Entitlement Mentality And Grownup Children Living At Home

[ERayR]

I lost my job nine months before I was to start law school. My wife and I had two small children at the time, and the chances of me getting a job knowing ahead of time that I would have to quit in a few months were . . . slim. So I asked my parents if I could move in with them for the months before law school and during the first year. I told them we would then move out. My parents graciously allowed this. We paid for our own food and expenses, but it was a tremendous blessing to not have to pay rent, utilities, etc. At the end of the first year of law school, we prepared to move out. We had three children by this point. My parents, however, were reluctant to part with their grandchildren and their beloved daughter-in-law (they sorta liked me, but it was really about my wife and children), so they asked us to stay. We ended up staying for 3 1/2 years. I graduated with a significantly lower debt load because of it, and I will always be grateful to my parents for that.

-Smac

Your parents are that way too. Many, many years ago when I was first married my wife and I had a disagreement and I made the rookie mistake of complaining to my mother. She promptly told me I had better change my attitude or I would wear out my welcome in her home. It is surely good to have parents that care enough to help in all ways.

[bjw]

I just had to respond to this thread because it kinda hits home with me. I have lived at home ever since I came home from college, which has beeen about 15 years. It has just been financially effective and helpful to the family. Even though my folks didn't charge me rent, I still paid the bills and groceries and made sure that I pulled my weight. Now with my grandfather dead and my dad divorced, my dad and grandmother are sharing the house with me and we pretty much split all expenses three ways.

We always had the belief that children should always be welcome to move back into home, but that everybody should be willing to carry their own weight as long as they are working. When I was between jobs nobody ever expected me to pay anything. I think when people are working they should be willing to go in on the expenses.

[MorningStar]

Tell him he has to be a full contributor by age 12 otherwise he has to remain a kid for a few more years.

I haven't bought a house yet, so I think he's thinking he would like to enjoy living in a house a while longer (because he's pretty sure we'll have one by the time he graduates). I don't blame him. I would like to be able to help my kids get a house earlier in life. It has been hard on my husband especially.

[pmccombs1]

I suppose you are referring to able bodied and fully functioning children. Some children need more ....

Of course, there are always exceptions.

[Jude2]

My son and his lovely wife live with us. If they move out and take my two little ones with them I think my heart would break. His wife works and he’s a stay home daddy. We have a handicapped foster son who requires a lot of work and time so my son helps us with him for part of their rent. We share cooking and cleaning, we've just fallen into a pattern which works.

[Deborah]

I think there is a kind way to let your child know in advance what you expect and that it is for their own good to have a good work ethic in and out of the home.

I agree, and you can adjust the rules to fit the needs. When my youngest daughter wanted to drop out of high school because of problems she was having in school and other things (it's a long ugly story) I agreed with certain stipulations. First she had to take the GED (and since dropping out wasn't because she was dumb, she was too smart, she aced that), she had to get a job and help pay utilities and food. She did everything.

When my son with all his 7 kids moved in he didn't have a job and I only made him buy food (and his wife fixed all the meals). He helped a lot by doing things around the house. When he got work I gradually increased what I expected and what they paid until I decided they could stay in the house and I got a one bedroom apartment (which I absolutely love). The house would have been too big for me if they had moved out but was too crowded with all of us there.

But going back to what MS said, you do need to set the expectations from the beginning and if you are already stuck in the situation you need to set a deadline for them to contribute or move out. It's a little more complicated if there are grandkids involved because you want to help them. Sometimes, QB, you have to let them go and realize they might get lost for awhile and you not hear from them but let them know your door is always open when they are ready to take responsibility. The prodigal in the parable had to wake up to his situation before he went home but he eventually went home.

[Questing Beast]

@Deborah: I don't have a problem "letting them go", because I will always welcome a reunion.

