"Preaching The Same Jesus"

[randyj]

I understand. But I can't let that deter me from trying to build bridges between Saints.

I agree completely with this sentiment!! I believe your motives and intentions are sincere. Mr. Ridenours....not so much. Nice talking with you! We still need to try to meet up for lunch!!! I would love to let you "build a bridge" and buy me lunch!!! hahaha!

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I agree completely with this sentiment!! I believe your motives and intentions are sincere. Mr. Ridenours....not so much. Nice talking with you! We still need to try to meet up for lunch!!! I would love to let you "build a bridge" and buy me lunch!!! hahaha!

Well, I have a job interview on Monday- if I get it I might just take you up on that! So get to prayin'

Sorry about the fumble on getting you and McKay together. I'll have to work on that again.

[The Nehor]

I worship The son of Elohiem...is there any others.

I am also a son of Eloiheim. I do not encourage you to worship me though.

[Kenngo1969]

I am also a son of Eloiheim. I do not encourage you to worship me though.

Why not?

[Kenngo1969]

Sounds like a perfect place for a Homer Simpson emoticon :-)

Jim

Doh! (Those "unsex" names ... Terry, Chris, Lynn ... will get ya every time!)

[Kenngo1969]

A few years back I had an opportunity to dialogue with Mr. Ridenhour on the old CoC discussion board. Over the course of about a year or so...I learned a few things about him. I learned from him that he had joined the LDS church here in Indep. Mo. I learned from him that he had voluntarily resigned his membership in the LDS church because of some "differences" that had developed between his leaders and his desire to "reach out" to members of the LDS church to recruit them if you will into his "bridge building" apparatus. I learned from him that he never had been converted to the faith claims of the LDS church. Why he still chose to join and then voluntarily separate himself later when things didn't pan out as he hoped they would as far as his "bridge building" enterprise was concerned...I will leave that up to the individual.

Mr. Ridenhour is a good man, but he also has his own agenda. Bottom line...nothing is ever as cut and dried as what they may appear to be. Buyer beware!

I understand where you're coming from on this, however it's always a red flag when someone purposely misleads someone (LDS Missionaries) into thinking they're sincere in their testimony of the church and desire to be baptized, when in fact...all the person was desireous of was gaining access to the LDS membership to further his personal agenda. As soon as his leaders realized what his intent was, that was when Mr. Ridenhour decided it was time to resign his membership. That is the issue I have with Mr. Ridenhour.

I agree completely with this sentiment!! I believe your motives and intentions are sincere. Mr. Ridenours...not so much. Nice talking with you! We still need to try to meet up for lunch!!! I would love to let you "build a bridge" and buy me lunch!!! hahaha!

If you weren't in the room when any decisions were made regarding Dr. Ridenhour's erstwhile membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints may have been made, and if you're otherwise not privy to his dealings with the Church and its leaders, I'm not sure you're qualified to speak on the matter. (And if you are privy to those dealings and to the back story behind his erstwhile membership, you shouldn't be talking about them.) While you're entitled to your own opinions regarding his motivations behind what he has done, as long as he is not here to speak for (and to defend) himself, I'll take what you say about the matter with much more than a single grain of salt, thank you very much! (Now, where did I put that salt shaker ... ? Naw, on second thought, that ain't gonna do it: where's the container with which I fill up the salt shaker? )

As for a Book-of-Mormon-believing Baptist minister, half a loaf (or more!) is better than none, thank you very much! I'll take what I can get: which do you think we should prefer, (1) the Southern Baptist preacher who stands outside the LDS Conference Center each April and October and yells through his megaphone that Mormons are going to hell; or (2) a Southern Baptist preacher who believes in the Book of Mormon and works to build bridges between his fellow believers and our fellow Latter-day Saints? Frankly, you can question #2's motives all you want, and I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll take #2 every day and twice on Sunday!

[randyj]

If you weren't in the room when any decisions were made regarding Dr. Ridenhour's erstwhile membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints may have been made, and if you're otherwise not privy to his dealings with the Church and its leaders, I'm not sure you're qualified to speak on the matter. (And if you are privy to those dealings and to the back story behind his erstwhile membership, you shouldn't be talking about them.) While you're entitled to your own opinions regarding his motivations behind what he has done, as long as he is not here to speak for (and to defend) himself, I'll take what you say about the matter with much more than a single grain of salt, thank you very much! (Now, where did I put that salt shaker ... ? Naw, on second thought, that ain't gonna do it: where's the container with which I fill up the salt shaker? )

As for a Book-of-Mormon-believing Baptist minister, half a loaf (or more!) is better than none, thank you very much! I'll take what I can get: which do you think we should prefer, (1) the Southern Baptist preacher who stands outside the LDS Conference Center each April and October and yells through his megaphone that Mormons are going to hell; or (2) a Southern Baptist preacher who believes in the Book of Mormon and works to build bridges between his fellow believers and our fellow Latter-day Saints? Frankly, you can question #2's motives all you want, and I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll take #2 every day and twice on Sunday!

