Gay Student Panel At Byu

[Damien the Leper]

I hope you noticed that I never argued that God loves you any less. Orson Scoit Card once wrote that "For God to love us at all, He has to love us more than we deserve". I am comfortable with the idea that there isn't any of His children that He does not love. So, in a sense, you can't use that love to justify yourself, and neither can anyone else.

As to "nothing wrong" with you, my thought on this is that it is nevertheless a disorder. My own disorder has a "cure", namely an anti-depressant called imipramine. A very small dose of it and I become hyper-attentive and very tightly wound. Not that I would explode or anything, I am still me, just tightly focussed. I took the drug briefly, but all the side-effects caused me to not want to continue with it. One thing it did do was show me what it was like to be very focussed. Afterwards this made it possible for me to put myself into that frame of mind, by my own will, and that seemed sufficient.

I read once that it has happened in the deaf community that when for a member it became possible to become hearing through some treatment (e.g. cochlear implant), especially if the deaf person had been deaf all or most of his life, there could be profound hesitation, even refusal, to receive the treatment. And the reason is perhaps not surprising. Those who are deaf form a social community with others who are deaf, and that community is quite cohesive. To become hearing is pretty much to abandon some very personally valuable sociality. I'm certain that this is the same with gay persons. Its understandable, even admirable to a certain extent.

If such a treatment for gayness became available, a treatment that was effective and reliable, I wonder how many would refuse to avail themselves of it? Perhaps the majority.

I've removed your incredibly inappropriate comments about posters rather than taking you out of the thread. You are welcome.

Not me. I'm grateful and take pride in my creation and all the blessings that are ingrained in that creation. I am because God made me so. I'm glad God made me gay. I will be eternally grateful.

[Stargazer]

I've removed your incredibly inappropriate comments about posters rather than taking you out of the thread. You are welcome.

Didn't think they were inappropriate. Sorry.

I've said all I wanted to say in this thread in any case. I'll just remove my own self.

[why me]

Not me. I'm grateful and take pride in my creation and all the blessings that are ingrained in that creation. I am because God made me so. I'm glad God made me gay. I will be eternally grateful.

And you should be. Now the question becomes one of conduct and living life through an eternal perspective. And in this we all have free agency and fee will. I can only tell what it was like for me in the 1970's in NYC being surround by gay men in Greenwich Village: many gay men were very promiscuous and had no concept of eternity.

Edited April 8, 2012 by why me

[Damien the Leper]

And you should be. Now the question becomes one of conduct and living life through an eternal perspective. And in this we all have free agency and fee will. I can only tell what it was like for me in the 1970's in NYC being surround by gay men in Greenwich Village: many gay men were very promiscuous and had no concept of eternity.

I have observed this as well because there is a serious problem of this in Phoenix Metro Area.

I have no desire to live promiscuously. I, much like my married, LDS friends want a committed monogomous relationship with kids eventually.

The eternal perspective that I feel being called to is that of "Did I embrace God's gifts and mercy and love to help start and rear a family dedicated to service, compassion and charity?", "Did I make the best of all the resources given me to accomplish the things which God has placed in front of me?"

[cinepro]

This issue made the local news here in Los Angeles last night. They talked about the gay BYU student videos on YouTube, and showed clips from a few of them. They mentioned how the "code of conduct" for the university accepts homosexual students, but they can't engage in any homosexual acts. All in all, it was a pretty fair report, but the anchors almost couldn't hide their tone of incredulity over the subject.

Edited April 8, 2012 by cinepro

[CV75]

I wrestle with how to approach being a good friend while retaining some large differences in how we've chosen to conduct our lives. While my beliefs differ from theirs I do not want to create a gulf in our friendship, love and acceptance of each other.

It helps that I believe a mans religion is something best practices on himself and taught to his own family or those who volunteer to have him teach or be a steward over them. It is not something I would impose upon someone who is not desirous of it or chose not to covenant with.