It's the level or personal responsibility that I have difficulty defining in our case. Our son is in his thirties, has lived on his own since he was 18, is a Marine vet, and currently lives in his SUV, i.e. is homeless. He has recently taken to visiting home for increasingly longer stretches without feeling that he should pay anything for "visits". He insists he does not live here, even when he spends over half of his time here and goes nowhere, playing on his computer and watching videos, etc. He balks at doing "chores", and he has no job, no regular job anyway; I think he does temporary work when he feels the need. He's very silent about his life and does not want to talk about any details. So the warning flags are up, "entitlement mentality" seems to be firmly developing here, yet he denies it. I have made our concerns very clear to the whole family. Now I have decided that "visits" will no longer by charged anything. But "visits" will be clearly defined as to length and frequency. I got our son to define how long a "visit" would be, before he defined it as "living here" himself; he said, "one month, then I would consider that I am living at home and need to get a job to help pay for my part". I said fine to that. And further stipulated that no less (but probably more) time than a full month would have to be between "visits" in order for one month stays at home to not be considered loafing for free. We'll see how well this arrangement works out!...

Edited March 30, 2013 by Questing Beast

[thesometimesaint]

@Deborah: I don't have a problem "letting them go", because I will always welcome a reunion.

It's the level or personal responsibility that I have difficulty defining in our case. Our son is in his thirties, has lived on his own since he was 18, is a Marine vet, and currently lives in his SUV, i.e. is homeless. He has recently taken to visiting home for increasingly longer stretches without feeling that he should pay anything for "visits". He insists he does not live here, even when he spends over half of his time here and goes nowhere, playing on his computer and watching videos, etc. He balks at doing "chores", and he has no job, no regular job anyway; I think he does temporary work when he feels the need. He's very silent about his life and does not want to talk about any details. So the warning flags are up, "entitlement mentality" seems to be firmly developing here, yet he denies it. I have made our concerns very clear to the whole family. Now I have decided that "visits" will no longer by charged anything. But "visits" will be clearly defined as to length and frequency. I got our son to define how long a "visit" would be, before he defined it as "living here" himself; he said, "one month, then I would consider that I am living at home and need to get a job to help pay for my part". I said fine to that. And further stipulated that no less (but probably more) time than a full month would have to be between "visits" in order for one month stays at home to not be considered loafing for free. We'll see how well this arrangement works out!...

Your son is in a serious mental health crises right now. All I can recommend is you do whatever you can to get the help he needs.

[MorningStar]

@Deborah: I don't have a problem "letting them go", because I will always welcome a reunion.

It's the level or personal responsibility that I have difficulty defining in our case. Our son is in his thirties, has lived on his own since he was 18, is a Marine vet, and currently lives in his SUV, i.e. is homeless. He has recently taken to visiting home for increasingly longer stretches without feeling that he should pay anything for "visits". He insists he does not live here, even when he spends over half of his time here and goes nowhere, playing on his computer and watching videos, etc. He balks at doing "chores", and he has no job, no regular job anyway; I think he does temporary work when he feels the need. He's very silent about his life and does not want to talk about any details. So the warning flags are up, "entitlement mentality" seems to be firmly developing here, yet he denies it. I have made our concerns very clear to the whole family. Now I have decided that "visits" will no longer by charged anything. But "visits" will be clearly defined as to length and frequency. I got our son to define how long a "visit" would be, before he defined it as "living here" himself; he said, "one month, then I would consider that I am living at home and need to get a job to help pay for my part". I said fine to that. And further stipulated that no less (but probably more) time than a full month would have to be between "visits" in order for one month stays at home to not be considered loafing for free. We'll see how well this arrangement works out!...

I would tell him if he is visiting, he is a guest, and I expect him to be a considerate guest because I'm not a hotel. I'm not going to wash his bedding, fold his towels, and put the paper strip over the toilet to show I cleaned it. A considerate guest will offer to buy food, cook meals, clean up, etc. Chores are for children. An adult automatically does their share.

[3DOP]

Hi all: I wonder what your attitude/policy is toward grownup children living at home: do you charge them for the expenses they cause? Do you charge them a weekly, or monthly, "rent"? Or do you think that children staying at home or returning, have a free place to park their lives? This is a very prevalent trend in society today, kids "camping" on their parents. I think you can tell what my attitude is already....