Perhaps you missed the part where I said I learned from "him" of the facts surrounding his disengenious reasons for joining the church....and his agenda. I think a persons character, especially when one purports to be a minister of the Gospel...should be one of honesty and integrity. In his quest for gaining access to what he felt was a "ripe field ready to harvest" he encountered some pushback from his leaders...and rightly so. You see...he's not just a Baptist Minister who believes in the BoM..he's a Baptist Minister who purposely joined the LDS church under false pretenses... for no other reason than to promote his "angle". So no...I don't think a Baptist Minister with a half a loaf is better than none...when the half he has he allowed to go moldy....then he seeks to continue to break that bread with others. As far as his "building bridges" between his fellow believers and the LDS...perhaps he should be completely honest with respect to his past....because in this case...the past most definitely informs the present. As far as shedding light on his "erstwhile past membership" in the LDS church....I'm simply balancing the scales...helping to paint a more accurate picture so folks can make a more informed decision on whether or not they feel they can believe what he has to say.

[Anakin7]

I also understand from another individual on this board in the past who questioned if Lynn Riddenhour was realy a baptized member and attented the schools he claimed he went to. I give Lynn the benifit of the doubt.

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

[The Nehor]

Why not?

I love to travel but going places in a handbasket is uncomfortable.

[randyj]

I also understand from another individual on this board in the past who questioned if Lynn Riddenhour was realy a baptized member and attented the schools he claimed he went to. I give Lynn the benifit of the doubt.

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

There is no question regarding whether he joined the LDS church. It's a matter of record. As I say, what I know I learned from Mr. Ridenhour.

[Stargazer]

Doh! (Those "unsex" names ... Terry, Chris, Lynn ... will get ya every time!)

Yep. I used to think my own name, "Michael" was safe in that regard. And then there was the actress Michael Learned.

[Kenngo1969]

Perhaps you missed the part where I said I learned from "him" of the facts surrounding his disengenious reasons for joining the church....and his agenda.

If you're sure you have the whole story, more power to you. I doubt he confessed his sins to you. What I choose to share of any given experience I have had might vary depending on my audience and the other circumstances. Am I being "disingenuous"? I had a hard time on my mission. I had some companions (and members, for that matter) with whom I didn't get along very well, and I had a hard time reconciling my "willing spirit" and my "weak flesh." But none of that made it into the account of my mission which can be found here: http://www.lds.org/l...0004d82620aRCRD. Perhaps I was simply being disingenuous?

I think a persons character, especially when one purports to be a minister of the Gospel...should be one of honesty and integrity. In his quest for gaining access to what he felt was a "ripe field ready to harvest" he encountered some pushback from his leaders...and rightly so.

I do, too. Do you think my character is lacking because I didn't tell the "whole truth" about my mission?

You see...he's not just a Baptist Minister who believes in the BoM..he's a Baptist Minister who purposely joined the LDS church under false pretenses... for no other reason than to promote his "angle".

That's how you characterize what he did. How does he characterize it? Yeah ... I'd kinda like to hear it from the horse's mouth.

So no...I don't think a Baptist Minister with a half a loaf is better than none...when the half he has he allowed to go moldy....then he seeks to continue to break that bread with others.

I'm sorry you apparently feel that Father gives you bread, fish, and fruit when you ask Him for those things while giving your non-Mormon Christian brothers and sisters stones, serpents, thorns, and thistles when they ask Him for those things.

As far as his "building bridges" between his fellow believers and the LDS...perhaps he should be completely honest with respect to his past....because in this case...the past most definitely informs the present.

You say he's dishonest, and yet your fellow Mormon brothers and sisters don't seem to have as much of a problem associating with him as you think they should have. Why is that? Are they deluded, or are they disingenuous, too?

As far as shedding light on his "erstwhile past membership" in the LDS church....I'm simply balancing the scales...helping to paint a more accurate picture so folks can make a more informed decision on whether or not they feel they can believe what he has to say.

Putting your thumb on the other side of the scale is hardly what I'd call "balancing."

