What Does Accountable Even Mean?

[Duncan]

Yestarday in ward council I asked what exactley does ''accountable" mean and I was told that it is the ability to feel remorse for your bad decisions. I have no problem with that but is that what accountable means? are there other definitions?

Edited July 16, 2012 by Duncan

[CV75]

Yestarday in ward council I asked what exactley does ''accountable" mean and I was told that it is the ability to feel remorse for your bad decisions. I have no problem with that but is that what accountable means? are there other definitions?

https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-strength-of-youth/agency-and-accountability?lang=eng

More fundamentally than feeling remorse for bad decisions (some accountable people don't!), I think it is the basic ability to use one's agency, or make informed choices without constraint. So of course there are degrees of accountbaility, righteousness, and sin.

[ERayR]

Yestarday in ward council I asked what exactley does ''accountable" mean and I was told that it is the ability to feel remorse for your bad decisions. I have no problem with that but is that what accountable means? are there other definitions?

It means one must "own" their own decisions and actions and take responsibility for them.

[CASteinman]

I think it is related to reporting to someone and receiving counsel from them.

This would include being accountable to yourself and your own standards, being accountable to God and especially the Holy Ghost, being accountable to ecclesiastical leaders and being accountable to your boss at work.

[Nofear]

From a different perspective, perhaps not fully relevant to the op:

Our physical body has and can have a profound effect on our thoughts and behavior. Indeed much of what we bodily experience in mortality are automatic functions -- something we have no conscious control over. On the other hand, our body wants to be manageable enough that our "mind" can be truly said to be the origin of our moral actions (and hence accountable). It is not always the case. Some bodies/brains do not function in the proper way. Such individuals can justly be excused, to a greater or lesser degree, from being accountable. Children take awhile for both the body to mature and the "mind" to get used to it. Consequently, we place age 8 as the time they begin to be accountable. Yet, I think God has done a tremendously wonderful job on balancing the "automaton" aspects of our physical body with the control our spirit can exert over our body.

[mfbukowski]

Knowing right from wrong.

Remember Adam and the knowledge of good and evil? I think Eve ate that fruit around the age of eight.

Edited July 17, 2012 by mfbukowski

[Nofear]

Remember Adam and the knowledge of good and evil? I think Eve ate that fruit around the age of eight.

My own personal heresy is that when Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil that the Light of Christ became a functional contributor to their consciousness. As we know, the Light of Christ gives us a signal was is good and what is wrong. So I hypothesize that before partaking of the fruit that Adam and Eve only had access to what their personal wills (spirit) and their physical bodies inclined them to do. Yet is it impossible for a mere mortal (having forgotten all) to know the intricacies of morality. Under such an ignorant state it is impossible to be truly accountable. The Light of Christ (which again, I believe became functional with human bodies at the partaking of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil) cuts through all the subtleties and lets us know what is right. And this has been so, for the Sons of Adam from the beginning (see D&C 93:31).

[zerinus]

Yestarday in ward council I asked what exactley does ''accountable" mean and I was told that it is the ability to feel remorse for your bad decisions. I have no problem with that but is that what accountable means? are there other definitions?

The word accountable occurs six times LDS scripture, once in the Book of Mormon and the rest in the Doctrine and Covenants:

Moroni 8:

10 Behold I say unto you that this thing shall ye teach—repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of committing sin; yea, teach parents that they must repent and be baptized, and humble themselves as their little children, and they shall all be saved with their little children.

D&C 29:

47 Wherefore, they cannot sin, for power is not given unto Satan to tempt little children, until they begin to become accountable before me

D&C 42:

32 And it shall come to pass, that after they are laid before the bishop of my church, and after that he has received these testimonies concerning the consecration of the properties of my church, that they cannot be taken from the church, agreeable to my commandments, every man shall be made accountable unto me, a steward over his own property, or that which he has received by consecration, as much as is sufficient for himself and family.

D&C 101:

78 That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment.

D&C 104:

13 For it is expedient that I, the Lord, should make every man accountable, as a steward over earthly blessings, which I have made and prepared for my creatures.

D&C 134:

1 We believe that governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man; and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them, both in making laws and administering them, for the good and safety of society.

It means answerable or responsible. It means to be liable to be “held to account”. It carries the idea of penalties involved in case of failure. The word does not occur in the Bible; instead, the expression “give account of” (or its equivalents) are used to convey the same ideas:

Matthew 12:

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Luke 16:

2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.