Monthly rent. If they are grown and at home they should ordinarily be a financial asset. We have made an exception for a daughter who accrued student loan debts. We encouraged her to come home without owing rent in order to get her loans paid off. We are also on the hook for some of those loans, so we have a financial interest in making sure she keeps up.

Edited March 30, 2013 by 3DOP

[Questing Beast]

Your son is in a serious mental health crises right now. All I can recommend is you do whatever you can to get the help he needs.

We don't "get him" anything. He's an adult and gets his own things, including help if he decides he wants/needs it. He is very far from admitting that he needs anything/anyone to help him in any way. We knew when he was a teen that he has some kind of "learning disability". We had him tested, and one psychologist recommended a mood-altering drug prescription. We already knew of the pitfalls of serotonin-based drugs, e.g. Prozac. So we put the decision onto our son: and he chose to remain "drug free". He also tested as having a superior IQ, but he learns very slowly and methodically. One of his most highly developed personality traits is an aversion to being treated as a child or dependent. He has ideas about how family adults should treat each other, and any raising of the subject about "children at home" punches his buttons. Yet he mooches. This is possibly because of a long habit of making his limited resources extend as far as possible, such that any opportunity to obtain food or anything else for free is taken full advantage of. Thus we, his parents, and siblings, are wary of being taken advantage of; not that we can't give what he wants/needs, but are we doing him any favors by giving, when he should be changing his life to be more independent in physical things as he flatters himself that he is in all things?...

[thesometimesaint]

QB:

We can't force others to get the help they need. Just like we can lead a horse to water, but we can't make it drink. However we can salt the oats.

[rpn]

Tell him to find a neurologist or neuro-psych that does QEET and do that. For some with learning disabilities that helps them get their mind more ordered, and I personally know of people whose PTSD was reduced after having it). If the issue is a mental health or disability issue, you should require that he seek and participate in interventions to address those issues as a condition of your help. Otherwise, you are helping him avoid it. And most people who are having some kind of emotional/mental health issue are self-medicating, therefore random drug and alcohol testing is often also called for (google DOT drug/alcohol test kits or look at some of the smartphone testing now that will show actual blood alcohol levels.

Sometimes it is better for someone to be homeless for a time and accept the help that is provided for homeless people, because families cannot reach the people that need help. (But I'm not sure vets come into this category: their's is usually a PTSD issue and other issues that manifest in a way that hitting bottom doesn't apply in the same way.)

[Stone holm]

Having grown children live with parents and grandparents has, from what I can tell, been a norm for a great deal of the history of Europeans.

Sometimes, perhaps when there were great opportunities or great prosperity, this norm has been changed to earlier emancipation. Other times, it has been nearly a life-long practice.

I see nothing unholy or horrible about having children and parents remain together -- and I see a slight bit that is not as good about our modern approach to things.

I gave you a bump on that and I see I wasn't the only one to do so, several of my adult kids, and other other young adult couples have lived with us. If times were tough for us they helped out with food or expenses, but sometimes not and I do not regret it a bit. I think our society would be a lot better of if we had greater generational overlap in our homes, and didn't get hung up on this anti-freeloading nonsense. It is incredibly wasteful for each couple to have their own home, and learning to live together is very important to developing most Christian virtues. No mention is made of Christ establishing His own home or paying rent, would we consider Him a freeloader if He moved in?

[CASteinman]

I gave you a bump on that and I see I wasn't the only one to do so, several of my adult kids, and other other young adult couples have lived with us. If times were tough for us they helped out with food or expenses, but sometimes not and I do not regret it a bit. I think our society would be a lot better of if we had greater generational overlap in our homes, and didn't get hung up on this anti-freeloading nonsense. It is incredibly wasteful for each couple to have their own home, and learning to live together is very important to developing most Christian virtues. No mention is made of Christ establishing His own home or paying rent, would we consider Him a freeloader if He moved in?