[Kenngo1969]

Yep. I used to think my own name, "Michael" was safe in that regard. And then there was the actress Michael Learned.

Parents who want boys apparently will do anything to see the silver lining in that supposedly-gray cloud! (Just kidding!)

[Calm]

How does he characterize it?

http://www.greaterthings.com/Ridenhour/Bio/baptized.htm

What I'm saying, I try to follow the Lord where He leads. He even led us among the LDS for awhile, but all the while I continued ministering in Baptist churches and elsewhere, even RLDS churches. While attending LDS services, however, we had some wonderful ministry moments. I had an arrangement with the local Bishop that I would continue ministering in other groups—both restoration and non-restoration. And I did. In order to teach and to carry out certain callings, the Bishop wanted me to become a baptized member. I did. Like Paul, I am willing to become "…all things to all men, that I might by all means save some, and this I do for the gospel’s sake…" In 1996 I was baptized. Why?It was never my intention to "become a Mormon" in order to join "the one true church." I became a member for ministry purposes, because I knew the Lord had led us there--knowing that our ministry would be temporary. And it was. We’re evangelists at heart. Thus, we rescinded our membership when our work was complete. And we left in good graces.

[Kenngo1969]

http://www.greaterth...io/baptized.htm

Thanks, Cal. While something tells me that RandyJ is going to persist in ascribing less-than-honorable motives to Dr. Ridenhour, that certainly does provide some needed perspective from his point of view.

[Calm]

I find it hard to imagine a mission president and/or bishop agreeing to baptize someone who said they were joining, not because they believe that the LDS faith is God's authorized church with his saving ordinances, but in order to provide a bridge with believers in the BoM, but not the Church itself.

It sounds like he saw himself as a minister to both those in the church and outside of it, a minister in the Protestant version, not LDS.

Now if he hadn't shared such information....

[randyj]

I find it hard to imagine a mission president and/or bishop agreeing to baptize someone who said they were joining, not because they believe that the LDS faith is God's authorized church with his saving ordinances, but in order to provide a bridge with believers in the BoM, but not the Church itself.

It sounds like he saw himself as a minister to both those in the church and outside of it, a minister in the Protestant version, not LDS.

Now if he hadn't shared such information....

I quite agree. Again...from the quote you provided.....shows his intent. So when he was interviewed for baptism by the missionaries and they ask the questions they ask....Mr. Ridenhour must have been able to perform some impressive ethical gymnastics in order to allow himself into being baptized into the church when he in fact knew he did not have a testimony of the faith claims of the church. So yes....disengenious indeed.....at a minimum. As an aside...I also know his Bishop quite well...and you are quite correct...his Bishop would never/and never did.... agree to such an "arrangement".

[randyj]

Thanks, Cal. While something tells me that RandyJ is going to persist in ascribing less-than-honorable motives to Dr. Ridenhour, that certainly does provide some needed perspective from his point of view.

It is what it is

[randyj]

Thanks, Cal. While something tells me that RandyJ is going to persist in ascribing less-than-honorable motives to Dr. Ridenhour, that certainly does provide some needed perspective from his point of view.

So I'm clear....I said it before, I will say it again now....Mr. Ridenhour is a good man. He's a Baptist Preacher...that is his profession. He needs to provide for his family. He simply came up with a particular "angle" on how to better provide for his family and he executed this unique agenda. He's gotten some traction off of it...so kudos to him. If people know about his relationship with the LDS church and why he joined and why he left....and they're good with it....more power to em! If the Bob Millets of the world know the details of his interactions with the church and are still inclined to have various events with him...good for them..and have at it. Matters not to me. What matters to me is simply that people know he never had a testimony of the Church which the Prophet Joseph gave his life to restore and in my mind....by doing what he did....he mocked that sacrifice. That's my issue. So there ya go.

[randyj]

Mr. Ridenhour says:

" What I'm saying, I try to follow the Lord where He leads. He even led us among the LDS for awhile, but all the while I continued ministering in Baptist churches and elsewhere, even RLDS churches. While attending LDS services, however, we had some wonderful ministry moments. I had an arrangement with the local Bishop that I would continue ministering in other groups—both restoration and non-restoration. And I did. In order to teach and to carry out certain callings, the Bishop wanted me to become a baptized member. I did. Like Paul, I am willing to become "…all things to all men, that I might by all means save some, and this I do for the gospel’s sake…" In 1996 I was baptized. Why?It was never my intention to "become a Mormon" in order to join "the one true church." I became a member for ministry purposes, because I knew the Lord had led us there--knowing that our ministry would be temporary. And it was. We’re evangelists at heart. Thus, we rescinded our membership when our work was complete. And we left in good graces".