Acts 19:

40 For we are in danger to be called in question for this day's uproar, there being no cause whereby we may give an account of this concourse.

Romans 14:

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Hebrews 13:

17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Peter 4:

5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

D&C 72:

16 And now, verily I say unto you, that as every elder in this part of the vineyard must give an account of his stewardship unto the bishop in this part of the vineyard

19 And now, verily I say unto you, let every elder who shall give an account unto the bishop of the church in this part of the vineyard be recommended by the church or churches, in which he labors, that he may render himself and his accounts approved in all things.

D&C 104:

12 That every man may give an account unto me of the stewardship which is appointed unto him.

[brianwhite159]

It means all thing are maintainable, remember good decision comes from experience and experience comes from bad decision

[The Nehor]

Yestarday in ward council I asked what exactley does ''accountable" mean and I was told that it is the ability to feel remorse for your bad decisions. I have no problem with that but is that what accountable means? are there other definitions?

It think the answer given is wrong. Children under the age of 8 are not accountable for their decisions but can still feel remorse for their actions.

I would define it as having a strong enough knowledge and understanding of good and evil that a person can rightly be judged wicked for choosing the evil.

[ANACO]

www.m-w.com

[rongo]

D&C 29:

47 Wherefore, they cannot sin, for power is not given unto Satan to tempt little children, until they begin to become accountable before me

This passage struck me a couple of years ago. I had always believed that Satan could tempt little children, but that they weren't accountable until the age of accountability. I remember being a mean little cuss, making my cousin eat dirt, stealing my cousin's birthday present and throwing it in the back of the truck going to the dump, etc. I assumed that I was tempted to do things like this. This says quite clearly that Satan [cannot tempt little children.

I think that both God and Satan get blamed for things that aren't their fault . . . My meanness as a little kid was me experimenting with my agency, and not succumbing to temptation from the devil.

[Ahab]

Yestarday in ward council I asked what exactley does ''accountable" mean and I was told that it is the ability to feel remorse for your bad decisions. I have no problem with that but is that what accountable means? are there other definitions?

Wow, that was a bad answer, although I can see how it can involve that as a side effect.

We are accountable for everything we do, whether or not we feel remorse for our actions, and we remain accountable for everything we do unless our Lord forgives us for certain actions, at which point those things are essentially wiped from our record, in a sense. We still did what we did, but those things are no longer part of our account.

The idea that children are not accountable for things they do, or for certain things they do, stems from the fact that our Lord doesn't hold any bad things they did against them because they didn't do anything evil because they didn't know the difference between good and evil, even though they might have known their parents or others didn't approve of some of the things that they did.

To be held accountable for things means there is someone we have to give an account to for what we will be held accountable for, and those things for which we will give an account are those things recorded on our account, both right and wrong.

It's good to be held accountable for the good things we do. We just don't want any bad things on our account, and if there are some, we will want them removed... either when we give an account, or sooner... unless we love what is evil.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Ahab

[Duncan]

Wow, that was a really bad answer, although I can see how it can involve that as a side effect.

We are accountable for everything we do, whether or not we feel remorse for our actions, and we remain accountable for everything we do unless our Lord forgives us for certain actions, at which point those things are essentially wiped from our record, in a sense. We still did what we did, but those things are no longer held against us.

It was relation to lady who desires baptism and some of the ward council are against it saying she isn't accountable and I said what is that exactley? and was given that response

Edited August 1, 2012 by Duncan

[Ahab]

It was relation to lady who desires baptism and some of the ward council are against it saying she isn't accountable and I said what is that exactley? and was given that response

Is she mentally retarded, or something like that? If she is I can see how what they said makes a little more sense, and I'll withdraw my criticism by saying what they told you was bad, but it's still not what accountable means. Whoever told you that just told you how someone would feel if they were accountable and also happened to feel remorse for what they did, but not all who are accountable feel remorse anyway, so that's not what being accountable is all about.

If I'm not mistaken I think it's the bishop's call on whether or not to baptize someone past age 8 when they're mentally retarded, with the bishop basing his decision on what is available to him through the Spirit, and the Church Handbook of Instructions, and his leadership channels beginning with the Stake President, going up. If it were me, I would have baptized her anyway, because she would probably appreciate it, but the bishop may still have given a valid decision. At worst she'll just need to be baptized later.

[Duncan]

Is she mentally retarded, or something like that? If she is I can see how what they said makes a little more sense, and I'll withdraw my criticism by saying what they told you was bad, but it's still not what accountable means. Whoever told you that just told you how someone would feel if they were accountable and also happened to feel remorse for what they did, but not all who are accountable feel remorse anyway, so that's not what being accountable is all about.

