Christian Mormon Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Intriguing. Some of our Christian brethren hold it against us as Latter-day Saints that we declare Christ to be the first of God's creation.I wonder what they say of Christ's own testimony, as reported by John the Revelator(Rev. 3:14): "These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God."
halconero Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Define they...I find Christian belief amongst its adherents (if not creeds) with regards to the nature of Deity, creation and atonement as varied as the geographical locales in which they're found. I would describe almost 100% of the individuals I taught as a missionary as heretics according to the official creeds of their own church. 2
The Nehor Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Define they...I find Christian belief amongst its adherents (if not creeds) with regards to the nature of Deity, creation and atonement as varied as the geographical locales in which they're found. I would describe almost 100% of the individuals I taught as a missionary as heretics according to the official creeds of their own church.This.If there is one thing most faiths need it is a good old-fashioned inquisition to weed out the heretics.
Freedom Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Intriguing. Some of our Christian brethren hold it against us as Latter-day Saints that we declare Christ to be the first of God's creation.I wonder what they say of Christ's own testimony, as reported by John the Revelator(Rev. 3:14): "These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God."This to me means he is the beginning, in that , he started it all. He is the beginning and the end. I don't read this as having anything to do with him being the first born.
Nathair/|\ Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 This.If there is one thing most faiths need it is a good old-fashioned inquisition to weed out the heretics.Then what am I supposed to do? 1
The Nehor Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Then what am I supposed to do?Good question. I see two options.1. Die as a heretic.2. Start a counter-inquisition to root out and destroy orthodoxy in all forms.Both sound fun to me. 1
theplains Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Intriguing. Some of our Christian brethren hold it against us as Latter-day Saints that we declare Christ to be the first of God's creation.Israel and Ephraim are also referred to as the firstborn (Exodus 4:22; Jeremiah 31:9).Regards,Jim
Duncan Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Then what am I supposed to do?heck, you could always become a weatherman 3
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Define they...I find Christian belief amongst its adherents (if not creeds) with regards to the nature of Deity, creation and atonement as varied as the geographical locales in which they're found. I would describe almost 100% of the individuals I taught as a missionary as heretics according to the official creeds of their own church.Knowing the language and the meaning is different.
Calm Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 heck, you could always become a weathermanYou just wanted to post that video, didn't you. 2
Duncan Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 You just wanted to post that video, didn't you. I have waited for sometime!!!!
williamsmith Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 This to me means he is the beginning, in that , he started it all. He is the beginning and the end. I don't read this as having anything to do with him being the first born.Not quite.14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the afaithful and true witness, thebbeginning of the ccreation of God;1. The statement afterword is to the angel (aka Bishop) of the church of the Laodiceans.2. The things being stated are by Amen (aka Christ) also likely indicating the seriousness of the statement,3. Now describing the "attributes" of that person making the statement "the faithful and true witness" and the "beginning of the creation of God".In other words, the sentence directly states that Christ is the first in the creations of God. There is no way getting around what it says.Yes, LDS don't look at Christ as a "creation" even though we are accused of that, but the scriptures do make clear in our theology that he is the First Born of the Father (spiritually speaking), so in that sense he would be a creation.There are some Bible Translations and versions which instead of using the word "beginning" (most don't however) use Head, Originator, Ruler, or Source to try and say that is the correct word to be used, in the sense of Christ being the main guy who's heading the creation, the ruler of all, etc.Looking over all the documentation, there appears to be disagreement on what is actually to be said and meant there. Most seem to be going in this later interpretation, but the actual truth might in fact be "both" interpretations are correct, especially looking over Colossians 1:15. While the verses do seem to indicate formost his supremacy over all creation, it clearly also indicates that he was in fact the first of creation, making him the firstborn, etc.In Jewish tradition, the meaning of the "Firstborn" would not be lost to them (and is likely where the tradition came from). Thus, both interpretations together would be the correct answer.
Freedom Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 In other words, the sentence directly states that Christ is the first in the creations of God. There is no way getting around what it says.in your opinion it does. I am unconvinced.
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