It'S Not The Mormon Church!

[Nathair/|\]

I don't think the capitalized "the" is a very big deal at all.

It's just bad grammar.

[Sky]

The Church leaders have not backed away in the least from their expressed preference that it be called the Church of Jesus Christ. Nor have they ever objected to the name Mormon in usages other than the name of the Church itself. Examples would be the Mormon people, the Mormon faith, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, the Mormon Pioneer Trail, etc.

Again, I don't see why people have difficulty grasping this distinction.

It's not confusing to me, but I can understand how this distinction might go over the head of some outsiders. In articles and discussions about the Church and its members, the word "Mormon" somehow always inevitably ends up in there, in many cases referring to the name of the Church itself.

What really gets on my nerves is when certain people (usually anti's or ex-Mormons) use the term "the Brighamite branch" of Mormonism - referring condescendingly to the contemporary Salt Lake City based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Anybody ever come across this before? Also, some disaffected members still identify themselves as Mormons (more from a cultural or familial standpoint) even if their current status with the Church itself may be on the outs.

Anyway, I'm happy to belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and to call myself a Mormon! I personally think it's a great name for a Church- even if some might think it's a bit too long. I can't think of any other church that I'd rather belong to than The Church of Jesus Christ. Anybody else find it kind of ironic how some people say that we are not true Christians when we are the only church of any size or significance that has the Lord's name in the name of our Church?

[Cobalt-70]

By the way, is there another 'Church of Jesus Christ' anywhere? I know there are several 'Church of Christ' groups.

Yes. "The Church of Jesus Christ" is the official name of the Bickertonites.

[blackstrap]

IIRC ,there is or was a Church of Jesus Christ Aryan Nation in Northern Idaho.

[Jude2]

I'm a proud Mormon!

[Cobalt-70]

I know you don't mean anything by it but it is critical to not call The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the Mormon Church, especially during this time of great scruinty by the public. D&C 115:3 and 4 plainly tell us what Christ wants his Church to be called. I read a nice post on here about Lamanites and the Church but the poster called it the Mormon Church throughout his post.It drove me nuts. I read an article about Billy Graham and Romney's Mormon Church. I stopped reading it. If we don't correct people and call the Church by the correct name it hurts the missionary effort. How do I know? I'm a convert and I had no idea whatsoever that Mormons were Christian until I went to the Worlds Fair in Spokane and went to an exhibit. It matters and I believe we had a GC talk by President Monson on this subject last year. It matters because it forces people to realise we believe we ARE His Church and we want them to join us in Christ.

Calling the church by its full official name will not make anybody "realize" that the church is Christ's only authorized franchise. I agree that the term "Mormon Church" is incorrect (given that there are many Mormon churches other than the LDS Church). But I don't think anything is harmed by calling it the "Mormon Church." The LDS Church itself uses the term "Mormon Church" on its websites. See here and here (bottom left windows). If the LDS Church is okay with referring to itself as the "Mormon Church" on its own website, then I'm not going to criticize anybody else that uses the name.

[Sky]

Calling the church by its full official name will not make anybody "realize" that the church is Christ's only authorized franchise.

No, but hopefully it could help some to better understand the centrality of Christ to our faith and worship. Because in reality, Christ is the center of our faith, and this is reflected through the name of the Church and through our worship services. Without Christ, we have no faith or church. I've never been able to understand how this seems to get so lost on people.

I agree that the term "Mormon Church" is incorrect (given that there are many Mormon churches other than the LDS Church).

The only other church of any size or significance with ties to Joseph Smith besides the LDS Church - the Community of Christ - hardly consider themselves a "Mormon church." Closer to mainline Protestantism than Mormonism.

I think it would be more correct and cause less confusion to say that there is one main body and several smaller sects, separate from the main body, who trace their origins back to Joseph Smith - or the early Latter Day Saint movement. But I don't know of very many people who really think that there is more than one Mormon church. The "Mormon Church" is commonly understood to refer solely to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[Storm Rider]

It is odd when non-LDS call the church, the Church of Latter-day Saints. This one always perplexes me. How does Jesus Christ become excluded? Why would they exclude it?

I am one of the ones who usually refers to the Church as "LDS Church". I dislike the term "Mormon Church" and resorted to using LDS instead of Mormon. I guess I need to repent and just use the label, "Church of Jesus Christ". Thanks for the article.

