Duncan Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) In Moroni 10:22 it says that Despair cometh because of Iniquity-but we can be in despair and none of it has anything to do with iniquity. An example would be losing your job or death of a spouse or something and you despair but neither of those are iniquitous. What do you think of this verse? Edited July 20, 2012 by Duncan
Lightbearer Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 In Moroni 10:22 it says that Despair cometh because of Iniquity-but we can be in despair and none of it has anything to do with iniquity. An example would be losing your job or death of a spouse or something and you despair but neither of those are iniquitous. What do you think of this verse?As with all scriptures one must look at it in context: "And if ye have no hope ye must needs be in despair; and despair cometh because of iniquity. And Christ truly said unto our fathers: If ye have faith ye can do all things which are expedient unto me. (Book of Mormon | Moroni 10:22-23) Notice it says that if ye have no hope ye needs be in despair. If you have no hope then there is no faith and if there is no faith nor hope you truly are in despair and the absence of these two things does come because of iniquity. While losing one's job or the death of a spouse or other misfortune can cause one to be depressed or saddened, but it should not cause despair if one has faith in the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. I think that is the intent of these verses. If we have the gift of the Holy Ghost then the comforter will help us overcome our trials and tribulations. It is not saying that we have trials because of iniquity, but that if we have no hope in Christ, if we our not comforted because of our lack of faith in the Lord, then we must indeed be in despair and this despair does come because of sin. At least that is the way I understand this reference. 4
KevinG Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 I think it sometimes comes of our situation or our brain chemistry. But sometimes we do despair from lack of faith or obedience where we lose our joy:the peace that surpasseth understanding.If we look at mental health and emotional health like any other health issue we can add it to the infirmities where Christ taught us not to judge someone because they were inflicted or their children were inflicted with illness.
BCSpace Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 While losing one's job or the death of a spouse or other misfortune can cause one to be depressed or saddened, but it should not cause despair if one has faith in the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.I have to agree. Unbelief is sin (and therefore a form of iniquity), and despite these misfortunes which may not even be our fault or our doing, if we have not faith, we will despair and that is because of iniquity; unbelief at the least.
CV75 Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 In Moroni 10:22 it says that Despair cometh because of Iniquity-but we can be in despair and none of it has anything to do with iniquity. An example would be losing your job or death of a spouse or something and you despair but neither of those are iniquitous. What do you think of this verse?I think the verse applies to the wages/fruits of iniquity (the remedy being faith and repentance). Despair can still come to people doing their best the remedy involving perseverance in faith). The test of faith is in who the sufferer looks to, and what covenants they keep while dealing with despair.When mental health issues are at the root of the despair, I don't think it's quite the same thing.
USU78 Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 Marilla Cuthbert: "To despair is to turn your back on G-d."I'm thinking our author had something like this in mind . . . or like that employed by the author of Job: His wife urges him to "curse G-d and die." That is the kind of despair we're talking about. 2
volgadon Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 I'm thinking our author had something like this in mind . . . or like that employed by the author of Job: His wife urges him to "curse G-d and die." That is the kind of despair we're talking about.Very good point. R. Nachman of Breslav had a famous saying, "There is no despair in the world at all." Not that despair doesn't exist, but it should be rejected, as despair leads one to give up. 1
CASteinman Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 I don't think despair is mere sadness or unhappiness. I think it is: " Hopelessness; a hopeless state" and in particular: "Loss of hope in the mercy of God." 1
BlueDreams Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 In Moroni 10:22 it says that Despair cometh because of Iniquity-but we can be in despair and none of it has anything to do with iniquity. An example would be losing your job or death of a spouse or something and you despair but neither of those are iniquitous. What do you think of this verse?I think of the context of the scripture, especially who is stating this truth: Moroni, of all people, would have plenty of reasons to despair....he's alone in a way very few people ever are with the only people left being those willing to kill him. I do not equate despair with depression or sorrow. If I had to take a guess, i'd assume Moroni felt plenty of both as he watched his people implode and be destroyed, being left alone for years. As mentioned, I tie it more with a lack of hope or vision as to the things of God. Moroni did not lose sight of the Lord's purposes, he continued to the end of his days to do as the Lord asked of him. To do otherwise is to insinuate all is lost and inevitably "to curse God and die." Of all people to testify of despair as iniquity, I think Moroni would be a leading expert.With luv,BD 2
mbh26 Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 Based on what Latin I know, the root of the word despair literally means, without hope. Under the perspective of the gospel, there should always be hope and therefore despair should not exist. That doesn't mean there won't be bad times or unhappines regardless of what you do IMHO. 2
The Nehor Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 Despair is giving up. It is also usually tied to pride. Tolkien probably showed this best in the fall of many of the characters in his books. Pride leads them to believe they can see what is to come based on circumstances now and they give up because they cannot see any hope because they as assured they know the end.I don't think this means having a bout of worry of grief after a life-changing event. Jesus was discouraged more then once and even wept at the tomb of Lazarus.
