorites as well, since I first heard about and joined the Church in 1989, but I think any of our Lord's apostles would do equally well as the Presiding High Priest of the Church. Each of them does have their own personality, and I tend to gravitate toward some more than others, but all of them are equally qualified and would do equally as well as another, or at least I think so.

What I was commenting on earlier was how it's interesting how some of them make more of an impression on us than some others, with each of us having our own favorites. I'm sure some people out there are as impressed with some other apostle as I am of Elder Packer, or President Uchdorf, or Elder Bednar, or Elder Scott, or Elder Holland, or President Eyring, or Elder Oaks, or President Monson, or... any of the other general Church authorities, including members of the Seventy or even members of the women's organizations. Maybe the ones we like the most are the ones who are the most like us, or maybe the ones who have something in them that we would also like to have as a part of us.

Anyway, at any rate, it still boggles my mind that some people can be so antagonistic toward such wonderful people. It seems to me that everyone should at least be able to see that they are sincere in their beliefs and not trying to "dupe" other people. They're just sharing what they truly believe which they believe is good, focusing primarily on trying to share things about our Savior and our Father in heaven and how we can become more like them.

[ERayR]

He's always been one of my favorites as well, since I first heard about and joined the Church in 1989, but I think any of our Lord's apostles would do equally well as the Presiding High Priest of the Church. Each of them does have their own personality, and I tend to gravitate toward some more than others, but all of them are equally qualified and would do equally as well as another, or at least I think so.

What I was commenting on earlier was how it's interesting how some of them make more of an impression on us than some others, with each of us having our own favorites. I'm sure some people out there are as impressed with some other apostle as I am of Elder Packer, or President Uchdorf, or Elder Bednar, or Elder Scott, or Elder Holland, or President Eyring, or Elder Oaks, or President Monson, or... any of the other general Church authorities, including members of the Seventy or even members of the women's organizations. Maybe the ones we like the most are the ones who are the most like us, or maybe the ones who have something in them that we would also like to have as a part of us.

Anyway, at any rate, it still boggles my mind that some people can be so antagonistic toward such wonderful people. It seems to me that everyone should at least be able to see that they are sincere in their beliefs and not trying to "dupe" other people. They're just sharing what they truly believe which they believe is good, focusing primarily on trying to share things about our Savior and our Father in heaven and how we can become more like them.

Elder Packer has always been a favorite for me, followed by President Eyring and President Uchdorf and several others. I must confess the Elder Bednar did not impress me at first but as time passes I am gaining a new perspective and respect for him.as well as the rest of the Quorum of Twelve.

Edited April 11, 2013 by ERayR

[Closet Doubter]

I just had this pop into my head, thinking you may enjoy.

When I first started my journey back I was given a book of Joseph Smith teachings. It was a small, old, blue book that was falling apart. You could almost smell that it was an antique. It may have been old, that did not deter me from feeling like the spirit was permeating from the book. As a man who had said vicous things about the chuch, I started feeling guilty as I felt the Spirit, yet at that time an immense joy filled me. It made me desire to start reading immediatly. As I browsed not reading many words just turning pages a miracle occured. I flipped through about three different pages. Feeling as though the spirit was guiding me. Then I turned to a section, laid eyes on the section title and knew the Lord loved even the most vile sinners, even myself.

That was in response to Brother Phelps who was partially responsible for incarcerating Joseph Smith Jr. in Liberty Jail. Brother Phelps put Joseph in jail for four months. Yet, Joseph Smith Jr. the Lord's mouthpiece on earth was able to forgive him immediatly. Signing off with, "Come on, dear brother, since the war is past, For friends at first, are friends again at last." Nothing had ever made me feel the love of God more then that amazing miracle. It was as if in that moment my soul was lifted from the pits of hell, a guilty conscious to the heights of heaven. For I knew at that moment, that the Lord forgived all men, loving them unconditionally, thereby receiving them back into his father's house to receive all his blessings.

Phelps's transgression is that he and others truthfully testified about the Danites (with the knowledge of the top church leadership including Joseph Smith) going on the offensive in Davies county where they had no legal jurisdiction. They had to leave Far West for fear of their lives. It was one of the battles in this Danite offensive that took the life of Captain Fearnot (David Patton, president of the 12).