I had a very close friend and confidant through high school with whom I shared the Gospel as I learned it over time. I was not a member and not allowed contact with the Church, but I had a testimony and Church materials, and interspersed with all the mischief we got into, I shared them with him. I obtained the materials from an older brother who had joined the Church at college much to my parents’ consternation, worry and chagrin. I went so far as to transcribe priesthood lessons for him, hand them to him in school, and answer questions he had about them. His parents, being more receptive, allowed him to attend Church and youth activities, and in his senior year, allowed him to be baptized. He then served a mission.

We then lost contact but I joined the Church when I went away to college, and upon graduation served a mission. Some 20 years later, when in my homeland again, I looked him up. He told me the story of his difficult coming to terms with his homosexuality while on his mission, coming home early due to the emotional strain of it, and finally losing his virginity to an older colleague in the publishing business; he was an active priesthood holder and carried a temple recommend up to that time. He said Church leaders had been nothing but supportive of his struggles and he felt welcome to return to activity, but did not want to anymore.

The point is, after our long conversation and catching up on how our lives took on vastly different directions, we were still “brothers” in our affection and regard for each other, and nothing could replace the bond and benefits we shared as friends in our youth. I believe there is a fundamental connection between all God’s children if we allow it to come to the surface.

[Bikeemikey]

This issue made the local news here in Los Angeles last night. They talked about the gay BYU student videos on YouTube, and showed clips from a few of them. They mentioned how the "code of conduct" for the university accepts homosexual students, but they can't engage in any homosexual acts. All in all, it was a pretty fair report, but the anchors almost couldn't hide their tone of incredulity over the subject.

It would also be true the hetero-sexual acts would not be permitted with in the code of conduct unless married, is that correct?

In fact, any kind of sexy time between unmarried students would be a violation of the code of conduct from what I understand.

[KevinG]

It would also be true the hetero-sexual acts would not be permitted with in the code of conduct unless married, is that correct?

In fact, any kind of sexy time between unmarried students would be a violation of the code of conduct from what I understand.

Yuppers.

[why me]

I have observed this as well because there is a serious problem of this in Phoenix Metro Area.

It calmed down after the HIV scare of the early 80's. But now it is coming back under the false impression that drugs can take care of it.

Here is what I see: if you get involved with a nonmormon gay man, you will need to be careful that he doesn't stray because that could be deadly. Much better to be with a gay mormon who has an eternal perspective toward life with absolute trust that if one strays, the one will tell the other. .

I would say the same to the heteros too.

Edited April 9, 2012 by why me

[why me]

This issue made the local news here in Los Angeles last night. They talked about the gay BYU student videos on YouTube, and showed clips from a few of them. They mentioned how the "code of conduct" for the university accepts homosexual students, but they can't engage in any homosexual acts. All in all, it was a pretty fair report, but the anchors almost couldn't hide their tone of incredulity over the subject.

They should have also mentioned that heteros can not engage in sexual acts either unless married.

[Senator]

You should have heard the rant that I was entreated to yesterday in Elder's quorum meeting over this and the "It gets better" video.

Whooosh!!!

Edited April 9, 2012 by Senator

[Jaybear]

They should have also mentioned that heteros can not engage in sexual acts either unless married.

Homosexual acts is a broad term which would encompass activities such as kissing, love letters, and holding hands.

[checkerman]

I hate to say it but I think you are right. At that point, the church will be fully ripe with sin.

I believe it is only a matter of a decade or so before those leading GLBT lifestyles will be given full access to Church rights. I am excited at the idea.

[Damien the Leper]

It calmed down after the HIV scare of the early 80's. But now it is coming back under the false impression that drugs can take care of it.

Here is what I see: if you get involved with a nonmormon gay man, you will need to be careful that he doesn't stray because that could be deadly. Much better to be with a gay mormon who has an eternal perspective toward life with absolute trust that if one strays, the one will tell the other. .

I would say the same to the heteros too.