Duncan Posted July 23, 2012 Author Posted July 23, 2012 Despair is giving up. It is also usually tied to pride. Tolkien probably showed this best in the fall of many of the characters in his books. Pride leads them to believe they can see what is to come based on circumstances now and they give up because they cannot see any hope because they as assured they know the end.I don't think this means having a bout of worry of grief after a life-changing event. Jesus was discouraged more then once and even wept at the tomb of Lazarus.i've never read any of Tolkien's books so i'll take your word for it! excellent thoughts!
Duncan Posted July 23, 2012 Author Posted July 23, 2012 Heathen!you'll doubly or tripley despise me for this but I haven't read any of the Harry Potter series, Twilight or anything by C.S. Lewis AND I haven't played a video game since 1991 when I was 13
Calm Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) CS Lewis is the only one that matters in your list and I am perfectly okay with you not playing video games, pretty impressive in fact.Let me just say vampires that sparkle in the sun rather than going to dust.... Edited July 23, 2012 by calmoriah 3
Duncan Posted July 23, 2012 Author Posted July 23, 2012 CS Lewis is the only one that matters in your list and I am perfectly okay with you not playing video games, pretty impressive in fact.Let me just say vampires that sparkle in the sun rather than going to dust.... I fell asleep at the showing of the first and my last viewing of LOTR-in my defense I think I was drugged by my friends so I wouldn't be asking them so many questions and comparisons to the movie Willow-same plot if you ask me!!!
Calm Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) I walk out of the room when it is playing. Too much creative licence by the director, it gives me the creeps. Let me make one example that changes the whole dynamic...in the books Frodo is the oldest of the hobbits, in the movie he is the baby and everyone treats him like one from what I've seen. Then there is the Aragorn with the teenage angst....please. Edited July 23, 2012 by calmoriah
volgadon Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 I walk out of the room when it is playing. Too much creative licence by the director, it gives me the creeps. Let me make one example that changes the whole dynamic...in the books Frodo is the oldest of the hobbits, in the movie he is the baby and everyone treats him like one from what I've seen. Then there is the Aragorn with the teenage angst....please. I also thought that cutting Saruman out of most of the film was a mistake, not to mention revealing a certain knight's identity too early, or that incredibly silly combustion scene. 1
Duncan Posted July 23, 2012 Author Posted July 23, 2012 I walk out of the room when it is playing. Too much creative licence by the director, it gives me the creeps. Let me make one example that changes the whole dynamic...in the books Frodo is the oldest of the hobbits, in the movie he is the baby and everyone treats him like one from what I've seen. Then there is the Aragorn with the teenage angst....please. Mumsie felt the same about Anne of Green Gables when it was on CBC!
Calm Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 I also thought that cutting Saruman out of most of the film was a mistake, not to mention revealing a certain knight's identity too early, or that incredibly silly combustion scene.And they completely destroyed the relationship between Boromir, Faramir, Denethor, Aragorn and Gandalf. Denethor was disgusting in the movie, who in their right mind would be loyal to him?
Calm Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) Mumsie felt the same about Anne of Green Gables when it was on CBC!I haven't read the books so I enjoyed the show. Now I feel guilty because I am a book purist (don't do the movie if you can't be faithful to the books, keep the sense of the characters and the plot even if you have to cut out a lot for time's sake). Either that or do a complete twist on the books like the Wonderland version (I am iffy on that one, but thought the idea of her going back as an adult was clever). Edited July 23, 2012 by calmoriah
volgadon Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 I haven't read the books so I enjoyed the show. Now I feel guilty because I am a book purist (don't do the movie if you can't be faithful to the books, keep the sense of the characters and the plot even if you have to cut out a lot for time's sake). Either that or do a complete twist on the books like the Wonderland version (I am iffy on that one, but thought the idea of her going back as an adult was clever).As a book purist myself, I tend to enjoy Russian film adaptations, because most keep deviation from the books to a minimum. I watched Seventeen Moments of Spring (incredible WW2 spy drama) before reading the book. When I did read it, I was surprised at how close the adaptation was.
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