inquiringmind Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 When has someone had their opportunity to accept the restored Gospel?What if they've been taught about it, they somehow managed to quite smoking, and they've had the missionaries over time after time, but they still have trouble believing it (or believing in anything)?Maybe they started investigating the Church after they suffered a loss, and they wanted to believe in something, but when they look inside themselves they don't seem able to be able to really feel much of anything anymore.What happens if instead of getting baptized, they give up all hope and kill themselves?Have they had their one and only chance to accept the restored Gospel here?
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Have they had their one and only chance to accept the restored Gospel here?Where exactly do the scriptures meantion a 'one and only chance'?God is not in the business of casting off the otherwise redeemable. He is in the business of salvation: 'For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.' He will provide for His children every opportunity necessary to save and exalt to the degree possible every last one who will accept His love. Edited January 28, 2012 by Hamba Tuhan
inquiringmind Posted January 28, 2012 Author Posted January 28, 2012 Where exactly do the scriptures meantion a 'one and only chance'?God is not in the business of casting off the otherwise redeemable. He is in the business of salvation: 'For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.' He will provide for His children every opportunity necessary to save and exalt to the degree possible every last one who will accept His love.Thank you.I don't know what I was thinking when I started this topic heading, and I apologize (but I do thank you for your reply here.)
Kenngo1969 Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 God knows. He'll be perfectly fair, merciful, and just.
The Nehor Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 When has someone had their opportunity to accept the restored Gospel?What if they've been taught about it, they somehow managed to quite smoking, and they've had the missionaries over time after time, but they still have trouble believing it (or believing in anything)?Maybe they started investigating the Church after they suffered a loss, and they wanted to believe in something, but when they look inside themselves they don't seem able to be able to really feel much of anything anymore.What happens if instead of getting baptized, they give up all hope and kill themselves?Have they had their one and only chance to accept the restored Gospel here?There are no general rules and unless you are the person in question we don't have enough information to make any kind of determination about this. Even the person in question may be off. So unless it comes directly by revelation it is probably best not to condemn or exonerate anyone. 1
Storm Rider Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 When has someone had their opportunity to accept the restored Gospel?What if they've been taught about it, they somehow managed to quite smoking, and they've had the missionaries over time after time, but they still have trouble believing it (or believing in anything)?Maybe they started investigating the Church after they suffered a loss, and they wanted to believe in something, but when they look inside themselves they don't seem able to be able to really feel much of anything anymore.What happens if instead of getting baptized, they give up all hope and kill themselves?Have they had their one and only chance to accept the restored Gospel here?I think it would be error to assume that hearing a message is the same as listening to a message and understanding. I also think that a witness of truth must be given. Each will have a multitiude of chances to hear the gospel and to accept it.
zerinus Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 When has someone had their opportunity to accept the restored Gospel?What if they've been taught about it, they somehow managed to quite smoking, and they've had the missionaries over time after time, but they still have trouble believing it (or believing in anything)?Maybe they started investigating the Church after they suffered a loss, and they wanted to believe in something, but when they look inside themselves they don't seem able to be able to really feel much of anything anymore.What happens if instead of getting baptized, they give up all hope and kill themselves?Have they had their one and only chance to accept the restored Gospel here?The Church put our a video a couple of years ago called "Finding Happiness". There are several versions of it, including foreign language versioins. Here are two English versions of it which may be of interest to you:
CV75 Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 What happens if instead of getting baptized, they give up all hope and kill themselves?Have they had their one and only chance to accept the restored Gospel here?Answer to Question 2: Not necessarilyAnswer to Question 1: They should have called a suicide hotline instead
Stormy Waters Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 Whether or not said person will be given another chance I don't know, but in the eyes of God suicide is a serious sin. So said person would have to undergo some kind of repentance for their sin.“Man did not create himself. He did not furnish his spirit with a human dwelling place. It is God who created man, both body and spirit. Man has no right, therefore, to destroy that which he had no agency in creating. They who do so are guilty of murder, self-murder it is true; but they are no more justified in killing themselves than they are in killing others. What difference of punishment there is for the two crimes, I do not know; but it is clear that no one can destroy so precious a gift as that of life without incurring a severe penalty.” (Gospel Truth, 2 vols., Salt Lake City: Zion’s Book Store, 1957, 1:30; italics added.)
Thinking Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 Where exactly do the scriptures meantion a 'one and only chance'?Alma 3432 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors. 33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. 34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. 35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.
Stormy Waters Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 Alma 3432 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.In light of this scripture, and combining that with the fact that they ended their life by committing what is considered by the church to be a serious sin, in the Mormon worldview there doesn't seem to be much hope for this person.
The Nehor Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 In light of this scripture, and combining that with the fact that they ended their life by committing what is considered by the church to be a serious sin, in the Mormon worldview there doesn't seem to be much hope for this person.Assuming they are in their right mind when they commit suicide.
inquiringmind Posted January 28, 2012 Author Posted January 28, 2012 Assuming they are in their right mind when they commit suicide.What does that mean?Some of the new atheists say that consciousness is an illusion.Would someone who believes that be in their right mind?What if they're not sure that anything (consciousness, joy, pain, pleasure, sorrow) is real?Would they be in their right minds?
The Nehor Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 What does that mean?In possession of their mental and moral faculties is probably as close to a good description as I can get. I doubt the person half-mad with grief or pain or whatever will probably not be judged as harshly as a cooly detached suicide because your favorite TV show was cancelled and a suicide note left behind stating this was done in protest. Then again the latter person may be crazier. So, who knows?Some of the new atheists say that consciousness is an illusion.Then I would ask them why they trust the conscious thought that led them to this conclusion.Would someone who believes that be in their right mind?What if they're not sure that anything (consciousness, joy, pain, pleasure, sorrow) is real?Would they be in their right minds?I'm not going to lay down rules. It's a bad habit for humans to try to judge hypothetical situations as if they were God. Too easy to carry it over to real life.
inquiringmind Posted January 29, 2012 Author Posted January 29, 2012 The Church put our a video a couple of years ago called "Finding Happiness". There are several versions of it, including foreign language versioins. Here are two English versions of it which may be of interest to you: Thank you.
Garden Girl Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 Heavenly Father and the Savior know what is in our mind and heart... they will know the depth of our understanding of the gospel and I believe we will be given an opportunity to gain a full understanding if we are lacking... we will have an opportunity to repent because of not fully understanding the import of our actions in relation to the gospel...They know our mental and emotional state and should a person commit suicide these things will be taken into consideration.Because I am widowed and alone with no children, I for one had planned on one day, when I was older, simply taking pills and laying down and going to sleep (after I had cleaned my house and fixed my hair of course). But then I reactivated in the Church and that plan became moot and I find I must endure to the end... Because I do have an understanding of the seriousness of such an action, and I do have a testimony of the gospel, so such an action would be very serious for me... but I believe I would still have a chance to repent, even if it took an eon or two...I forget the scripture, but paraphrasing here... we will be judged with the utmost of compassion and fairness possible.GG 1
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