I completely agree. I recently, as in the last week, began having conversation with a former missionary who served in the Arizona Phoenix Mission when I lived in Flagstaff in 2003. We never really got to know each other beyond aquaintance when he served and that is fine because any further would push propriety. Anyway, we got in touch recently and I found out that he moved back to AZ about 5 years ago and is an architect. We'll see where it goes. I would much rather be with a Mormon guy or someone with similar values.

[TruthSeeker24]

It seems to me that there's a lot of discussion about gay issues and the Church. The scriptures outlaw homosexuality. It's as simple as that for me. I don't agree with having a gay panel at BYU unless its gays that are trying to change themselves.

[Senator]

I don't agree with having a gay panel at BYU unless its gays that are trying to change themselves.

What if it was about gays encouraging other gays not to kill themselves? Is that an "OK" panel?

[TruthSeeker24]

Yes! Most definitely. Assuming that there wasn't a side agenda of endorsing homosexuality.

[Senator]

Yes! Most definitely. Assuming that there wasn't a side agenda of endorsing homosexuality.

Out of curiosity...

Even if there was a "side" agenda of ensorsement, would you prefer they not hold a panel encouraging a "front" agenda of suicide prevention?

[cinepro]

The scriptures outlaw homosexuality. It's as simple as that for me.

Interesting. Do the scriptures say what the penalty for homosexuality should be?

[TruthSeeker24]

That's a hard line to draw for me. I honestly don't know. I suppose it would be non of my business since I'm not on the panel or gay. But if it was by business, I like to think that I would be against the panel. But I honestly couldn't say.

[Senator]

That's a hard line to draw for me. I honestly don't know. I suppose it would be non of my business since I'm not on the panel or gay. But if it was by business, I like to think that I would be against the panel. But I honestly couldn't say.

That's an honest answer!

Thanks

[Damien the Leper]

It seems to me that there's a lot of discussion about gay issues and the Church. The scriptures outlaw homosexuality. It's as simple as that for me. I don't agree with having a gay panel at BYU unless its gays that are trying to change themselves.

You need to read scripture for what it says and NOT how it reads. The OT and NT do NOT condemn homosexuality. How we define the word abomination today is NOT the same as the Hebrew word to'ebah, translated as abomination, in the Leviticus narrative. It would do many well to recognize this.

As for the NT, malakoi and arsenokoitai are NOT words used to describe homosexuals (Romans 1:28 and 1 Cor 6:9). The word that was used IN CIRCULATION at that time to define a person who had attraction for the same sex was paiderasste. That is the word Paul would have used.

Furthermore, as far as Paul's supposed condemnation goes...Paul would be unfamiliar with the physiological basis of homosexuality. If you pay closer attention to the Romans narrative he is talking about heterosexual men and women who gave up their natural attraction in order to perform homosexual acts as a form of pagan temple worship. What Paul DID NOT say was that homosexuals gave up their natural attraction in favor of heterosexuality as form of pagan temple worship.

Personally, the idea of sexual reorientation is ridiculous but I will not discount the stories, however realistic they are, that some have 'changed' or 'been cured'.

[TruthSeeker24]

You're welcome

And to Cinepro, I'm not sure what the punishment is, or even if the scriptures DO give a punishment. I guess I'll have to go find out sometime.

[Gillebre]

As someone who struggles with such things, I do genuinely believe in the power of the Atonement to free us from temptation. I genuinely empathize with the struggles of members of the Church who face same-gender attraction. At times, it has seemed to me to be one of the single greatest weapons against the Plan of Salvation. As has been expressed, those who are attracted to the same gender and yet desire to remain faithful to the Gospel of Jesus Christ (as taught by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, at least), face a difficult path. I am grateful that this panel was held so that more people can better understand the perspective and trials of those attracted to their own gender.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Gillebre

[TruthSeeker24]

I really appreciate that Gillebre! Those are good words.

Valentinus: To many big words for me to really want to take the time and research for a rebuttal lol.