If I'm not mistaken I think it's the bishop's call on whether or not to baptize someone past age 8 when they're mentally retarded, with the bishop basing his decision on what is available to him through the Spirit, and the Church Handbook of Instructions, and his leadership channels beginning with the Stake President, going up. If it were me, I would have baptized her anyway, because she would probably appreciate it, but the bishop may still have given a valid decision. At worst she'll just need to be baptized later.

she isn't mentally challenged or anything, I think she has some emotional issues possibly stemming from some breakdown or something. She comes every sunday, reads her scriptures, makes no better no worse comments in Gospel essentials class, so I am not sure why they are against her being baptized. She did back out of her first date about 3 months ago, something, but she seems more committed now, I dunno. I had a bit of a debate on sunday in "ward conflict" mtg about it but I was piled on but the Bishop is or was supposed to talk to the Mission President and I am meeting the elders tonite as I am the ward mission leader so maybe we will see what happens.

[Ahab]

she isn't mentally challenged or anything, I think she has some emotional issues possibly stemming from some breakdown or something. She comes every sunday, reads her scriptures, makes no better no worse comments in Gospel essentials class, so I am not sure why they are against her being baptized. She did back out of her first date about 3 months ago, something, but she seems more committed now, I dunno. I had a bit of a debate on sunday in "ward conflict" mtg about it but I was piled on but the Bishop is or was supposed to talk to the Mission President and I am meeting the elders tonite as I am the ward mission leader so maybe we will see what happens.

Another thing that's required before baptism, apart from being accountable, is to feel remorse for our sins enough to want to repent.

Maybe they were mixing in different thoughts during the discussion and it wasn't just about not being held accountable.

If she's not willing to repent, she shouldn't be baptized, either, just as we shouldn't take the Sacrament if we're not willing to repent.

Several things are working together in this. I have faith that all things will work out for the good of everyone who wants to do good.

[Duncan]

Another thing that's required before baptism, apart from being accountable, is to feel remorse for our sins enough to want to repent.

Maybe they were mixing in different thoughts during the discussion and it wasn't just about not being held accountable.

If she's not willing to repent, she shouldn't be baptized, either, just as we shouldn't take the Sacrament if we're not willing to repent.

Several things are working together in this. I have faith that all things will work out for the good of everyone who wants to do good.

that's the thing, I hope? she and me for that matter has repented! haha! I think she is fine but it is out of my hands.

[phaedrus ut]

It think the answer given is wrong. Children under the age of 8 are not accountable for their decisions but can still feel remorse for their actions.

I would define it as having a strong enough knowledge and understanding of good and evil that a person can rightly be judged wicked for choosing the evil.

And children over the age of 8 are intellectually grown enough to now make a informed religious decision. We should also make them now repent of worshiping false gods like the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus.

Phaedrus

[The Nehor]

And children over the age of 8 are intellectually grown enough to now make a informed religious decision. We should also make them now repent of worshiping false gods like the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus.

Phaedrus

I admit I have my doubts that an 8-year old is mature enough to be accountable. Then again I think God is almost insane to imagine that 45-year olds can make informed religious decisions. Sometimes I think the 8-year old would be the wiser one.

[Ahab]

I admit I have my doubts that an 8-year old is mature enough to be accountable. Then again I think God is almost insane to imagine that 45-year olds can make informed religious decisions. Sometimes I think the 8-year old would be the wiser one.

Accountability is given when the light of Christ is given, also known as a conscience, and nobody gets that light until and unless Christ gives it to them.

It's not as if children mature to the point where they gain that attribute or ability, which comes from having a conscience, on their own.

Christ can withhold that light when and where he wants to, and there is always a good reason for what he does.

As it is now, the light is usually given when a person gets to be 8 years old, in Earth years, and a person can sense it as long as that person's brain functions as well as it should.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Ahab

[The Nehor]

And children over the age of 8 are intellectually grown enough to now make a informed religious decision. We should also make them now repent of worshiping false gods like the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus.

Phaedrus

We should first probably repent of worshiping the false conceit that we are making informed rational decisions.

[phaedrus ut]

We should first probably repent of worshiping the false conceit that we are making informed rational decisions.

My conceit is authentic when it comes to the cute but knowable false like the Tooth Fairy. My confidence about things like Bigfoot or fortune telling is less but still informed and rational. After that it's turtles all the way down.

Phaedrus