Randy says.. "You see...he's not just a Baptist Minister who believes in the BoM..he's a Baptist Minister who purposely joined the LDS church under false pretenses... for no other reason than to promote his "angle".

Kenngo says.."That's how you characterize what he did. How does he characterize it? Yeah ... I'd kinda like to hear it from the horse's mouth."

Kenngo.....so now that you've heard it "from the horse's mouth" what say ye?

[Kenngo1969]

It is what it is

That's the most profound piece of tautological reasoning anybody's ever uttered on any subject ... I feel all warm and fuzzy inside!

[Kenngo1969]

... Kenngo.....so now that you've heard it "from the horse's mouth" what say ye?

..."

I know you want me to concede that your characterization of Mr. Ridenhour and of what he did is correct, but I'm not prepared to do that. So if you want to add me to your list of "People-an-Anonymous-Internet-Poster-Thinks-Are-Disingenuous," go right on ahead and do that, and I'll add you to the no-doubt-so-lengthy-it-borders-on-infinite list of "Anonymous-Internet-Posters-Who-Think-I'm-Disingenuous." There! We're even! Happy?

I think that the vast majority of people who sincerely apply Moroni's Promise will come to the conclusions that (1) The Book of Mormon is the Word of God; and (2) Ergo, Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God; and (3) The Church Christ restored through him is God's authorized Church and Kingdom on the Earth in these, the Latter days. To me, it makes no difference whether what spurs them to do so is the testimony of a Baptist minister who believes the Book of Mormon is inspired, or my testimony (or that of one of my fellow Saints) that the Book of Mormon is a genuine record of authentic ancient peoples that contains the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and was translated by the gift and power of God by a prophet who restored the Lord’s True Church to the earth.

It's interesting: every once in a while to go to Amazon and look at reactions to material which we both (indeed which most of the people who participate on the Board) could rightly characterize as "anti-Mormon." For example, though I haven't done so recently, I did so a few years ago with one of Ed Decker's more noted works. About nine of every ten reviews were pats on the back to Mr. Decker from his like-minded fellows: "Way to go, Ed! Thanks for telling the TRUTH about Mormons and Mormonism ..." You know the drill. But what I thought was most interesting was that perhaps one in ten or one in twenty of the reviews said something like, "I wanted to find out whether Mormonism is really as bad as you say it is, so I looked up the original sources/studied Mormonism for myself/etc., and ... I'm getting (or I got) baptized …” The Lord truly works in mysterious ways. If he can use someone like Ed Decker as his instrument (albeit unwittingly) to bring people into the Church of Jesus Christ, then why can’t he use someone like Lynn Ridenhour? (If you want to put Ed Decker and Lynn Ridenhour in the same class, go ahead; but I think that would say much more about YOU than it would about either of THEM …)

[Kenngo1969]

I quite agree. Again...from the quote you provided.....shows his intent. So when he was interviewed for baptism by the missionaries and they ask the questions they ask....Mr. Ridenhour must have been able to perform some impressive ethical gymnastics in order to allow himself into being baptized into the church when he in fact knew he did not have a testimony of the faith claims of the church. So yes....disengenious indeed.....at a minimum. As an aside...I also know his Bishop quite well...and you are quite correct...his Bishop would never/and never did.... agree to such an "arrangement".

The only thing I read that Mr. Ridenhour wrote is that he felt led by the spirit to unite himself with the Church of Jesus Christ. The shrill shrieks of "He lied ..." and "He was disingenuous ..." and "He never had a testimony ..." are coming from your mouth, not his. Perhaps I missed his confession of his multitude of these serious sins. Perhaps you can point it out to me. P.S.: He says that he and his wife resigned their membership and left on good terms. Why, if they were dishonest at the outset, was no action taken against their membership, instead?

[Kenngo1969]

...from the quote you [Calmoriah] provided.....shows his intent.

It doesn't show what you're claiming it shows without a good deal of interpolation from you. But thanks fer playin'!

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I can see where Randy is coming from having never sat down personally with Lynn.

I have spent time with Lynn at events and one-on-one in his home. Though somewhat misguided in his reasons for joining the LDS Church, I don't believe he did it in any attempt to deceive. Coming from a Baptist background, I believe he was somewhat ignorant of the understanding that LDS, especially ardent ones like Randy, have of church membership.