While I do not think Christ is a good example for this, given his unusual calling, I gave you a bump because I agree with you all in all. I see no harm in large homes with intergenerational family structures. In fact, I think it should be encouraged -- but unfortunately, it is not. I think there was good to be had in the days when families were larger and closer. Its not how we do things now.

Edited March 31, 2013 by CASteinman

[Stone holm]

While I do not think Christ is a good example for this, given his unusual calling, I gave you a bump because I agree with you all in all. I see no harm in large homes with intergenerational family structures. In fact, I think it should be encouraged -- but unfortunately, it is not. I think there was good to be had in the days when families were larger and closer. Its not how we do things now.

One of the prophets, not sure which one -- I think it was Joseph F. Smith -- made a comment about that he thought that the family homes which had been built by the family should stay in the family with each generation taking over, which I think also implies some generational overlap, although he was talking about the structures themselves, unfortunately so far have not been able to get any of my numerous progeny to bite on that idea. There is some time a humorous irony when we sing the Families Can Be Together Forever -- and you look around at members and you know they can't stand their siblings and don't get along with their parents, I remember one teenager at a Fast and Testimony Meeting confessing that yeah she knew the doctrine, but it sounded kind of like hell to her...lol...seriously, bouncing your kids out?

[Calm]

My daughter in law has specifically rejected the idea because she wants a house that is her own, not one that has the vibe of me or her mom. And there is no way that my daughter would be able to handle the house on her own....she is more likely to move in with her brother if something happens to us. But then we didn't build this house and if it weren't for the ward, would be happy to move out of it.

[thesometimesaint]

All my kids and grand-kids live within 10 miles of us. There isn't a week that goes by that we don't see everyone of them.

[Maidservant]

Your son is in a serious mental health crises right now.

Honestly, this is the first thing that came to my mind as well. I don't know what your responsibility is in relationship to this, but when you say he is having entitlement mentality, what I see is that he not functional.

What I mean by that is:

I have and always will have mental and emotional challenges (which are really physical challenges of my brain, cells and chemical molecules that alter my mental and emotional states).

However, in the past I have been non-functional as a result of these challenges. I literally would sit in a chair all day and I did not know how or what to do to order my life in the way that a normal adult would.* I was also unaware of my non-functionality, as no one around me had a way of dealing with my challenges and no one could teach me. I also had addictive behaviors that related to media and other items (among many, many other things). (* when I say didn't know how, it's hard to explain this, because I could, say, read an informational textbook with information about what to do, but I was incapable of acting on it)

After a long, long journey to this day, and one that continues, I am now functional at least in a basic sense (sometimes I still wonder). I pro-actively use techniques, methods, supports, nutrition, etc etc etc etc in order keep myself moving along as a human being and an adult, but this is a daily, conscious activity on my part and I can never just 'rest' into natural living because there is no such thing for me.

It's true that for your son his greatest obstacle may be an awareness of his challenges and acceptance of them (and for you, too, as a family member), because we are much more comfortable to discussing choices (entitlement mentality or whatever we think the choice problem is) and we feel that using an illness model (my son is sick) is somehow a failure or insufficient on whatever level (and which is why I normally use the word "challenge" instead of "sick" because I prefer not to give that word to it either). Awareness and acceptance is necessary, of course, before being able to address issues further towards healing.

Of course, even if everything I say accurately applies to your son--the question still becomes, is that any of your concern as another adult (parent) and even if willing, what could you possibly do about it if he wasn't inclined to hear about this and help himself?

To give just one of the telling reasons I see in your description of your son as experiencing non-functional mental or emotional challenge is because that no human being would choose to live in an SUV. It's not a choice problem. There's something actually blocking his function that does not permit him to have the ability to change his circumstance.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Maidservant

[Stone holm]

Honestly, this is the first thing that came to my mind as well. I don't know what your responsibility is in relationship to this, but when you say he is having entitlement mentality, what I see is that he not functional.

What I mean by that is:

I have and always will have mental and emotional challenges (which are really physical challenges of my brain, cells and chemical molecules that alter my mental and emotional states).