[Cobalt-70]

It is odd when non-LDS call the church, the Church of Latter-day Saints. This one always perplexes me. How does Jesus Christ become excluded? Why would they exclude it?

That's not so strange. In 1834, the "Church of the Latter Day Saints" was church's official name. Don't knock it.

[azisbest]

As a used to be member (many years ago) and now non-member could you please tell me in laymans terms just why this is important. To me it seems to be much ado about not much. At least to us not in the know.

[Cobalt-70]

No, but hopefully it could help some to better understand the centrality of Christ to our faith and worship. Because in reality, Christ is the center of our faith, and this is reflected through the name of the Church and through our worship services. Without Christ, we have no faith or church. I've never been able to understand how this seems to get so lost on people.

I think it's going to take a lot more than putting an extra-large "JESUS CHRIST" in our logo to convince people that we are Christian. That doesn't hurt, but it would be a lot more convincing if we started using the cross again as a Christian symbol. It also wouldn't hurt if we mentioned the life or teachings of Jesus once in a while in our sacrament, Priesthood, and Relief Society meetings. If we really want to be convincing, maybe we could try jettisoning our non-scriptural "salvation by works" theology.

[Scott Lloyd]

Calling the church by its full official name will not make anybody "realize" that the church is Christ's only authorized franchise. I agree that the term "Mormon Church" is incorrect (given that there are many Mormon churches other than the LDS Church). But I don't think anything is harmed by calling it the "Mormon Church." The LDS Church itself uses the term "Mormon Church" on its websites. See here and here (bottom left windows). If the LDS Church is okay with referring to itself as the "Mormon Church" on its own website, then I'm not going to criticize anybody else that uses the name.

In making posts such as this, Cobalt fails to take cognizance of discussion that has already occurred on this board.

Just over a year ago on a thread on this board, I posted the following in response to a post from Cobalt:

This was addressed in this general conference talk given this past weekend by Elder Ballard that is the subject of this thread. Since 2001, there has been much that has happened with the Internet. The Church is using the term "Mormon Church" on its websites in line with a strategy to have its links show up near the top on search engine hits when searchers use that term to find information about the Church. As Elder Ballard explained in his talk, once a searcher clicks on the Church's links, he soon finds that the official and preferred name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Was Cobalt hoping I wouldn't notice he is endeavoring to cover already plowed ground? That strikes me as disingenuous. Or perhaps he just has a faulty memory. I will charitably allow that possibility.

As to whether calling it the "Mormon church" does any harm, the harm is that leaving the name of Christ out of the name of the Church plays into the hands of detractors who want to disconnect the Savior from His Church. I think that point was made clearly enough in the opening post.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Scott Lloyd

[volgadon]

It also wouldn't hurt if we mentioned the life or teachings of Jesus once in a while in our sacrament, Priesthood, and Relief Society meetings.

Reminds me of an old joke.

An American tourist travelling through Europe finds in an old castle shelter from a terrible storm. Later that night, the door to her room opens, and in floats a vampire, fangs bared. The tourist, thinking quickly, makes the sign of the cross. The vampire stares at her for a moment, and sighs. "Oy vay. Sveetheart, dis vouldn't help."

I think you've proven it by your post.

[Scott Lloyd]

I think it's going to take a lot more than putting an extra-large "JESUS CHRIST" in our logo to convince people that we are Christian. That doesn't hurt, but it would be a lot more convincing if we started using the cross again as a Christian symbol. It also wouldn't hurt if we mentioned the life or teachings of Jesus once in a while in our sacrament, Priesthood, and Relief Society meetings. If we really want to be convincing, maybe we could try jettisoning our non-scriptural "salvation by works" theology.

I don't know how sarcastic or hyperbolic this was intended to be, but my observation is that LDS worship services and classes are pervaded by references to the life and teachings of the Savior. The notion that they are not is myth and disinformation.

And if removing any vestige of uniquely Mormon doctrine or teaching until we resemble every other garden-variety Protestant sect is the price demanded for acceptance, well, the price is obviously too great.

But again, if others insist on denying our Christianity, there's no reason we have to support that intent by acquiescing to the removal of Jesus Christ from our name.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Scott Lloyd

[cinepro]

Why, that is the official name of the Church? That is what Jesus Christ requested that we call the Church.