[Brenda]

Pandorian, my ADD usually rebels against long posts, but yours held me all the way through. This life-long TBM loved it. Your frank honesty was like flinging open a window in a stuffy room. Thank you. You made my day.

[cursor]

I have serious issues with this form of proselytizing. How can it be right to attempt to spread truth through silly, staged showmanship?

[edit: added the YouTube video reference that was omitted from my original submission]

Edited April 11, 2013 by cursor

[Gillebre]

Loved your post, Pandorian!

[williamsmith]

Just a little background on me and why you should even care what I observe.

.........

Just some thoughts from an anonymous former apostate.

You echo much of of the same feelings and thoughts as I being ex anti and member, now forever in unless something actually convincing comes along, though don't see how it's possible given what I now know, feel, and see..

[Robert F. Smith]

I have serious issues with this form of proselytizing. How can it be right to attempt to spread truth through silly, staged showmanship?

[edit: added the YouTube video reference that was omitted from my original submission]

How about hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Plan of Salvation preached in a Protestant megachurch? From Joel Osteen, Sermon #551, "It's Only a Test,"

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPkKdQ-Y4h8

Edited April 12, 2013 by Robert F. Smith

[Calm]

I have serious issues with this form of proselytizing. How can it be right to attempt to spread truth through silly, staged showmanship?

I remember friends participating in pageants whenI was a youth, my sister especially. She loved it and I think it helped her bond with other church members in significant ways. For me...it would have been one long torture scene.

It apparently takes all kinds and different people find the truth in different ways.

[CASteinman]

It would probably get him banned from a number of threads were he posting here--speaking from experience. LOL

Maybe. You could test this. If you had a database of quotes from Boyd K Packer and used those as replies without attribution you could see if they get you banned. I think I will just watch though.

[CASteinman]

It's embarrassing to say I pay more attention to conference now than I ever have, in the past I was too busy getting my kids to listen or letting Saturday sort of slide, this past conference and the last few, I've listened to every one of the speakers. Weird, huh?

Good for you! It probably makes a big difference in how you feel inside and how you live your religion.

[CASteinman]

Phelps's transgression is that he and others truthfully testified about the Danites

Well.. so you imagine...

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Great post +10, but a question. You look like James T Kirk and Iowa is about 20 hours away...think I am on to something. Permission to come abroad?

[tyler90az]

Phelps's transgression is that he and others truthfully testified about the Danites (with the knowledge of the top church leadership including Joseph Smith) going on the offensive in Davies county where they had no legal jurisdiction. They had to leave Far West for fear of their lives. It was one of the battles in this Danite offensive that took the life of Captain Fearnot (David Patton, president of the 12).

My friend,

Does that make my story any less true or significant? Read it again, and let it sink into your heart. Then let the original post sink even deeper into your heart. What reason do we have to lie? Admittedly we both opposed the church for a period. And now we are testifying of the truth. That is two testimonies, impossible for anybody to come up with a reason why we would lie. By your own free will, if you read these and think, the light will shine, holding the truth back no more.

If you read my literature and watch my video I will read and watch yours. Rather we each read it is on our honor.

https://www.lds.org/...of-god?lang=eng

Your friend,

Tyler

Edited April 14, 2013 by tyler90az

[Stargazer]

Phelps's transgression is that he and others truthfully testified about the Danites (with the knowledge of the top church leadership including Joseph Smith) going on the offensive in Davies county where they had no legal jurisdiction. They had to leave Far West for fear of their lives. It was one of the battles in this Danite offensive that took the life of Captain Fearnot (David Patton, president of the 12).

Interesting.

Actually, the Danites might very well have been perfectly legal. After all, it wasn't a standing army that was raised in order to suppress the LDS Church, it was the militia. And what is the militia? Why, it is (or was) all the males old enough and capable of bearing arms. If one part of the citizenry is moved to rise up in arms to oppress another part of the citizenry, would it not be perfectly legal for the oppressed to rise up in arms to oppose them? Especially when the first part of the citizenry is rising up in injustice? aka

"mob rule".

As it turns out, I don't know that much about the Danites, and neither, I suspect, do you.

[Stargazer]

Here it is, embedded: living beneath your privileges...

[media=]

I heard this story long long ago, except in the version I originally heard, it was an elderly lady who had saved all her life to take the cruise. I like Elder Uchtdorf's version better.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Stargazer