However, in the past I have been non-functional as a result of these challenges. I literally would sit in a chair all day and I did not know how or what to do to order my life in the way that a normal adult would.* I was also unaware of my non-functionality, as no one around me had a way of dealing with my challenges and no one could teach me. I also had addictive behaviors that related to media and other items (among many, many other things). (* when I say didn't know how, it's hard to explain this, because I could, say, read an informational textbook with information about what to do, but I was incapable of acting on it)

After a long, long journey to this day, and one that continues, I am now functional at least in a basic sense (sometimes I still wonder). I pro-actively use techniques, methods, supports, nutrition, etc etc etc etc in order keep myself moving along as a human being and an adult, but this is a daily, conscious activity on my part and I can never just 'rest' into natural living because there is no such thing for me.

It's true that for your son his greatest obstacle may be an awareness of his challenges and acceptance of them (and for you, too, as a family member), because we are much more comfortable to discussing choices (entitlement mentality or whatever we think the choice problem is) and we feel that using an illness model (my son is sick) is somehow a failure or insufficient on whatever level (and which is why I normally use the word "challenge" instead of "sick" because I prefer not to give that word to it either). Awareness and acceptance is necessary, of course, before being able to address issues further towards healing.

Of course, even if everything I say accurately applies to your son--the question still becomes, is that any of your concern as another adult (parent) and even if willing, what could you possibly do about it if he wasn't inclined to hear about this and help himself?

To give just one of the telling reasons I see in your description of your son as experiencing non-functional mental or emotional challenge is because that no human being would choose to live in an SUV. It's not a choice problem. There's something actually blocking his function that does not permit him to have the ability to change his circumstance.

"Entitlement" is a word which Fox News has indoctrinated America with, it is not in accordance with the teachings of Ayn Rand...whose thinking is close to scriptural for some until they discover she was anti-Christian as well...

[thesometimesaint]

"Entitlement" is a word which Fox News has indoctrinated America with, it is not in accordance with the teachings of Ayn Rand...whose thinking is close to scriptural for some until they discover she was anti-Christian as well...

Ms. Rand was the embodiment of "Entitlement", but only for herself.

[Lightbearer]

I believe that parents and children should love one another and care for one another no matter what age they are. I would never "kick out" my son just because he has reached the "legal age" of adulthood. The only thing that I would require is that he would keep the commandments of God and the "house rules" meaning that he would not abuse me or my wife, or do anything illegal or immoral, also he would have to let me know when he was expecting to come home. (In other words he could stay out as late as he likes as long as I know when he would return and where he is.) This was my rule when I was living at home until I got married and I liked the idea of someone knowing where I was and when I was expected to be home so that if I did not return help could be got. I think very few adults would choose to "mooch" under these circumstances. Life is hard and it is part of my baptismal covenant to "bear each others burdens that they may be light." I believe that is the spirit of the Gospel of Christ. I would never charge my child "rent" and hope that when I am unable to care for myself instead of being "kicked out" into a nursing home I would be be cared for as long as they are able. We are required to give of our substance to the poor and needy and I would think our own family should take presedence in this regard. I think the Lord reminded us of this principle in the Book of Mormon:

"And ye will not suffer your children that they go hungry, or naked; neither will ye suffer that they transgress the laws of God, and fight and quarrel one with another, and serve the devil, who is the master of sin, or who is the evil spirit which hath been spoken of by our fathers, he being an enemy to all righteousness. But ye will teach them to walk in the ways of truth and soberness; ye will teach them to love one another, and to serve one another. And also, ye yourselves will succor those that stand in need of your succor; ye will administer of your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to perish. Perhaps thou shalt say: The man has brought upon himself his misery; therefore I will stay my hand, and will not give unto him of my food, nor impart unto him of my substance that he may not suffer, for his punishments are just— But I say unto you, O man, whosoever doeth this the same hath great cause to repent; and except he repenteth of that which he hath done he perisheth forever, and hath no interest in the kingdom of God." (Book of Mormon | Mosiah 4:14-18)

He did not give an age cut-off in the above scripture about children. I think this reference to beggars not only applies to others but to members of our own family. So we are indeed our brothers keeper and we always will be parents to our children.