Wait, were the first three names just guesses, with Jesus delivering his approved name in 1838? Or were all four of the names requested by Jesus?

This original church underwent several name changes during the 1830s, being called the Church of Jesus Christ, the Church of God, and then in 1834, the name was officially changed to the Church of the Latter Day Saints. In April 1838, the name was officially changed to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. After Smith died, Brigham Young and the largest body of Smith's followers incorporated the LDS Church in 1851 by legislation of the State of Deseret under the name The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which included a hyphenated "Latter-day" and a lower-case "d".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#Name_and_legal_entities

I also love how the capitalization and hyphenation of D&C 115 matches the modern usage.

[Nathair/|\]

As a used to be member (many years ago) and now non-member could you please tell me in laymans terms just why this is important. To me it seems to be much ado about not much. At least to us not in the know.

Basically this: (This is Jesus speaking.)

8 And how be it my church save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses’ name then it be Moses’ church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel. 3 Nephi 27:8

[cinepro]

I understand that we are Mormons and that we practice Mormonism but we don't worship Mormon. It's not the Mormon Church.

Honestly, I don't know anyone with a triple-digit IQ that thinks all church names automatically reflect who or what that group worships. While names can indicate the type of worship, they also just as commonly are used to describe the worshipers themselves, or serve only as a label with which to refer to the group.

Obviously, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a specific problem with branding, hence the objection to the use of "Mormon", but let's not pretend some rule of order is being violated by referring to a religion with a name that is unassociated with their deity.

[azisbest]

Basically this: (This is Jesus speaking.)

So if Jesus Christ is not in the letterhead one cannot consider it not part of Christ's church? Just trying to understand.

[azisbest]

So if Jesus Christ is not in the letterhead one cannot consider it part of Christ's church? Just trying to understand.

[Nathair/|\]

So if Jesus Christ is not in the letterhead one cannot consider it not part of Christ's church? Just trying to understand.

I'll let you take that up with Him. Any answer I could give would be pretty insufficient, but from my perspective it seems to be pretty important to Him to have His Name right there. The scriptures are full of references to the importance of the appropriate use of His Name. From taking upon ourselves His Name at baptism, to being authorized to act in His Name...

[Calm]

It is odd when non-LDS call the church, the Church of Latter-day Saints. This one always perplexes me. How does Jesus Christ become excluded? Why would they exclude it?

I am one of the ones who usually refers to the Church as "LDS Church". I dislike the term "Mormon Church" and resorted to using LDS instead of Mormon. I guess I need to repent and just use the label, "Church of Jesus Christ". Thanks for the article.

I define "lds church" as the church that lds belong to, not the church that belongs to lds. Probably should get into the habit of using at least TCoJC if I can't bring mysel to type out the whole name.

[rodheadlee]

Honestly, I don't know anyone with a triple-digit IQ that thinks all church names automatically reflect who or what that group worships. While names can indicate the type of worship, they also just as commonly are used to describe the worshipers themselves, or serve only as a label with which to refer to the group.

Obviously, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a specific problem with branding, hence the objection to the use of "Mormon", but let's not pretend some rule of order is being violated by referring to a religion with a name that is unassociated with their deity.

Nephi 27:

7 Therefore, whatsoever ye shall do, ye shall do it in my name; therefore ye shall call the church in my name; and ye shall call upon the Father in my name that he will bless the church for my sake.

8 And how be it ^amy ^bchurch save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses’ name then it be Moses’ church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel

[Nofear]

I confess also being annoyed the expression "Mormon Church", especially when done by members. The style guide put forth by the Church hasn't changed in many years (http://www.mormonnew...org/style-guide).

What I haven't seen in this thread is anybody mention the expression "Mormon church" (with a lower case 'c'). Not something I use, but what do you think when that expression comes up?

[thesometimesaint]

I confess also being annoyed the expression "Mormon Church", especially when done by members. The style guide put forth by the Church hasn't changed in many years (http://www.mormonnew...org/style-guide).

What I haven't seen in this thread is anybody mention the expression "Mormon church" (with a lower case 'c'). Not something I use, but what do you think when that expression comes up?

Depends if that person knows the name of the Church or not.

[volgadon]

So if Jesus Christ is not in the letterhead one cannot consider it not part of Christ's church? Just trying to understand.

If you look at church as meaning the community of, then it makes a lot more sense.