I think the cultural "entitlement mentality" has come from the political government not from "over protective families" in fact when one desires assistance from the Church the first question that is asked is that if we have asked help of our families first! The government has no such questions, they are ever so eager to gain greater political power by producing more who are beholden to the government.

I think if we ever become a Zion society it will begin in our families and will spread through society in living the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not in madates from the political government. Just as the Kingdom of God (Political government) will grow out of the Church and it's members living righteously with their familes.

[KevinG]

I consecrate with my children and they consecrate with me. As long as anyone needs shelter and food they are welcome. As long as they have the capacity to do so they help with the running of the household including some very sweet charitable actions like paying for little sisters dance lessons or brothers Scout camp.

There are too many of us sharing resources for anyone to get very entitled.

[Ahab]

We don't "get him" anything. He's an adult and gets his own things, including help if he decides he wants/needs it. He is very far from admitting that he needs anything/anyone to help him in any way. We knew when he was a teen that he has some kind of "learning disability". We had him tested, and one psychologist recommended a mood-altering drug prescription. We already knew of the pitfalls of serotonin-based drugs, e.g. Prozac. So we put the decision onto our son: and he chose to remain "drug free". He also tested as having a superior IQ, but he learns very slowly and methodically. One of his most highly developed personality traits is an aversion to being treated as a child or dependent. He has ideas about how family adults should treat each other, and any raising of the subject about "children at home" punches his buttons. Yet he mooches. This is possibly because of a long habit of making his limited resources extend as far as possible, such that any opportunity to obtain food or anything else for free is taken full advantage of. Thus we, his parents, and siblings, are wary of being taken advantage of; not that we can't give what he wants/needs, but are we doing him any favors by giving, when he should be changing his life to be more independent in physical things as he flatters himself that he is in all things?...

Teach him what your idea of "mooching" is and how that equates to you providing those things for him. If he prides himself on being independent as much as you say he does then he'll be running into the wall of you flat out telling him that he is indeed "mooching" in your eyes when he does that. From there it will be up to you to decide, together, what to do about his mooching. You can either accept it, as you have been, or you can tell him that you do not accept it as the proper behavior for an adult. You won't ever be able to force him to pay you any money, or to do anything actually, but you can tell him what you approve of and what you do not approve of so that he knows when he is stepping out of bounds.

I'd be sad to be in your shoes. Hopefully you'll both be able to connect on some level while still being charitable to each other.

[Ahab]

I consecrate with my children and they consecrate with me. As long as anyone needs shelter and food they are welcome. As long as they have the capacity to do so they help with the running of the household including some very sweet charitable actions like paying for little sisters dance lessons or brothers Scout camp.

There are too many of us sharing resources for anyone to get very entitled.

Looks to me like all of you are entitled in the best way possible, voluntarily and charitably.

Entitlement isn't necessarily a bad thing, as some people seem to think it is. There's a good way to be entitled, and a bad way to be entitled. If some people voluntarily consecrate their property/talents/abilities charitably to each other, what could be better than that? There isn't a better way for people to live together, and there is no need to live apart from the people we love the most.

It would take a pretty big house to comfortably accomodate a lot of people, though, unless everyone enjoys being scrunched together. In a place like Downton Abbey there's enough room for a bunch of people and there doesn't necessarily need to be a division between so-called upper and lower classes. Everyone could be of the same class while doing some kind of work they enjoy doing, and even doing no work at all on some occasions so they would still have some amount of play time.

It's only when someone else needs to do for us what we can do for ourselves that there is a problem, unless someone voluntarily and charitably chooses to do that for us. But even in that exception we should do something to show our appreciation for that other person who is doing that for us, and I mean more than just saying "Thank you". We all have some talent/ability, and those who we appreciate most should receive at least some if not all of whatever we can do for them.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Ahab